Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 53

Thread: More angry: liberals or conservatives?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Land of Confusion
    Posts
    3,736

    More angry: liberals or conservatives?

    In another thread TexanOkie remarked that there are a lot of pissed off white liberals in Austin, TX. I've never been to Austin, but I certainly know the type quite well having grown up in western Massachusetts, a veritable bastion of angry white liberalism where the Republican Party is universally considered the root of all evil and social injustice. Maybe not quite, but there are enough people there who believe that America essentially operates as a vast right-wing conspiracy, and certainly more so with Bush in office. I’ve often observed liberal rage manifesting itself at the local level, where public officials are alternatively accused of being idiots or too corrupted by business interests to serve the common good. Ironically, liberals look to government to solve all their problems, but they seem to completely distrust government at the same time. Liberals love to accuse people of hypocrisy, probably only secondly to accusing people of being racist/prejudiced. Then there is the smugness and the “holier than thou” attitude embodied by such liberals as James Howard Kunstler, who basically says most American are too stupid to make the proper choices in their lives because we do things like live in suburbs and ride jet-skis and motorbikes.

    Liberal anger can be in good part explained, I think, by defeat. The left has failed to win national elections and thus has failed to establish a liberal governing strategy at the national level. Liberals have not just lost, they’ve been crushed by the GOP ever since Reagan launched the modern conservative movement, which has led to the increased marginalization of liberal ideas. "Liberal", for much of the late 20th century, became a slur that implied you were weak, questionably patriotic, morally bankrupt, and certainly couldn't be trusted with taxpayer money. Wearing such a label, its no wonder why a lot of self-proclaimed liberals are so pissed.

    On the flip side, conservatives aren't winning any congeniality awards. Conservative talk radio riles up listeners with daily diatribes about convoluted liberal plots, vile-mouthed Ann Coulter straight up calls John Edwards a "faggot" (and makes no apology for it), and religious right leaders blame abortionists for 9-11. Sarah Palin appeals to Joe Six-Pack (probably pissed off in his own right) with divisive rhetoric about "real Americans", presumably as opposed to those un-American liberals who are going to vote for Obama. Even at the heights of its power, the conservative movement seems to view itself as an underdog warrior fighting a culture war against the 1960s. And to sustain such a fight you need to stay pissed off.

    As all this anger on both sides boils over as we approach election day, who do you think is more pissed and why? Liberals or conservatives?

  2. #2
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
    Registered
    May 2004
    Location
    Snarkville
    Posts
    6,587
    I don't know about liberals or conservatives, but that Maister guy is pretty angry

  3. #3
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    6,410
    I think the average "conservative" voter is more angry on an everyday basis. Angry that the government intrudes upon their life by taxing them and taking away their guns. Angry at those Muslims who might disrupt their way of life. Angry that their view on abortion is not supported by a majority in this country.

    That being said, i think "liberal" voters can reach higher levels of anger for specific time periods, such as a national election.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
    Registered
    May 2004
    Location
    Snarkville
    Posts
    6,587
    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    I think the average "conservative" voter is more angry on an everyday basis. Angry that the government intrudes upon their life by taxing them and taking away their guns. Angry at those Muslims who might disrupt their way of life. Angry that their view on abortion is not supported by a majority in this country.
    .
    Don't forget bitter. Those small town conservatives are bitter.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Plus PlannerGirl's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Va
    Posts
    4,604
    Honestly I think its pretty even as we as a people are angry right now about a lot of things and pretty much all of it pointing back at ourselves the election/politics is just one symptom of the overall problem.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

    Remember this motto to live by: "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO- HOO what a ride!'"

  6. #6
    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2005
    Location
    in a meeting
    Posts
    8,372

    as if!

    I demand a poll on this, goddammit!

  7. #7
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    New Town
    Posts
    3,780
    I think there may be a difference in the kind of anger different ends of the political spectrum are experiencing.

