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Thread: What should I do to buy a house?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    What should I do to buy a house?

    Everyone knows I am looking to BUY a house next fall... and I have been looking, found a few neighborhoods I might want to live in, now I am wondering a few things.

    First of all, how do single people afford nice houses in nice neighborhoods?
    What % of your income should go to housing payments?
    What would be my first steps to getting pre approved?
    How much of a down payment do I need?
    What features should I look for?
    What inspections should I have done before hand?
    Should I contact a realtor?
    How much of a “fixer upper” should I get involved with?
    Old houses vs New Houses, what is a better deal?
    Any tips would be greatly appreceated.

    Oh and PlannerByDay, do you still have that Rancher for sale, if so PM me the asking price and the address so I can see the neighborhood.
    The most foolish thing one can do this fall is to vote for Clinton or Trump. Wake up, get out of the matrix, and send a message to the political establishment that you won't play their game.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
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    A simple Google search on first-time homebuyers will answer your questions. Also the FannieMae website.
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  3. #3
    Cyburbian iamme's avatar
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    As far as what you can do right now, I would get my credit together. Try to get copies of what the big three credit reporting companies have on you to verify its accuracy. Also, try to pay down any high interest loans you have (credit cards) while also trying to get a strong downpayment saved. (20% of the loan is very nice but many do with less)

  4. #4
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Before buying a house my wife and I attended a First Time Home Buyers class. Very helpful. Got us knowledgeable on the loan programs we qualified for and so on. If there is one in your area I would suggest you enroll. Being a planner helped too. I had good contacts and knew a good realtor. Was better able to run down the particulars on the properties we looked at because I knew where to go for the information. Don't forget to check the files on the prospective houses with the building department. Just a few things I can pass along.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  5. #5
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    First of all, how do single people afford nice houses in nice neighborhoods?
    They don't eat. Seriously, single people usually don't have a lot of other expenses (kids, college, etc.) and therefore are able to afford a larger monthly payment and able to save for a down payment. Also, you are only feeding one mouth.

    What % of your income should go to housing payments?
    I want to say that the magic number is between 30% and 40%; obviously the lower it is the better in case you have something bad happen.

    What would be my first steps to getting pre approved?
    You can usually call a reputable mortgage company and they will ask you several questions and check your credit score. You can usually do this over the phone.

    How much of a down payment do I need?
    20% of the total cost is a standard number, but you can sometimes do less

    What features should I look for?
    It depends on your taste. Make sure you have all of the seller disclosures when you are looking around. Don't get suckered by "smart house" features, etc. as those become obsolete really fast. Make sure the house is not overbuilt for the neighborhood. Hard floors are great in living areas for easy clean-up, allergies and are very trendy right now. It really comes down to what you want out of your house.

    What inspections should I have done before hand?
    Usually when you place a property under contract inspections are made on the house. If they find something you consider a deal breaker, you can back out.

    Should I contact a realtor?
    Yes. They have the ability to access databases full of information on all house listings. They are trained professionals and in general make life much easier for both the buyer and seller. (My Mom is a Realtor)

    How much of a “fixer upper” should I get involved with?
    Depends on your workshop talent level, patience, TIME, and how much money you want to spend. If you're not careful, a fixer-upper can turn into a money pit that you never get everything back out of. Try to find one with up-to-date wiring since that can be among the most difficult upgrades on a house. Avoid houses on cement slabs that have plumbing problems. Pier & beam houses are much easier to deal with and are usually more unique.

    Old houses vs New Houses, what is a better deal?
    I always lean toward old houses because they are usually in established neighborhoods. New houses are good because you don't have any repair problems (in theory). You can get a lot of satisfaction out of making little remodels and improvements to old houses.


    I have never purchased a house, but this is stuff a vaguely remember from a real estate class I took and stuff my Mom talks about from work. Hope this helps!

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Figure out what you want/need in a house for your lifestyle -- both 'bare minimum' and "dream house". I knew I needed at least 2 bedrooms but wanted 3 and preferred an open floor plan so I could cook and keep an eye on my young children. We narrowed it down to really only one neighborhood where we could afford a three bedroom house. We looked at 6 houses in about the first week and then made a bid. It got the house I wanted and never had "buyer's remorse" because I was very clear about my needs, my wants, what we could afford, etc. I loved that house -- truly -- and it was very hard to leave it.

    Mine was a fixer-upper -- it was the only way I could afford a three bedroom. For a first time buyer, I recommend going for a fixer that mostly needs superficial cosmetic stuff. Leave the major overhauls to folks who know what they are doing and have the money to transform the place on that scale. (Just my 2 cents -- and if you have carpentry experience, relatives who work in the trades who would gladly help out, etc. you might feel differently.)

