In a rut (again)

[Cardinal]

A few comments:

"liberals" - Perhaps you want to check out a few of the other posts. From what I've seen most planners are gun owning libertarians or conservatives.

private sector work - We use a dedicated and talented planning consultant that I hold in high regard. Still, I often catch things he/they have missed. None of us is perfect. At the same time, I have worked with other consultants that give me reason to be very critical of the industry. "Search and replace" is not the way to write a village master plan, yet it is really obvious that some consultants do this. I can point to a string of communities where the plans are nearly identical except for the maps and the community name. (Black Earth Creek runs through the Village of Black Earth. Mazomanie Creek does not run through the Village of Mazomanie, Black Earth Creek does.)

El Guapo - missed you!

Yeah, I've had a motivation problem for a while. I set out to accomplish a number of things when I first came here, and for the most part, I have done it. Now I am searching for new projects to sink my teeth into, but it takes energy, I have less time because of increased work loads, meetings fill up my days and too many evenings, and I'm beginning to feel like I need more of a social life than I've been getting lately.

$4.22 per person, not including benefits. Our whole organization costs $10.65 per person.

[Tranplanner]

donk wrote:
The other question that is coming out of this sidetrack is why are American employers/municipalities paying so much more per capita for planning services then Canadian employers?

I don't think it's a U.S. vs. Canada thing, I think it's more of a small town/large City thing. After all, El Guapo is the cheapest amongst us so far , not taking into account the exchange rate.

I seem to remember seeing somewhere the overall per capita cost figures for City Planning in Toronto. It wasn't a whole heck of a lot. The Urban Development Services department as a whole actually makes money for the City through permit., licensing, and application fees.

[NHPlanner]

I cost my Town roughly $1.67 per person/per year...lower than I thought I'd be.

[BKM]

I'm cheap. 70 cents per year, not including benies (which are generous) . Maybe 90 cents with benies.

[Downtown]

$0.71 a year w/o benefits. But then, we're one of the largest towns in NY State.

[mugbub]

So (trying to justify laziness) several of you did a calculation to see how much you cost per citizen. That's really not the point.

Think of the person who shovels shit for a living, cuts grass, or does any other related blue collar job. Just because you whiners went to college you are not entitled to screw around at work. There's alot of bitching about "planner's salaries," but in reality you earn what you're worth.

Shut your whining mouths, turn off the internet for 8 hours and get something done. We need to try a blue collar work ethic- none of us are above that. No matter how bad it sucks, from the moment you get to work to the moment you leave, you should work 100% of the time. Play on cyburbia on your own time because you are on 1 cent (or whatever you town is) of each citizen's time when you're at work.

There's a term in the real world called "time theft." If you play on the web all day then you are stealing the time your employer pays you to do work. I know many of you agree with all that I'm saying.

[giff57]

mugbub wrote:
So (trying to justify laziness) several of you did a calculation to see how much you cost per citizen. That's really not the point.

I don't really think anyone here has to justify anything. Who's time are you on when you post bub? Like someone pointed out before, if we counted night meetings and other extra stuff we would all be making about $6.00 an hour. I think that the cost per citizen shows what a great deal our people get. If it wasn't for us, they would have to hire some money grubbing consultant from the private sector to do it. (sorry BTurk) I wonder why cities do not privatize planning services? It is because, even a lazy as you think we are, we give our citizens the best deal.

[Mastiff]

mugbub wrote:
So (trying to justify laziness) several of you did a calculation to see how much you cost per citizen. That's really not the point.

The actual point sailed over your head the first time, and hasn't really made a return trip for you to make a second attempt. Let me try and enlighten you. It was about SELF MOTIVATION.

mugbub wrote:
Think of the person who shovels **** for a living, cuts grass, or does any other related blue collar job. Just because you whiners went to college you are not entitled to screw around at work. There's alot of bitching about "planner's salaries," but in reality you earn what you're worth.

Thanks! I make a good salary for the area, and I am worth it! And here's another clue for you... a college education is only worth the person who was educated. I know PhD's who are so clueless they can't even hold a job.

mugbub wrote:
Shut your whining mouths, turn off the internet for 8 hours and get something done. We need to try a blue collar work ethic- none of us are above that.

Duck! Here comes clue #3! If I turn off the internet, I become much less productive, and cost the city a fortune in monies for trips, phone calls, and research that is *already done* and there for the taking. Oh, and if I just turn it off for 8 hours, can I still have it on for the other 2 hours of my normal 10 hour day?

mugbub wrote:
No matter how bad it sucks, from the moment you get to work to the moment you leave, you should work 100% of the time. Play on cyburbia on your own time because you are on 1 cent (or whatever you town is) of each citizen's time when you're at work.