    Liberals seem to be more generally angry about the state of the union and others' reluctance to accept a new direction for change. They seem angry and frustrated at conservatives that are more reluctant to let go of the past and the important, worldview-shaping role past events have played in getting us to this point in time. My feeling is that many of these folks are younger (in age or at heart) and perhaps their impatience for change is in part fueling frustrations and anger. Contrast this with someone who lived through WWII and, even if they are upset with Bush, see him as a blip on the radar in terms of what the Right has done for the country. These folks may take more of a "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach as they resist what they see as sudden change.

    There are also liberals (or at least Obama supporters) that represent the generally disenfranchised in this country. Especially among minority groups that have, for many generations, remained at the lower end of the economic spectrum, I think the idea of a New Way forward is very attractive. What do they have to lose? In the current structure, they have only remained poor or gotten even poorer.

    Conservatives seem to, imho, be more angry in a fearful way (hey, just my opinion, don't flame me). Fear of terrorism, of socialism, of "those people" (could be Muslims, could be Mexicans) screwing everything up. Fearful, I think, of big change. My personal view on this is that many conservatives are also "traditionalist" and are wary/fearful of dramatic changes in the make-up/course of society. That we are on the verge of some big changes in many areas is, perhaps, unsettling to some. As I mentioned above, many older conservatives may feel apprehensive and defensive about what they perceive as rushing into changes.

    This fits McCain well, I think, as he is firmly a product of the Cold War and what I perceive of as a waning model of society, foreign relations, energy, etc. His trumpeting fears about socialism and terrorism, his reluctance to fully embrace alternative models of energy production, a health care plan that is much less dramatic a change to what we currently have, a tax plan that reflects current and historical Republican trends, an approach to foreign relations and diplomacy that reflects more a Cold War, Superpower model that, imho, is not flying so well these days, and so on. I'm trying not make these value judgments, though I am sure my bias shows. But I do think McCain is more oriented toward the past (trying to claim Reagan's mantle, for example) and trying to reclaim/bolster effective strategies from our history whereas Obama seems more forward-looking and seeking to reconceptualize the staid approaches with new ideas and concepts.

    In many ways I see this election as a contest between the current ways of doing things (and I don't mean the Bush Administration, but the general trend and approach to the big issues that have prevailed since WWII) and a desire for rethinking and restructuring our approaches to vexing problems. Its not just old people against young people, though, as many young folks are wary of big changes and many old people feel its time for these big changes.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  8. #8
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,689
    I think anger is highest on both sides where there are few on the "other" side. For example, Berkeley is full of angry liberals the likes of which most of you have probably never seen. On the flip side, I have a friend who grew up in the backwoods of West Virginia, who tells me that most people have signs up around their house saying things like "Liberals will be shot on sight" (only half joking, of course).
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  9. #9
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    17,539
    Off-topic:
    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I don't know about liberals or conservatives, but that Maister guy is pretty angry
    Damn straight, Skippy!

    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian
    I demand a poll on this, goddammit!
    And now you know why I am.


    I'm strongly inclined to agree with wahday's analysis. I'm rather skeptical, though, in believing claims that obama is going to usher in significant changes in the Way We Do Things (not that he won't try, just that I doubt his prospects of success - too many forces in opposition)

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Fat Cat's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Rockwood, MI
    Posts
    1,398

    Fat Cat

    Regardless it does provide a lot of fodder for comedians

  11. #11
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    2,904
    In all of travels throughout the United States (I've been to/through over 35 states in all regions of the country minus the Pacific Northwest), the places where I've noticed to be more angry at life (not necessarily concerning politics) and rude tend to be in more liberal areas. Notable exceptions are New York City during times of crisis and Los Angeles during everyday living.

    For example: driving. Yes, road rage happens everywhere, and nobody anywhere knows how to drive. However, I've never gotten honked at in places like Oklahoma City, Dallas, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Tampa, Kansas City, San Diego as I have in places like Austin, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, DC. Everyone's on edge and has absolutely no patience about anything. Is your life that bad that you honk at me for accelerating 1/2 second later than you would have liked?

    Again, that might not have anything to do with politics. But it is odd that similarly sized cities/metro areas have such different cultures (even in similar geographic regions). Austin vs. Fort Worth is a good example. So is Minneapolis vs. Kansas City. Anywho, perhaps I'm just blowing smoke.

