Downtown from scratch?

[Lee Nellis]

I want to compile a list of places that have tried, or at least seriously considered trying, to create a new commercial center, a new pedestrian-oriented downtown, from scratch. I am aware of Plesant Hill, CA's project, BKM, but I am assuming there must have been others in CA and other rapidly growing states.

Thanks in advance for any info.

[michaelskis]

Cherry Hill Village in Canton Michigan.

[BKM]

Another California city that has done this-Windsor, CA (if you followed the previous thread).

San Ramon, CA is "discussing" this. No completed downtown yet, but you might profit from their discussion and planning exercises.

Hercules, CA is now building a town center along New Urbanist/Form Based Zoning principles. Good for an example of dense traditional housing as well.

The Mountain Home, CA project might be interesting (a huge PUD west of Tracy)

Lafayette, CA had a tiny town center and a long commercial strip. They are doing interesting things to address the lack of a "real," defined downtown. Quite a bit of new commercial and residential development along Mount Diablo Blvd.

[Suburb Repairman]

Southlake, TX has done a pretty good job with their's and they did not have any downtown whatsoever prior to the creation of Southlake Town Square. It is still developing, but I believe they recently added some brownstones and a movie theater. It is still geared somewhat toward the auto with the copious parking, but that is because it has become a bit of a draw for the entire DFW area. The parking is pretty tastefully done for the most part and tucked behind buildings. I think I have a partial site plan for it somewhere around here if you want it.

McKinney, TX, Keller, TX and Allen, TX have also done similar things as I recall, though their's involved some redevelopment of an existing tiny downtown. I have not visited these three, so I can't contribute much about their design.

Possibly Sugarland, TX would be another example, though I would probably stay away from DeLayville if at all possible. I have not visited this one either as I make it a policy not to stop in Sugarland whatsoever on my way to or from Htown.

I will second Hercules, CA as a good example of the NU concept and form codes applied to create a new downtown.

[donk]

Canadian examples

Dieppe, New Brunswick is working on this (site is in french)


Vaughan, Ontario has also made plans for a new downtown.

[nerudite]

I know of one here in Alberta. Strathcona County has adopted a new plan for a CBD in it's Urban Service Area. The plan is called "Centre in the Park" (the Park name is because the Urban Service Area is called Sherwood Park).

Strathcona County has a fairly comprehensive website for the project, with zoning, design guidelines etc. Link here.

Edit: I just looked through my APA conference materials from Denver. I saw a great presentations on work being done in Rowlett, Texas to create a downtown district in their burb.

[Eyes on the Street]

Century City in LA was all 20th Century Fox Backlot in the 1960s and now is a very large business center.

[DCBuff]

Lakewood, CO (outside Denver) and Rockville, CO (outside Washington, DC) are two suburban City's that are converting regional mall sites into mixed-use city centers. The one in CO is called Belmar and just won a CNU award. Both have a lot info on the internet, but try these sites

Rockville,MD
http://www.rockvillemd.gov/towncenter/index.html

Belmar
Belmar

Lakewood
Lakewood

Also try Stapleton
Stapleton

[Hceux]

I believe many of the old suburbs of Toronto are trying to develop its own downtown core. They are Mississauga, Scarborough, and North York. Each of them is based on a big shopping mall or a square...or a combo of each: Square One, Scarborough Town(e) Centre, and Mel Lastman Square, respectively.

[RichmondJake]

Following the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, the city of Santa Cruz CA rebuilt their downtown. Prior to the quake the Pacific Garden Mall was very pedestrian-friendly. I think the rebuild is even better--and they dropped the "Garden Mall" tag, too.

[AubieTurtle]

Isn't the new "downtown" at Southlake, TX really more of a lifestyle center? I believe I was there a couple of years ago when consulting for Travelocity. I remember having good chinese food and thinking the building quality was better than average but the parking was excessive. For a lifestyle center, it was above par but as a downtown, well, not so much.

