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Thread: If april showers bring may flowers, what do may showers bring?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    If april showers bring may flowers, what do may showers bring?

    More sewage dumping!

    Now granted, it's been unseasonable rainy here for the last two weeks (and at least for another week), but my god, in this day and age, we should not be dumping BILLIONS of raw or partially treated human waste into our ecosystem.

    ...especially not the one we draw our drinking water from

  2. #2
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Could someone give Milwaukee a dope slap for me?

    Haven't we done enough to our precious Lakes already?
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

    Six seasons and a movie!

  3. #3
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Simple.... mud!
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Seabishop's avatar
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    What's a little sewage in your drinking water? Be a man!

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Plus
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    CSO are also a problem along the Ohio River
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


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    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  6. #6
    When it rains here in Milwaukee every news station has someone stationed at the Sewerage District offices, kind of like when they have the reported standing in front of the snowplows or piles of salt when it snows. It is supposed to rain tonight. Tomorrow morning we will hear about more poop being dumped. Ahh the benefits of shared storm and sanitary sewers!

    Two weeks ago there was a poop slick (think oil slick, but with poop) on Lake Michigan.
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

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  7. #7
          Downtown's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Repo Man
    Ahh the benefits of shared storm and sanitary sewers!
    I honestly can't imagine why it ever seemed like a good idea to mix the two in the first place.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Downtown
    I honestly can't imagine why it ever seemed like a good idea to mix the two in the first place.
    The only reasons I've heard (and I am not suggesting they are good) are:

    (1) "Blending" waste with clear water reduces its concentration and makes the BOD and VOC levels reduced, allowing for cheaper treatment, assuming you can process the volume.

    (2) "Back in the day" a developer would plat land, and the City would pay to install all of the infrastructure (remember, this was a socialist stronghold for many many decades. We had socialist Mayors into the 1950's or early 1960's if I recall right). Later administrations would still install the infrastructure, but assess the cost back, and there still was little incentive to separate the system.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally posted by JNA
    CSO are also a problem along the Ohio River
    Uhh, I've been meaning to tell you, what with us being up river from you and all . . .
    On pitching to Stan Musial:
    "Once he timed your fastball, your infielders were in jeopardy."
    Warren Spahn

  10. #10
    Cyburbian SlaveToTheGrind's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Downtown
    I honestly can't imagine why it ever seemed like a good idea to mix the two in the first place.
    ...and in a region where heavy rainfall is not that unusual.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian biscuit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Gedunker
    Uhh, I've been meaning to tell you, what with us being up river from you and all . . .
    Did you guys not get the memo?
    I couldn't imagine what city out there would allow such a thing to happen to the river.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Rumpy Tunanator's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Repo Man
    Ahh the benefits of shared storm and sanitary sewers!
    We have the same archaic system here too, but thanks to the Niagara River its usually not a problem. Most beaches to the south along lake erie close after heavy rain due to farm runoff and other fun stuff.

    OT: Hey Biscuit, you ever do any carp fishing in the 3 rivers? Good times
    A guy once told me, "Do not have any attachments, do not have anything in your life you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you spot the heat around the corner."


    Neil McCauley (Robert DeNiro): Heat 1995

  13. #13
    Cyburbian ludes98's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Downtown
    I honestly can't imagine why it ever seemed like a good idea to mix the two in the first place.
    I am wondering the same thing.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Its not like this is a new event for Milwaukee. Didn't they get sewed in the early 80's for this by Chicago? Didn't it end up the courts told Chicago they couldn't sue for some goofy reason?

    Its looking like 5 billion a month could have baught a lot of waste water control.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  15. #15
    Cyburbian iamme's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia
    Its not like this is a new event for Milwaukee. Didn't they get sewed in the early 80's for this by Chicago? Didn't it end up the courts told Chicago they couldn't sue for some goofy reason?

    Its looking like 5 billion a month could have baught a lot of waste water control.
    I'm pretty sure that the lawsuit did go through and it forced Milwaukee to deal with the problem.

