Rules of Usage: The English Language

[Wannaplan?]

Can some one who speaks English help out a poor soul?

How come the more I read, the more I come across words like roofs? I always thought it was rooves. I mean, I learned that in first grade over 20 years ago. What happened? Also, why is, "The couple thought they had an historic house, but their parcel was not included as part of the historic district when it was formed over 15 years ago." Huh? I thought the hard H at the beginning of historic neccessitated the use of a and not an. I don't go around saying, "My gay uncle lives with his life-partner in an istoric house on the south side of town." Historic is still historic, right? I don't go around saying < istoric >. Maybe I should? Have the rules changed on this one, too? Or is it a spell-checker thing? I'm so confused!!

[el Guapo]

I am the most clueless here at Cyburbia when it comes to the correct usage of the English language. Recently, I have been going to my vintage 1980's copy of Strunk and White's - The Elements of Style daily for even the most minor things.

On a related question, I have a document that I would like to have proofed and edited? Can anyone suggest a fair wage for an English major graduate student to whip some red pain upon my paper? Any of you interested in some jack for grammar?

[Cardinal]

Wanigas?, you are correct in your interpretation. "A" is used in front of a "hard" H, and "an" is used in front of a "soft" H. I have seen both used incorrectly, and think it may be part of a trend to simplify the language - remember, people are now encouraged to write to to the level of a grade school audience.

I believe your example of rooves is another instance of the same trend. Rather than commit to remembering the exceptional case, people would prefer to apply a standard rule to making a plural. "Insure" and "ensure" is one that always gets me. Since people are unsure of which word to use, "insure" has begun to be accepted in either circumstance.

Our language is continuing to evolve. Criticize Dan Quaile if you will, but "potatoe" was once an accepted spelling. It is now archaic. "Ensure" and "rooves" are similarly falling out of use. You and I are becoming archaic. El Guapo may be more atavistic.

[Planderella]

Same thing with "accept" and "except" or "effect" and "affect." It gets under my skin to see these words used in the wrong context.

I think that the digital evolution may be one of the reasons that many grammar rules have become archaic. With the rise of bulletin boards, instant messaging and chat rooms, email, etc., not many are too inclined to follow correct usuage.

[Wannaplan?]

Yeah, I like the exceptional cases. I like words like rooves and hooves. Roofs and hoofs do not have any pizazz at all!!

What about booth? Isn't the plural boothes? Or is it just booths?

Ever read any of Steven Pinker's books? He says great things about language and how our brains are organized. If you love language, I suggest you pick up one of his books.

[SW MI Planner]

Originally posted by Cardinal
Wanigas?, you are correct in your interpretation. "A" is used in front of a "hard" H, and "an" is used in front of a "soft" H.

I didn't even know you were supposed to put AN in front of any H's. I thought AN went only in front of words starting with vowels. And what is the difference between a hard H and a soft H. Examples please?

And I also never heard of rooves.

Where the heck have I been? Edited to add that I thought I was pretty good with grammar, but apparently not!

[Tom R]

The plural of roof is roofs. Dictionary.com says so. I've heard of "rooves" and there may be a dim dark origin to it. But I think it is just a matter of confusion with English plurals ie. hoof - hooves. It could also be a local coloquialism. I think the confusion with "a" vs. "an" historic house is that the "h" in this case is a weak sound. It is just aspirated meaning that the vocal cords are not used. It tends to be dropped such as in the Cockney accent. The word "herb" (the plant) is similar. I was taught that the "h" was silent but I've heard it pronounced like the name. (ie. Tarlick) I think the change from "a" to "an" developed as an easier way of pronounciation when the vowell "a" comes directly before a word starting with another vowell. A apple is harder to say than an apple.

[donk]

I always have to check the dictionary for affect vs effect and ensure vs insure. I try not to use them so I don't use them improperly.

On the hooves thing. I think the spelling may also go to pronounciation. hard H uh ve s (kind of like cloves)

[Tom R]

Give me an example of a word with a hard "H."

[Planderella]

Originally posted by Tom R
Give me an example of a word with a hard "H."

You just gave yourself an example with "hard." There's also "home," "house," "horse, "handle".....

[Tom R]

Originally posted by Planderella
You just gave yourself an example with "hard." There's also "home," "house," "horse, "handle".....

Right, and in each example the "H" is pronounced the same as in history.

[Rem]

Originally posted by Tom R
The plural of roof is roofs.

I agree with Tom R. I once researched this for a light industry development control plan and despite expecting it to be rooves, it is definitely roofs in English and Australian usage.

[el Guapo]

Originally posted by Tom R
Give me an example of a word with a hard "H."

Hydrogen Bomb

[Michele Zone]

Originally posted by el Guapo

On a related question, I have a document that I would like to have proofed and edited? Can anyone suggest a fair wage for an English major graduate student to whip some red pain upon my paper? Any of you interested in some jack for grammar?