Of course I could be confusing it with a similar development in Grapevine or another similar close by town in the DFW metroplex.

[PennPlanner]

Isn't American,


but, Berlin has rebuilt its downtown from scratch. Very impressive.

[Kovanovich]

Originally posted by AubieTurtle

Isn't the new "downtown" at Southlake, TX really more of a lifestyle center? I believe I was there a couple of years ago when consulting for Travelocity. I remember having good chinese food and thinking the building quality was better than average but the parking was excessive. For a lifestyle center, it was above par but as a downtown, well, not so much.

Of course I could be confusing it with a similar development in Grapevine or another similar close by town in the DFW metroplex.

This is an important difference. It is presumptuous of me to interpret the original question, but I don't think that Lee Nellis was interested in the so-called lifestyle center, but rather something that is a recognizable downtown. I think that a real downtown necessarily includes civic and governmental buildings and facilities, though I remain open to the possibility that you could conceivably have a downtown without these. A true downtown also ought to be more than just a destination site of restaurants and coffee shops (in other words, it should include dry cleaners, barber shop, post office, and thus probably also housing in close proximity). Most lifestyle centers lack a city hall or other government buildings, as well as this sort of every-day shopping. It's hard to consider Belmar in Lakewood to be downtown, since city hall isn't there. Maybe Rockville will eventually fit this description. Another good example of what is not a new downtown is Crocker Park in Westlake (Ohio):

www.crockerpark.com

I read in the Cleveland Plain Dealer that the developer approached the Westlake municipal government about relocating the city government to Crocker Park and was rebuffed. So, as it stands, it's really just an upscale outdoor shopping mall, a new way for the buying classes to spend their money, even though it does also include (very expensive) housing. And it will probably only serve to further drain the central city and inner suburbs of wealth and tax revenue.

[BKM]

Originally posted by Eyes on the Street

Century City in LA was all 20th Century Fox Backlot in the 1960s and now is a very large business center.

Does anyone actually WALK anywhere in Century City? It's pretty much isolated "towers in the park" type development? (Very dense, glitzy and classy, but still...)?????

Originally posted by RichmondJake

Following the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, the city of Santa Cruz CA rebuilt their downtown. Prior to the quake the Pacific Garden Mall was very pedestrian-friendly. I think the rebuild is even better--and they dropped the "Garden Mall" tag, too.

Except the damn hippies and their pit bulls and bongo cirtcles mean the City passed an ordinance forbidding you from walking your dogs on Pacific Avenue!!11

[Luca]

Always looked to me like an alternative to Downtown KC.

[DCBuff]

[QUOTE=Kovanovich] It's hard to consider Belmar in Lakewood to be downtown, since city hall isn't there.

City Hall and Civic Center are located across the street from Belmar. In the cities 1990s attempt at creating a downtown. I understand your point. Belmar is very mall like, but the city refer to it as their "new downtown."

[Suburb Repairman]

Originally posted by Kovanovich

This is an important difference. It is presumptuous of me to interpret the original question, but I don't think that Lee Nellis was interested in the so-called lifestyle center, but rather something that is a recognizable downtown. I think that a real downtown necessarily includes civic and governmental buildings and facilities, though I remain open to the possibility that you could conceivably have a downtown without these. A true downtown also ought to be more than just a destination site of restaurants and coffee shops (in other words, it should include dry cleaners, barber shop, post office, and thus probably also housing in close proximity). Most lifestyle centers lack a city hall or other government buildings, as well as this sort of every-day shopping. .

This is why a group Southlake as a new downtown rather than a lifestyle center. It has at least three civic buildings and about a half dozen civic functions located in the buildings (library, post office, etc.). Also, there was absolutely no discernable center to Southlake prior--it was one of those typical north Dallas blobs of houses. It has significant, moderate density (brownstones and townhouses) residential within a couple of blocks that is incorporated into the development. When I walked the whole development I couldn't think of any uses I would frequently use that were missing. My one major criticism of it is that it's somewhat overparked and uses surface rather than structures.

