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Poll results: Should the US bring back the Draft?

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it is only fair to distribute the burden equally.

    9 20.93%
  • Yes, if the concept is tweaked a bit.

    11 25.58%
  • I'm unsure.

    2 4.65%
  • No, but I'm not totally against the idea.

    11 25.58%
  • No, "Hell no we won't go!" Pass the doobie...

    9 20.93%
  • I have another idea, so let me explain below.

    1 2.33%
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Thread: Bring Back the Draft?

  1. #51
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman
    Once again Zman & I are on the same page. I think I may have brought up something similar to this in one of the ancient threads sometime back. I know that not everyone is cut out to squeeze a trigger, but there are other ways to serve society. A policy like what Zman describes would not only help others, but also help our society that seems to have become so selfish and self-centered.
    Well, I think a lot of people, middle-class teens included, could do more for this country and share experiences of the underprivledged rather than catch an MTV Special between reruns of Laguna Beach and a new TRL complete with ads to glorify inner-city shetto culture.

    My stance: TOO MANY DISTRACTIONS for kids to actually care.

    We had programs at Northern Colorado for alternative spring break, which took kids from our corner of the state and sent them to inner-city Detroit for a week to work with small kids there. Of course the only kids that went were the Liberal/Green Party "hippies" that everyone looked down on or talked out to because they actually cared about something other than "chasing tail" or "gatting a handle of McCormick Vodka". (Makes me wish I did more...)
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  2. #52
    Cyburbian
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    Well I don't know why I hadn't said anything, but since here we do have compulsory military service, which in reality is far from it, since only poor youngsters end doing military service and most of the vacancies are filled voluntarily, politicians are trying to change it into a voluntary military service... But beyond the "just" militar service I believe that it should be Civil Service, such as firemen or other forms of civil service for the community (I note that firemen in Chile are not paid and just a voluntary force that gets some funding for equipment from the government and from the communities served, but no payroll)

  3. #53
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by giff57
    So, what do these exceptions do to your original point?

    (Grabs giant pot stirring spoon)

    So when we cut student aid and programs for low income folks, that leaves little option for those who "are more equipped to serve in the military." except military service. That way, the wealthy elite can "sustain American economics and culture at home"....

    My point is that service should not be required of all people unless in extreme exceptions. Vietnam certainly wasn't an extreme exception. Iraq certainly isn't an extreme exception. Times of peace certainly aren't extreme exceptions. I think the selective service and current recruitment is good enough. All this talk about military service being required of everyone is all hogwash. I get the least satisfaction when I am required to help someone. When I do so out of the goodness of my heart, I get tremendous satisfaction and am more willing to help and will help to an even greater extent.

    I believe the higher education problem talked about more by jordanb is another issue that does relate to military service, but needs to be addressed. Something needs to be done. I think private loans are a good idea. I think extremely low-cost community colleges (or just low-cost gen ed courses at any college, for that matter) are a good idea. I think more optional military-prep courses in high school and better recruitment strategies might be a good idea. I think more federal or state reimbursement and benefits for those who serve is a good idea.

    I still think that there will be those more able and willing to go than others. And mandatory service for all is NOT the answer.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  4. #54
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner
    I believe the higher education problem talked about more by jordanb is another issue that does relate to military service, but needs to be addressed. Something needs to be done. I think private loans are a good idea. I think extremely low-cost community colleges (or just low-cost gen ed courses at any college, for that matter) are a good idea. I think more optional military-prep courses in high school and better recruitment strategies might be a good idea. I think more federal or state reimbursement and benefits for those who serve is a good idea.
    Um, so what are you saying, that the poor should still have to go into debt or into the military if they want a four-year bachelors' degree, just that they should have the privilege of borrowing from private bloodsuckers (which they already have) and that the recruitment videos should be slicker? Or am I missing something? How are you paying for college?

  5. #55
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner
    My point is that service should not be required of all people unless in extreme exceptions. Vietnam certainly wasn't an extreme exception. Iraq certainly isn't an extreme exception. Times of peace certainly aren't extreme exceptions. I think the selective service and current recruitment is good enough. All this talk about military service being required of everyone is all hogwash. I get the least satisfaction when I am required to help someone. When I do so out of the goodness of my heart, I get tremendous satisfaction and am more willing to help and will help to an even greater extent.

    I believe the higher education problem talked about more by jordanb is another issue that does relate to military service, but needs to be addressed. Something needs to be done. I think private loans are a good idea. I think extremely low-cost community colleges (or just low-cost gen ed courses at any college, for that matter) are a good idea. I think more optional military-prep courses in high school and better recruitment strategies might be a good idea. I think more federal or state reimbursement and benefits for those who serve is a good idea.

    I still think that there will be those more able and willing to go than others. And mandatory service for all is NOT the answer.
    Well, that wasn't the response I was trolling for, must not have used the correct bait.
    “As soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fall”
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  6. #56

    Registered
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner
    I still think that there will be those more able and willing to go than others. And mandatory service for all is NOT the answer.
    But would you agree that mandatory public service -- not simply military service -- is a good thing for our country? Sure, many people could fulfilll a national service commitment with military service. But what about Peace Corps-type activities? Or Americorps-type activities?