If you are serious, hey, I am for hire.

(If you want my credentials: my sister, who has a degree in journalism used to edit my high school and college papers and taught me a great deal of what I know about the technical side of writing. I have served as editor on a number of group projects for school. I quit asking my sister to proof and edit my papers some time ago, except for really difficult items. I ran one past her last fall and she had no suggestions to make and said, instead, "You may go now, Grasshopper" and pronouced me Officially Graduated. Now she sometimes runs her papers past me. )

My pet peeve: Till we meet again.

Till is what you do to a farm field.

'Til is the correct short version of "until".

[Chet]

My God, I just realized there are people more anal retentive than me in existence! Thank you!

And Wanigas! - is it really appropriate to be outting your uncle? Rules of decorum apply to that just as much as they apply to the english language. Sheeesh.

[Tom R]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chet
[B]My God, I just realized there are people more anal retentive than me in existence!

That should be "....more anal retentive than I in existance."

[Wannaplan?]

Originally posted by Chet
My God, I just realized there are people more anal retentive than me in existence! Thank you!

And Wanigas! - is it really appropriate to be outting your uncle? Rules of decorum apply to that just as much as they apply to the english language. Sheeesh.

Chet, if you have an axe to grind with me, please feel free to send me a PM. Otherwise, please stop your trolling - you are a moderator afterall.

[michaelskis]

I may be wrong, but in many other languages, "H" is almost a vowel. In French for example, many times the H at the beginning of a word is not pronounced. Much of the English language comes from other languages (mainly Latin and Greek).

[Michele Zone]

Originally posted by Tom R
I think the change from "a" to "an" developed as an easier way of pronounciation when the vowell "a" comes directly before a word starting with another vowell. A apple is harder to say than an apple.

I was going to spare you, since I think it is not nice to pick on people about such things, but you did it to Chet. So, for fun:

It is "vowel", not "vowell".

Yes, it is harder to say two vowels back-to-back and that is why French is so screwy: they like things to flow almost musically and, therefore, they stick in extra letters willy-nilly specifically for that purpose, plus they drop vowels and also change word forms all together, just so it flows nicely.

As for what michaelskis said: I can't think of any words in French where the H is actually pronounced at all. A number of foreign languages basically drop the H in a lot of cognates. In classic Greek, they had no letter for H. They simply put an apostrophe at the beginning of a word starting with a vowel to indicate the aspiration. H is one of those weird sounds, similar to "th", that is just kind of hard to say and to hear, actually. I have a German aunt who never did learn to say "th".

[octa girl]

yeah I second the recommendation for steven pinker. I read 'the language instinct'. It was well written and interesting. I have heard good things about 'how the mind works'; but i don't think it focuses on language aquisition.

[Michele Zone]

For fun: Here is the link to a poem, which is sometimes incorrectly called "English is Tough Stuff."

http://www.waldorf-swlondon.org/texts/the_chaos.html

We used this poem for a week or so, a few years back, for homeschooling our kids. They did not believe I had all the words pronounced correctly when I read it out loud and we looked many of them up in the dictionary. After that, my kids argued with me a lot less. If you know how to pronounce everything in that poem, you are an Uber-Geek of a different genre than what usually gets referred to here. (Which isn't to say I knew all of them. Some of these words are so obscure that I had not seen them before. But everything I claimed to know how to pronounce turned out to be correct.)

[Tom R]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Michele Zone
[B]I was going to spare you, since I think it is not nice to pick on people about such things, but you did it to Chet. So, for fun:

It is "vowel", not "vowell".

Thanks. I can take it as well as dish it out. I never could spell very well. I use spell check on my emails but I can't find one for Cyburbia. But for clarification, I think the first round was fired by Chet regarding anal retentiveness. Hopefully all was in fun.

[plannerkat]

Nothing to add really, except that "an historic" drives me nuts!!!! H is not a vowel people!

[Tom R]

Originally posted by plannerkat
Nothing to add really, except that "an historic" drives me nuts!!!! H is not a vowel people!

Remember a e i o u , sometimes y and often w.

[Michele Zone]

Originally posted by Tom R
Thanks. I can take it as well as dish it out. I never could spell very well. I use spell check on my emails but I can't find one for Cyburbia. But for clarification, I think the first round was fired by Chet regarding anal retentiveness. Hopefully all was in fun.

I think it was in good fun. I certainly meant no harm.

I have a friend whose spelling is pathetic and she complains that spell check never has the kinds of words in it that she has trouble with. I have run into that myself, when writing college papers with technical terms. She asked me once when I was going to write a spell check for "smart people" (folks with big vocabularies). I spell fairly well, most of the time. But my ability to write code is pretty pathetic so I don't think I will be marketing Spell Checker for Brainiacs anytime soon. (And then there is the whole foreign language thing. Spell checker whigs out when you throw in foreign phrases!)