[japrovo]

Originally posted by Lee Nellis

I want to compile a list of places that have tried, or at least seriously considered trying, to create a new commercial center, a new pedestrian-oriented downtown, from scratch. I am aware of Plesant Hill, CA's project, BKM, but I am assuming there must have been others in CA and other rapidly growing states.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Look at Beaverton Oregon's Round....mixed use, tod on the light rail line. They had a multi- year struggle to get financing secured after one of the city's original partners went bust. A half finsihed structure sat empty for a number of years. Its quite a story and I think folks at the city, which grew up rather rapidly in Portland's inner suburbs without a real downtown (the city hall is behind an auto delearship), are pretty pleased by the results and are probably very happy to talk about it.

http://www.beavertonround.com/pages/Home.html

[Big Owl]

The Town of Cary, NC has a plan for its downtown that hasn't kept pace with the growth of the city and is the CBD is same size as it was in the 1960s when it has 1000 in population. It is now pushing 100,000. here is a link to the plan .

[jmello]

Both Middletown and Portsmouth, Rhode Island have recent plans for developing new downtowns in areas now characterized by sprawl and very busy four-lane roads. These two towns are adjacent and share Aquidneck Island with Newport, RI. West Main Road in Middletown is the RI poster child for all that is wrong with sprawl and autocentric development and is frequently used as a worst case scenario at community planning charrettes and workshops.

See:

http://www.ncarchitects.com/town%20c...ctr%20page.htm

http://www.portsmouthri.com/Otherdoc...from%20TP1.pdf

[planner?]

I'm reading a book about Disney's attempt to build a town (including a dntn) at Celebration, FL, and on another note, I found it very strage the last time I went through Prescott Valley, AZ, a city of master planned communitites, and gated subdivisions was trying to build a DNTN. I beleive that one of the New Urbanist firms had the contract. . .

[geobandito]

A good example of what not to do (and what planning was like in the 70s) comes from my hometown - Xenia, Ohio (county seat, population about 25,000). A lot of the CBD and many neighborhoods were destroyed by a tornado in 1974 (and 32 people were killed).

Instead of trying to save what older buildings in the downtown that they could, they knocked down almost everything. So now the CBD consists of the big courthouse, a couple blocks of two-story brick storefronts, and - a huge strip mall! With a Kmart and everything. It's lovely. Of course, now there's a WalMart on the outskirts and not much is going on downtown anyway.

[Wulf9]

I agree with previous responses. Windsor CA is a good example of a "downtown" built from scratch. They have a single builder (Orin Thiessen) who conceived of, designed, and built the buildings -- and continues to build his new quaint buildings througout Windsor.

Santa Cruz is a good example of a downtown rebuilt as a "downtown" after tearing out all of their historic buildings. (Santa Cruz downtown NR district got de-listed because of the zeal with which the city fathers tore out their history in order to do a "downtown."

[BKM]

Originally posted by Wulf9

I agree with previous responses. Windsor CA is a good example of a "downtown" built from scratch. They have a single builder (Orin Thiessen) who conceived of, designed, and built the buildings -- and continues to build his new quaint buildings througout Windsor.

Santa Cruz is a good example of a downtown rebuilt as a "downtown" after tearing out all of their historic buildings. (Santa Cruz downtown NR district got de-listed because of the zeal with which the city fathers tore out their history in order to do a "downtown."

Well....In defense of Santa Cruz, there are still quite a few nice pre-war buildings left, and it wasn't the zeal of the city fathers, it was good ol' Mr. Ring of Fire (Loma Prieta) that knocked almost everything down

I visited Santa Cruz after the earthquake, and it was pretty eerie.

[jread]

If I remember correctly, The Woodlands, TX is also creating a downtown area.