    Anger is different, as wahday noted: liberals are frustrated at lack of what they perceive as progress, especially in political matters. Conservatives are afraid of government obtrusion where they perceive it does not belong. The odd thing is that the Founding Fathers felt the same way, and incorporated both provisions into our country's founding documents (and yes, they fought about it nearly as much as we do).

  12. #12
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    New Town
    Posts
    3,780
    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    [ot]I'm strongly inclined to agree with wahday's analysis. I'm rather skeptical, though, in believing claims that obama is going to usher in significant changes in the Way We Do Things (not that he won't try, just that I doubt his prospects of success - too many forces in opposition)
    I'm not sure how it will play out, either. Though a 60 percent Dem majority would make these changes more likely. I think the economy and how it trickles down to face peoples' daily lives will have a big impact on what this nation is willing to try. But I do think those sentiments about change is what is motivating and exciting many Liberals these days.

    I do think Foreign Policy is likely to change dramatically, though. I have seen and read some very interesting info about how Obama and his advisers have approached the rapidly changing face of international relations and I think his approach is very much what is needed these days.

    Among other sources, there was a great Frontline that traced both candidates' paths from 2000 to today. It as very well done and informative and covered all the major policy areas: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice2008/
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  13. #13
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    The Fox Valley
    Posts
    4,621
    Blog entries
    1
    Well, at a debate of college students the other night, an extremely liberal member of the audience challenged one of us Republicans to a fight when one of us Republicans said spreading the wealth was the equivalent of Socialism and Joseph Stalin. Whenever you prove the liberals wrong, they always resort to violence when they can't come up with anything better. I've seen this time and again. I'd never resort to violence like that...it's so childish.

    Liberals are so hypocritcal. They claim to be all peace and love, but if you really look at them at these anti-war rallies, they're throwing rocks at people and setting things on fire. Republicans generally aren't known for protesting...and even when they are, they don't do so in such a violent and angry manner.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  14. #14
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    17,539
    Oh, and let me add I think BOTH sides get equally irked when confronted with blanket generalizations. It does little to encourage mutual understanding or even civil discourse.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    West Valley, AZ
    Posts
    3,894
    I think both sides are angry and that both sides have extreme opinionated individuals who become the unfortunate spokesperson for their views.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    8,991
    Blog entries
    2
    I get angry that the other side (to me) is not as good, nor as smart as me.

    The other side gets angry at my elitism.

    ...and so we dance...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  17. #17
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    2,904
    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    ...(to me)...
    And that one little qualification means there's still hope for you yet, zman...

  18. #18
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    In the Second Linel
    Posts
    5,807
    Blog entries
    6
    Why are there so many conservative talking heads on the air waves and so few liberal talking heads?

    I think it is because conservatives, as a rule, are more angry and love to wallow in their anger and disgust. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and those guys make careers out of having perpetual snit-fests.

    O'Reilly is a mean humorless s.ob. Keith Oberman is just as mean but he is more disarmingly snarky about it.

    I think a lot of liberals and conservatives are p*ssed off.

    Liberals are like cats, in that they like to bury their s**t, and conservatives are more like dogs because they enjoy rolling around in it.
    Last edited by otterpop; 29 Oct 2008 at 6:33 PM.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  19. #19
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2007
    Location
    the old north state
    Posts
    2,665
    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    I think both sides are angry and that both sides have extreme opinionated individuals who become the unfortunate spokesperson for their views.
    So true! I think each side is painted with the image of the extreme of that party. Why would the media want to cover someone who is rational, calm and speaks intelligently about the issues!
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  20. #20
    Cyburbian safege's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Golden Valley MN
    Posts
    712
    All of which is interesting if you consider that many States are electing moderates. Moderates are not angry, and seem quite likable by comparison.

    Then they get elected and pull the agenda to the center. Right where I like it.

    signed,
    An elitist moderate
    Psychotics are consistently inconsistent. The essence of sanity is to be inconsistently inconsistent.
    -Larry Wall

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
    Registered
    Sep 1999
    Location
    400 miles from Orlando
    Posts
    13,743
    I sit on the liberal/conservative "fence" so I'm not angry. I can't say that either candidate will be awful, or that any one party in control will be awful. I am pretty much tired of having to go "liberal" or "conservative" when I don't identify with either.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    2,904
    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    Why are there so many conservative talking heads on the air waves and so few liberal talking heads?