    I received a fellowship to attend graduate school that was paid for by HUD. The only requirement it made of me was that I had to work for two years in government (federal, state or local levels) at an agency that received CDBG money. Is that reasonable?

  7. #57
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jordanb
    Um, so what are you saying, that the poor should still have to go into debt or into the military if they want a four-year bachelors' degree, just that they should have the privilege of borrowing from private bloodsuckers (which they already have) and that the recruitment videos should be slicker? Or am I missing something? How are you paying for college?
    Yes, you are missing something. I'm saying that getting an associate's degree, completing all general ed requirements, first 2 years of college, however you want to look at it...should be easy as hell and cheap as hell for everyone regardless of your economic status and regardless of whether you want to go to a community college or 4-year college. Then the last 2 years of college to complete a bachelor's degree should remain at the current level ($10K a year or so, i s'pose could be lowered a bit).

    For me, a bank is paying for most of my schooling with a few minor private scholarships and a limited fafsa loan. I will be paying that bank back a lot of money once i graduate and get a full-time job...hopefully. But I really think it's insane that I'm paying $5000K a semester for gen eds when i could have paid $1000K at a community college. That injustice needs to be settled.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  8. #58
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by pete-rock
    But would you agree that mandatory public service -- not simply military service -- is a good thing for our country? Sure, many people could fulfilll a national service commitment with military service. But what about Peace Corps-type activities? Or Americorps-type activities?

    I received a fellowship to attend graduate school that was paid for by HUD. The only requirement it made of me was that I had to work for two years in government (federal, state or local levels) at an agency that received CDBG money. Is that reasonable?
    While there are lots of good civil service programs out there, I don't think it should be forced. I think that greater benefits should be offered and more promotion of these programs, no doubt, however.

    In your case, they paid for your graduate schooling, in exchange for your service, right?? Thus, an incentive. Very reasonable. Very good idea.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  9. #59
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner
    'm saying that getting an associate's degree, completing all general ed requirements, first 2 years of college, however you want to look at it...should be easy as hell and cheap as hell for everyone regardless of your economic status and regardless of whether you want to go to a community college or 4-year college. Then the last 2 years of college to complete a bachelor's degree should remain at the current level ($10K a year or so, i s'pose could be lowered a bit).

    For me, a bank is paying for most of my schooling with a few minor private scholarships and a limited fafsa loan. I will be paying that bank back a lot of money once i graduate and get a full-time job...hopefully. But I really think it's insane that I'm paying $5000K a semester for gen eds when i could have paid $1000K at a community college. That injustice needs to be settled.
    Unless your particular school does not allow transfer credit, there is no reason why you can't do that now, except for the time and hassle involved, and the uncertinty of taking classes to fullfill the requirements of a program that you've not yet been accepted into, plus the fact that full-time tuition at a community college is still several hundred dollars a semester.

    An associate degree has very limitied utility in today's job market. Its only purpose is to reduce the cost of a four-year degree, so pray tell why not just subsidize the four year programs adequatly?

    In 1959, a full-time semester at UIC cost about $50. In today's money, that's about $320, so why on earth am I paying nearly $4,000 a semester? What happened between then and now that would cause tuition at a state school to go up at over twelve times the rate of inflation?

    Also, the bank isn't paying for your education. Maybe you don't understand it now, and perhaps you won't until you graduate and have to make a mad dash to get a job in your six-month grace period, but YOU are paying for that education and potentially will be paying that bank a great deal of money over a very long time.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner
    My point is that service should not be required of all people unless in extreme exceptions. Vietnam certainly wasn't an extreme exception. Iraq certainly isn't an extreme exception. Times of peace certainly aren't extreme exceptions. I think the selective service and current recruitment is good enough. All this talk about military service being required of everyone is all hogwash. I get the least satisfaction when I am required to help someone. When I do so out of the goodness of my heart, I get tremendous satisfaction and am more willing to help and will help to an even greater extent.

    I believe the higher education problem talked about more by jordanb is another issue that does relate to military service, but needs to be addressed. Something needs to be done. I think private loans are a good idea. I think extremely low-cost community colleges (or just low-cost gen ed courses at any college, for that matter) are a good idea. I think more optional military-prep courses in high school and better recruitment strategies might be a good idea. I think more federal or state reimbursement and benefits for those who serve is a good idea.

    I still think that there will be those more able and willing to go than others. And mandatory service for all is NOT the answer.

    I have no problem with this per se. My vitriol is reserved for the adamant War Party Cheerleaders (National Review Online, Jonah Goldberg, Dick Cheney, etc) who themselves refuse to serve because they have more important things to do. If you are supporting a War of Choice, then you had better serve yourself. And, by "serve" I do not mean sitting in one's mother's basement typing screeds about evil liberals and the glorious future of Iraq.

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