Planning trip to Germany

[hipp5]

Hello everyone,

My Masters of Planning class is taking its international field trip to the Netherlands and Germany this year. I am in charge of planning the Germany end of things. However, I'm pretty overwhelmed at the moment with all the possibilities, and I'd like your help. I suspect some of you probably have some planning experience in Germany.

First, some details:
- Going at Christmas break.
- Probably be spending about 10 days in Germany.
- Cheaper means more people can afford to come.
- Going to keep it to the south end of the country.
- Looking for a mix of planning-related activities, and just fun stuff.

I currently have my eye on Frankfurt, Freiburg, and Munich as they make a pretty convenient line of travel. However, I'm pretty lost of what to do when we're there. Sooo...
- What should we see?
- Who should I contact?
- Are there any big projects going on that would be interesting?
- I don't know much about historic planning. Are there any historic planning issues we could look at?

Any thoughts you have would be great.

[mgk920]

I would think that the most interesting, from a planning perspective, would be to see how the major former East German cities are making their transition from Communism to capitalism after 20 or so years, as well as how the various German cities handled/are handling their reconstruction from the destruction of WWII, especially the works now in progress in Dresden.

The biggest projects that I am aware of right now in Germany involve infrastructure improvements (new and upgraded highways/autobahns, especially in the former DDR, and true high-speed intercity rail passenger lines) and the now in full-swing WWII rebuild of central Dresden.

As for a pure planning perspective, I would just take copious notes on the various cities that you visit and note their similarities and differences from similar-sized ones here in North America, what works and doesn't, etc.

Good luck!

Mike

[ofos]

I recommend Rothenburg ob der Tauber. It's gotten touristy over the years (what hasn't?) but it is the best preserved walled city in Germany and was larger than Frankfurt and Munich in it's day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothenburg_ob_der_Tauber

[TerraSapient]

A fellow graduate student I studied with wrote his thesis on how architectural components of public buildings and urban design changed and was influenced by the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of communism in East Berlin. He lived in Berlin for a few months while researching. I have never been to Germany, but he was able to see a lot, learn a lot, and even managed to get a guided tour of the city from a city planner. Some amazing research and photographs resulted.

[RPfresh]

As you may know, Freiburg is a world capital of bike-friendly cities. Do some riding around and put a little of that subject into your trip if you haven't yet.

[FueledByRamen]

Originally posted by ofos

I recommend Rothenburg ob der Tauber. It's gotten touristy over the years (what hasn't?) but it is the best preserved walled city in Germany and was larger than Frankfurt and Munich in it's day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothenburg_ob_der_Tauber

I went to Germany about a month ago and would also recommend Rothenburg odT (especially around Christmas). Munich was fun, but not a very pretty city (remember that most of it was destroyed in WW2). Of course, the beer halls and beer gardens alone make going there worth it! I also went to Nuremburg, which I'd probably skip if I was planning the trip over.

[ColoGI]

Originally posted by FueledByRamen

I went to Germany about a month ago and would also recommend Rothenburg odT (especially around Christmas). Munich was fun, but not a very pretty city (remember that most of it was destroyed in WW2). Of course, the beer halls and beer gardens alone make going there worth it! I also went to Nuremburg, which I'd probably skip if I was planning the trip over.

I used to live about 45 minutes from Rothenburg. At Christmas it can't be beat by many things if you like being bombarded by Christmas.

Bavaria IMHO is the best state in Germany and you may look at south of Munich toward the Alps and maybe Garmisch & skip Frankfurt/Nurnberg/Wurzburg. Do not do a concentration camp on such a trip. If you do Frankfurt, not the most attractive city but you can think like a planner there, Stuttgart is similar in appearance but more manageable and closer to Munich. Freiburg and Black Forest are certainly fine, and Heidelberg might work into the trip. Not sure why you aren't looking at Berlin, as the train ride from, say, Frankfurt is not that long and the scenery along the way is nice and the contrast between old and new and how they are trying to make it all work since the wall came down should be an eye-opener for planning practice.

[hipp5]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I'm definitely going to add Rothenburg obT to the itinerary as a day trip from Frankfurt; it should be a good lesson in planning around history and the pros/cons of tourism.

I really want to get to East Germany, but I can't figure out how it could be done. I checked my calender again and we actually only have 6 full days in Germany. Doing East Germany would mean skipping Freiburg which I don't really want to do. Also, a lot of people on the trip have already been to Germany, and likely have seen Berlin but not the south.