Oh yeah, we're all automatons... And, of course, no "blue collar" folks ever goof off at work... And, also, none of us ever go over and above our duty calls to get the job done... Add clue #4 to the bag, that being most of us don't work the 8 to 5 routine, and actually do more work than most of your "**** shovelers".

mugbub wrote:
There's a term in the real world called "time theft." If you play on the web all day then you are stealing the time your employer pays you to do work. I know many of you agree with all that I'm saying.

There is also a term called "salaried personnel". I'm paid to achieve particular goals using my knowledge and expertise. Do you know *why* I don't punch a clock, mullethead? Because if they timed my 100%, no playing around, no posting to the internet job, they would have weeks of paying me 20 or 30 hours of overtime.

I believe they'd prefer I post from time to time...

Here's a nice example for you!

I just got a phone call from a state agency informing me that the city had been approved for an $80 thousand dollar grant.

I wrote that grant the second week I was employed here, and found it under a stack of papers left on the desk by my predecessor. The due date was in seven days.... I spent over 80 hours (including the week-end), in addition to my "normal" work, making sure it was completed. Hell, I even drove the packet 75 miles to turn it in.

I guess the folks in my town got a pretty good deal for that week, huh?

[el Guapo]

I detect self esteem issues, mudbug. Work through the pain. No one in the group is going to judge you. Well, I won't anyway.

Here is a big HUG ((((((((mudbug))))))))

[Cardinal]

We need to try a blue collar work ethic - none of us are above that. No matter how bad it sucks, from the moment you get to work to the moment you leave, you should work 100% of the time.

I only wish I could come in at 8:00, take a fifteen minute break in the morning, a half hour lunch, and leave at 4:30. More often I am here before 8, work through lunch, stay until five and then return at 6 or 7 for a meeting that may go on until midnight. By the end of the day today (Wednesday) I had already put in 31 hours this week. If I stop three or four times a day to post, what does that mean, the citizens only get 50 hours of work for the forty I am paid for?

I know several planners without college degrees. I also know people with advanced degrees whose work involves physical labor. Don't try telling me we are prima donnas who think we are better than others or don't think we should have to work.

Like most of us, I worked physical labor and retail, and spent eight years in the Army to pay for my education and earn the job I now have. Guess what, the people in those jobs often complained about the work, griped about the pay, or sometimes got bored. What's more, they might stretch a fifteen minute break to twenty or occassionally put in a less productive day. It's normal. Deal.

It sounds like you have some ax to grind. Whatever your problem, think about it before you go off insulting people.

[el Guapo]

...I ask myself, What Would Dan Tasman Do? Try it mudbug, it will help you center and radiate good vibes to those darn government employees.

[Bullwinkle]

My citizens pay about $17.33 per person per year. The whole department (me, a building inspector, and a grant writer/asst. planner) costs about $73.43/person/year. But, we brought in over $580,000 in grants in the past year! A $400,000 CDBG award really bumps up the numbers.

[mike gurnee]

I am taking a vacation day, cleaning house for HS graduation. While shampooing, mopping, etc.--my mind wonders...to a particular problem I have at work. I have an afternoon meeting, but will still charge the day to vacation. Sure wish I had a job where I could put in 100% while at the office with a blue collar work ethic.

[Mastiff]

El Guapo wrote:
...I ask myself, What Would Dan Tasman Do?

So you won't be going out on any dates this week-end?

(Sorry Dan, it was a hanging curve left way up in the strike zone...)

K

[Tranplanner]

El Guapo wrote:
...I ask myself, What Would Dan Tasman Do?

Must...not...make...kitten...killing...comment.

See what you started Mastiff?

mugbub wrote:
Think of the person who shovels **** for a living, cuts grass, or does any other related blue collar job. Just because you whiners went to college you are not entitled to screw around at work.

I don't know about you, but I find writing a Planning Report a much different task than mowing the grass. Instead of just turning on the lawn mower and cutting 'til the lawn is done, I have to analysis, think, and express thoughts in a (largely) coherent manner. Sometimes when I get stuck, the best thing to do is exercise my head a bit, and if that means surfing on over to Cyburbia for a few minutes, then so be it.

BTW - I'm union, so I get to combine blue-collar laziness with white-collar laziness. The best of both worlds!

[Mastiff]

Tranplanner wrote:
See what you started Mastiff?

Me?! How did I start it? It was the Mexican Madman, and you know it!

To tell you the truth, I think the "Guap" has quite a following these days. In fact, women in the planning field have been seen headed to, nay... rushing to... the local porn shops for the latest item fashioned after the Super Moderator!

[Downtown]

I should know better - I just spewed coffee all over my meeting agenda for this morning. Thanks Mastiff. It was actually nice to start friday morning with a belly laugh.

[Mastiff]

And it was probably well worth the $.19 my citizens paid for me to post it, eh?