    There were two options, seperate the sewers which would have cost a "whole heck of a lot of money" or build large tunnels underground to store the waste until it could be treated which only cost a "heck of a lot of money". The problem is that when they calculated the size of what needed to be built they figured that the amount of rainwater entering the system would go down by about 12% due to other improvements in the system. The only problem is that rainwater entering the system increased 5%. Hence all the overflows. Right now they are extending the tunnel system and are also considering a partial/total seperation of the sewers in addition.


    On a side note with beach closings, does anyone think that the water was less polluted years ago? My thinking on beach closings and the associated paranoia is that no one knew there was all the crap (not literally) in the water. Kinda like ignorance is bliss.

  16. #16
    maudit anglais
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    Toronto is busily separating storm and sanitary sewers in the older parts of the City. As for why combined systems were ever used, I'm sure back in the day the engineers figured "why would you want two sets of pipes if it's just going to get dumped (untreated) into the lake/river/ocean anyway?"

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by iamme
    I'm pretty sure that the lawsuit did go through and it forced Milwaukee to deal with the problem.

    The lawsuit was won by Illinois, requiring the construction of the "deep tunnel" storage system, and requiring the separation of combined sewers.

    On appeal, the separation requirement was dropped.

    Here's this morning's radar image. How much do you think we'll dump today?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails nexrad.bmp  

  18. #18
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by iamme
    On a side note with beach closings, does anyone think that the water was less polluted years ago? My thinking on beach closings and the associated paranoia is that no one knew there was all the crap (not literally) in the water. Kinda like ignorance is bliss.
    A quote from an environmental law textbook of mine is to the effect of "The Cayahoga (??) may not be swimmable or fishable but at least it's no longer flammable." Pollution was pretty bad before they began monitoring it. I think 1969 was the year of the first US Federal environmental law (based on something California did some years before that, if memory serves). If you look stuff up, you often find that air and water were a lot more polluted in the 1970's and records usually don't go back (much) further than that.

    [hyperbole]OT: My sincerest apologies to Chet for using the expression "if the crick don't rise" in another thread. That was incredibly insensitive of me.[/hyperbole]
    Last edited by Michele Zone; 21 May 2004 at 2:42 PM.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Looks like another summer of closed beaches in Chicago

    **** you Milwaukee!

    Yeah the lawsuit made Milwaukee build its deep tunnels but they did a really half-assed job of it. They only can hold like 140 million gallons or something, or a tiny percentage of Chicago's (unfinished) system's capacity, and a smaller amount per capita as well.

    You'd think it'd be important enough for them to have clean water that they'd take the initiative to build a decent deep tunnel system without a lawsuit, but I guess their priorities lie elsewhere...

  20. #20
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jordanb
    You'd think it'd be important enough for them to have clean water that they'd take the initiative to build a decent deep tunnel system without a lawsuit, but I guess their priorities lie elsewhere...
    We've been too busy building super highways into the north woods to accommodate all you F.I.B.'s heading to your weekends homes.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Quote Originally posted by Chet
    F.I.B.
    Q. Who or what is a F.I.B. ?
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


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    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  22. #22
    I am shocked that the mayor has the audacity to say that the suburban communities should help foot the bill if the sewers were to be seperated. The suburban communities that make up the sewerage district already get the raw end of the deal as we are taxed by them based on our assessed value, not actual sewer capacity and stormwater runoff

    FIB

    F---ing Illinois Bastard (can I say bastard on here?)
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 22 May 2004 at 8:11 PM.
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

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  23. #23
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Repo Man
    I am shocked that the mayor has the audacity to say that the suburban communities should help foot the bill if the sewers were to be seperated. The suburban communities that make up the sewerage district already get the raw end of the deal as we are taxed by them based on our assessed value, not actual sewer capacity and stormwater runoff

    AND, none of the burbs HAVE the combined sewers - they are all in the City proper!

    The last burb I worked for spent over 2 million of their own money on I&I repairs and in-line storage. To suggest they pay more is downright ignorant.

  24. #24
          freewaytincan's avatar
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    Oh, I thought the answer to the title of the thread would be INSTANT DEATH!

  25. #25
    Cyburbian Trail Nazi's avatar
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    When I saw the thread title for this, I thought the answer was going to be that May flowers brought Pilgrims.

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