Will doing both Frankfurt and Munich be too similar? What specific aspects of each city should we be looking at? I image post-war reconstruction in Munich will be interesting. I also want to do Munich so that we can do a day trip to Neuschwanstein Castle.

Also, does anyone have recommended people/departments I should contact? Would it be better to talk to planning departments, universities, or private firms?

Thanks again for the help!

[der Bebauungsplan]

I've been to Germany about a dozen times over the past decade. If you ask me I think some of the best planning "stories" are in the former East especially Berlin & Dresden.

If you're traveling with a group of planners I've found the local planning staff eager to meet with peers from the U.S. to show off "their" projects. Contact the planning department in the city you're heading to well in advance - it works better if the person making the first contact is fluent in German. You can get the contact info off the web... look for "Amt für Planen" or "Stadtplanungamt"

[ofos]

If you're in Munich, there is also Nymphenburg Palace (Schloss Nymphenburg) that you might consider visiting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymphenburg_Palace

If you do the day trip to Neuschwanstein, also consider visiting Schloss Hohenschwangau located in the same area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohenschwangau_Castle

[skyfire]

I lived in Germany for 4 years earlier this decade. Didn't do any planning there, but traveled with the eyes of a planner.

Of the three cities you are considering, to me Frankfurt has a much more modern feel than Munich and Freiburg. Freiberg is smaller, Munich has a larger restored/preserved historic core than Frankfurt does. For a city in the region with a different plan, consider Karlsruhe, which was founded in the early 18th century, and has a radial design of its core.

I also agree that for looking at Berlin has some of the best recent planning projects. For example they have very new train station and are building a new airport.

Maybe you should make a list of potential cities to visit and then look into what planning departments in those cities are most welcoming of an American student group to narrow down where you end up? For example, Heidelberg, where there is a large US Army presence, actually has a significant English website where you can find their Master Plan in English. http://www.heidelberg.de/servlet/PB/...436/index.html On this page upper right is a link to the .pdf file. Stuttgart also still has a large U.S. facility.

p.s. What is the timing of your trip? If you are in Germany before Christmas, there are great downtown Christmas-markets in most of the big cities.

[ColoGI]

Originally posted by skyfire

p.s. What is the timing of your trip? If you are in Germany before Christmas, there are great downtown Christmas-markets in most of the big cities.

This is an excellent point, as IMHO Rothenburg is worth about three hours, as the Christmas onslaught can be tolerated only so long, esp if you go on a weekend (YMMV). If you do go from Frankfurt, you should drive the road along the Main River and see those small towns and the fests they may have (on a Friday, say, and maybe from Wurzburg - Ochsenfurt and a bit east), which may reinforce what elements of design are important for various aspects of arranging the built environment.

I think Frankfurt and Munich are dissimilar and not a repeat.

[hipp5]

Once again, thanks for all the replies everyone. I'm still mulling over how I might get East Germany to work out.

Someone mentioned looking for cities welcoming to American student groups. I'm not sure if this makes a difference in how we'll be viewed by Germans, but we're a Canadian school.

As for language... I'm certianly not fluent in German. However, I do know enought that I should be able to communicate through email if I take my time.

Another question for everyone: what's the best way to get around? I'm thinking the Bahn system will probably be sufficient for us, but my co-planner thinks we should rent cars. There'll probably be 10 or 12 of us.

[ColoGI]

Originally posted by hipp5

Another question for everyone: what's the best way to get around? I'm thinking the Bahn system will probably be sufficient for us, but my co-planner thinks we should rent cars. There'll probably be 10 or 12 of us.

Gas is very expensive. When I lived there and visited another city for a multi-day trip, I rarely took my car. The train system is very efficient, comfortable, extensive, basically the opposite of US and Canada. From the Bahnhofs you can usu get efficient, comfortable, extensive public transportation to pretty much where you want to go, and maybe 15-20 minute walk to anywhere else. Did I mention the non-auto transportation is efficient, comfortable, extensive?

If you wish to rent something for a day, do it right and rent something with some horsepower and let 'er rip, but beware that around the big cities the traffic on the autobahns during rush hour is terrible, and the radio used to state how many kilometers was the stau (backup/congestion). Each large city does this. The secondary highways used to be very nice and smooth and set up very well for driving.

[der Bebauungsplan]

My apologies for being presumptuous...Canadians would be welcomed as well.

I concur with ColoGI about the train being a better way to get around. Both gasoline and car rentals are NOT cheap and given the number of people you said you're traveling with comfort may require several vehicles.

If you're sticking with mid to large sized cities DB is the way to go

[mgk920]

If you have a larger group, it might be cheaper to go the car rental route.

Mike