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Thread: All planners are crazy... but

  1. #1
          Downtown's avatar
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    All planners are crazy... but

    All crazies aren't planners.

    What is this If...but... called? We're going insane in our office trying to find the term. As in All Squares are Rectangles, but not all all Rectangles are Squares.

    I knew the Throbbing Brain could help me!

  2. #2
    Sounds very much like a mathematical problem to me. Yet another reason why I was a history major Sorry I can't help (but I'll know it when I hear it).
    Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
    Abraham Lincoln

  3. #3
    Cyburbian biscuit's avatar
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    Would that be an inference?

    As in...
    your Premise is: Planners are crazy
    the inference (I think) would be: But all crazies aren't planners.

    I could be so wrong on this.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Sounds like one them thar GRE questions

    For Maister and other north country folk

    Planners are crazy
    but not as crazy as a Loon.

  5. #5
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by JNA
    Sounds like one them thar GRE questions
    For Maister and other north country folk
    .
    It's a syllogism.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Tom R's avatar
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    example

    Such as:

    God is love,
    Love is blind,
    Stevie Wonder is blind,
    Therefore:
    God digs R&B.

  7. #7
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tom R
    Such as:

    God is love,
    Love is blind,
    Stevie Wonder is blind,
    Therefore:
    God digs R&B.
    Amen, Hallelujia!
    or how about
    People that spend all their time thinking tend to have poor personal hygiene;
    Planners spend all their time thinking;
    Therefore, Planners tend to have have poor personal hygiene.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  8. #8
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tom R
    Such as:

    God is love,
    Love is blind,
    Stevie Wonder is blind,
    Therefore:
    God digs R&B.
    Touché.....good one Tom R!!!!

    EDIT: I see a new game. Makeup cool syllogisms. Tom R has started, so I'll got next:

    Some unions are corrupt,
    some planners are in unions,
    Therefore:
    some planners are democrats.

    EDIT-2: Damn you Maister for starting the game before me.
    Last edited by mendelman; 20 Jul 2004 at 1:09 PM.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Every day is today. Yesterday is a myth and tomorrow an illusion.

  9. #9
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman
    Touché.....good one Tom R!!!!
    For some reason I liked his example better than mine....
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  10. #10
          Downtown's avatar
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    Maister - Sorry, but no cigar. A syllogism is:

    If all dogs are mammals, and spike is a dog, then spike is a mammal.

    I'm looking for the specific:

    all x's are ys, but not all y's are x's.

  11. #11
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Downtown
    Maister - Sorry, but no cigar. A syllogism is:

    If all dogs are mammals, and spike is a dog, then spike is a mammal.

    I'm looking for the specific:

    all x's are ys, but not all y's are x's.
    Yes but you have to admit that the syllogism game is much more fun to play...
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  12. #12
    Cyburbian SW MI Planner's avatar
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    All buildings are structures, but not all structures are buildings.

    I am so confused by this thread, that I forgot what your asking!! Are you looking for the term or an example????

  13. #13
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Because JNA mentioned me by name I now feel duty bound to provide a correct answer (could I rightfully claim title of Chairman of the Bored otherwise?). Blowing the dust off my old college logic textbook of 21 years ago, I did not find any nice convenient one-word term (like syllogism) to describe the kind of verbal construct you refer to. Near as I can tell, at least in the field of logic, "all x's are y's but all y's are not x's" is a universal conjunctive exclusionary statement. If someone can pull a rabbit out of the hat and produce a one-word term I will happily confer my chairmanship to them.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Plus
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    I had mentioned Maister by name and the north country folk because of my reference to waterfowl as in "crazy as a Loon."

    Sorry for that Maister my bad,
    I though you would defend the Loon over planners being crazy.

  15. #15
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by JNA
    I though you would defend the Loon over planners being crazy.
    Loons are good. Planners are bad. Never dare to make that disparaging comparasin again!!!
    Having defended the honor of loons, I am reluctant to speak further on the matter for fear that Dan or NH planner will incorporate some sort of insulting photo-shopped image showing me being inordinately kind to some waterfowl. No doubt everyone would then have a big laugh at my expense. And we wouldn't want that now would we?
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  16. #16
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    Loons are good. Planners are bad. Never dare to make that disparaging comparasin again!!!
    Having defended the honor of loons, I am reluctant to speak further on the matter for fear that Dan or NH planner will incorporate some sort of insulting photo-shopped image showing me being inordinately kind to some waterfowl. No doubt everyone would then have a big laugh at my expense. And we wouldn't want that now would we?
    We can surely have a big laugh at your expense without a photoshopped pic.......we'll just wait for you to make some obscure, nerdy gaming reference......HA HA.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Every day is today. Yesterday is a myth and tomorrow an illusion.

  17. #17
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman
    We can surely have a big laugh at your expense without a photoshopped pic.......we'll just wait for you to make some obscure, nerdy gaming reference......HA HA.
    Consider yourself fortunate that you and I are separated by 160 miles and a computer screen - or I would strike you down with my +5 vorpal sword and then it would be me laughing as you make your -20% save vs. fear.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  18. #18
    Cyburbian statler's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Downtown
    All crazies aren't planners.

    What is this If...but... called? We're going insane in our office trying to find the term. As in All Squares are Rectangles, but not all all Rectangles are Squares.

    I knew the Throbbing Brain could help me!
    I'm not sure if this is what your looking for but it is sort of close.

    Denying the Antecedent

    And

    Affirming the Consequent

    Hope this helps.
    "So, if a city has a personality, maybe it also has a soul. Maybe it dreams." -Gaiman
    ArchBoston

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Alright Maister, hand it over!

    chiasmus (ky-AZ-mus) n .
    a reversal in the order of words in two otherwise parallel phrases.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    This is all I can say...

    If you want different results in your life, you need to do different things than you have done in the past. Change is that simple.

  21. #21
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    chiasmus (ky-AZ-mus) n .
    a reversal in the order of words in two otherwise parallel phrases.
    I would hand over the chairmanship, but it's a gender specific position. You'll notice it's not chairperson
    I think using the terminology of logic a 'chiasmus' would be termed a 'tautology'. You would be right about the statement being a chiasmus - but for the presence of that pesky "but not" wedged into the statement.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  22. #22
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    I would hand over the chairmanship, but it's a gender specific position. You'll notice it's not chairperson
    I think using the terminology of logic a 'chiasmus' would be termed a 'tautology'. You would be right about the statement being a chiasmus - but for the presence of that pesky "but not" wedged into the statement.
    Well I am not getting a sex change operation and then going into a lengthy legal battle concerning whether it is or is not truly a chiasmus. So just forget about it.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian statler's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    This is all I can say...

    I used to love that joke till somebody pointed out that the first line should be Girls = Time + Money, thus ruining the rest of the formula.

    And now I've ruined it for everyone else!
    "So, if a city has a personality, maybe it also has a soul. Maybe it dreams." -Gaiman
    ArchBoston

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by statler
    I used to love that joke till somebody pointed out that the first line should be Girls = Time + Money, thus ruining the rest of the formula.

    And now I've ruined it for everyone else!
    No, I iz a math geek. I just nicely decided to not bust Michael's chops since he seems to think I am evil incarnate...and maybe that is why he posted that formula right after MY post. :-P

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