    I think it is because conservatives, as a rule, are more angry and love to wallow in their anger and disgust. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and those guys make careers out of having perpetual snit-fests.

    O'Reilly is a mean humorless s.ob. Keith Oberman is just as mean but he is more disarmingly snarky about it.
    Liberal talking heads have tried to break into the mix, but haven't found success in ratings and have either tanked or moved to a much more friendly medium like TV (i.e. Rachel Maddow).

    Have you ever listened to Limbaugh or watched O'Reilly aside from small soundbites? Limbaugh has a great sense of humor, and his adopted persona for his radio show is part of it. O'Reilly is humorous, but much more good-natured about it (his Obama interview and his recent guest appearance on The View would be a good examples).

    If you're going to talk about conservative talking heads with no or little humor, you need to look at Sean Hannity or Michael Savage. I think Olbermann is just mean and snide. He takes himself and life way too seriously (which is the same problem I have with Hannity and Savage, and to a lesser degree and only at certain times, O'Reilly).

  23. #23
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    8,991
    Blog entries
    2
    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Liberal talking heads have tried to break into the mix, but haven't found success in ratings and have either tanked or moved to a much more friendly medium like TV (i.e. Rachel Maddow).
    Interesting. I have listened to number of Liberal talking heads on the AM dial for a couple years now, including Rachel Maddow who still comes on the radio late at night. These were the same people and haven't "tanked".
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  24. #24
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    2,904
    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    Interesting. I have listened to number of Liberal talking heads on the AM dial for a couple years now, including Rachel Maddow who still comes on the radio late at night. These were the same people and haven't "tanked".
    I used to listen to Rachel Maddow on Air America here in Austin until they left the market. Hasn't Air America either filed for bankruptcy protection or reduced their market share to practically nil? Aside from a couple of local programs, it's hard to find a liberal talk show in Austin, which is surprising to me considering Austin and Travis County in general is probably about 60-65% Democratic (which, for Texas, is huge, especially considering that the Libertarians also take about 10-15% of the share of the population). Anywho, point is, liberal talking heads on the radio may still be broadcasting, but they're broadcasting to a statistically insignificant portion of the population. The same cannot be said about conservative radio programs.

  25. #25
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    8,991
    Blog entries
    2
    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    I used to listen to Rachel Maddow on Air America here in Austin until they left the market. Hasn't Air America either filed for bankruptcy protection or reduced their market share to practically nil? Aside from a couple of local programs, it's hard to find a liberal talk show in Austin, which is surprising to me considering Austin and Travis County in general is probably about 60-65% Democratic (which, for Texas, is huge, especially considering that the Libertarians also take about 10-15% of the share of the population). Anywho, point is, liberal talking heads on the radio may still be broadcasting, but they're broadcasting to a statistically insignificant portion of the population. The same cannot be said about conservative radio programs.
    Our liberal talk station (from Boulder no less ) used to run the Air America schedule during its day, but as Air America folded (or lumbered quietly into the night) am760 kept the same people on as they went to different broadcasters. Now the lineup is bookended with locals guys and national hosts (Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartman) are in the middle during the day.

    Only typing this because Liberal talk radio is still alive and well while many (not picking on you personally, texanokie) try to dispell and downgrade its influence. The influence is brings, admittedly is not as large as the conservative talk machine out there... which is a force and $$ maker in AM Radio.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 ... LastLast

More at Cyburbia

  1. Replies: 15
    Last post: 30 Jul 2010, 11:38 AM
  2. How Angry Is Your City?
    Cities and Places
    Replies: 27
    Last post: 11 Oct 2006, 10:41 AM
  3. Are all planners liberals?
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 71
    Last post: 29 Jun 2005, 7:21 PM
  4. Is this how LIBERALS do business?
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 5
    Last post: 16 Apr 2004, 11:11 AM
  5. Replies: 14
    Last post: 15 Nov 2002, 4:19 PM