    I have known people who house-hunted for 10 months. We closed about 6 weeks after deciding we wanted to buy -- so I don't get that. But some people do shop for a long time. So I don't see any reason to not contact a realtor now and ask them some of the questions you have posted here.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian JNL's avatar
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    Looks like there's some good advice here already. I heard that you should aim to spend no more than 25% of your income on house payments.

    A good idea when you start seriously looking, especially if you are viewing several places in one day, is to take a notebook and make notes on the places you visit. Otherwise they all get jumbled up in your memory! A digital camera can be useful too.

    It's quite common here to get 95% mortgages but lots of people aim to put down a 10% deposit.

    Make sure you don't stretch yourself so much that you're skint after putting down the deposit, as you will need some cash for initial expenses like household items you don't have, and fees for various people.

    And remember, the real estate agents (realtors) will act like your best friend, but really they just want the SALE!

    I owned a house for a while...

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    As a general rule, your housing payment should not be more than about a third of your monthly income, and your total monthly debt payments should not be more than 45% of your monthly income. Work with a reputable bank. Approach them at the start of your search and ask to be pre-qualified. They can tell you the maximum house you can afford and what your monthly payment will be. You can decide for yourself which of the mortgage products works best and how much you want to spend.

    Don't feel oblidged to make any down-payment. If you put down less than 20%, you will likely need to have a first mortgage for the first 80%, and a second mortgage on the balance. You will pay a higher rate on the second, plus mortgage insurance, but the rates are still low. I just financed at a blended rate of 6.125% for 30 years, with less than 20% down. My investments, even in the worst year, still offered me a return of about 7.5%. Why should I take that money out to put it down on a home? Remember that as the home appreciates in value and you make mortgage payments, you will quickly build up 20% equity, which might be a good time to refinance with a single mortgage at a lower rate.

    Some things are especially attractive in a home retaining or building value, or when it comes time to re-sell. You will quickly identify them as you spend time searching. Some things you do not want are neighborhoods with a trashy appearance or even where people are frequently parking trailers or RV's in their driveways, locations near busy streets or other noise/safety problems, swimming pools, houses with dated siding materials like asphalt shingles or aluminum, small rooms, etc. On the other hand, curb appeal, wood floors, fireplaces, attractive neighborhoods, etc. will always sell.

    Good luck!
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

  9. #9
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Thanks Michaelskis

    I began this very thread yesterday, but had to focus on something else midway through. Thanks for postiing it, you helped more than yourself, and thanks Cyburbia, for all the information.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN
    ....Thanks for postiing it, you helped more than yourself, and thanks Cyburbia, for all the information.
    Agreed. I'm going to be going through this by myself soon, so I'm keeping an eye on this thread.

  11. #11
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    > First of all, how do single people afford nice houses in nice neighborhoods?

    They 1) make a lot of money, 2) live in a metropolitan area with very cheap housing, 3) bought before the housing price boom, 4) bought before the neighborhood was gentrified or otherwise became "hot", 5) have their parents help with the down payment, which is very common nowadays, and/or 6) used the equity from owning a house in a now-expensive boomtown to upgrade to a larger house in a cheaper metropolitan area.

    As a first-time homebuyer in an average housing market in the US, you can probably afford an okay house in an okay neighborhood, a blah house in a nice neighborhood, or a nice house in a blah neighborhood. Don't forget "drive to qualify" - housing (and often property taxes) is usually cheaper beyond an urbanized area.

    > What % of your income should go to housing payments?

    I've heard 27% to 33%, depending on your income and local housing conditions. My mortgage payments will be about 22% of my income, but after you consider taxes, it's still a healthy chunk of change; about 77% of my take-home pay for the last two-week paycheck of the month. Taxes and homeowner's insurance insurance are usually included in mortgage payments.

    > What would be my first steps to getting pre approved?

    Contact a lender; your real estate agent will probably recommend one. Have two years of W2s and two or three of your most recent pa stubs available. Have a good idea of your assets -- savings, checking and returement -- and your debts. If you feel the interest rate you're being offered is too high, talk 'em down, or find another lender.

    > How much of a down payment do I need?

    With a FHA mortgage, you only need a very small down payment (3% to 5%), but your mortgage rate will be higher than with a conventional mortgage. (A FHA mortage also has other requirements, and the house itself might not qualify unless some improvements are made; for instance, handrails on stairs.)

    For a conventional mortgage, 15% to 20% down is required; lower than that, and you'll have primary mortgage insurance payments that will be paid until you have 20% equity in the house.

    Don't forget closing costs! Surveys, loan application fees, title searches, prepaid tproperty taxes, and other goodies.

    > What features should I look for?

    That's a tough one. Consider what you DON'T like in other places you've lived and visited during your life, and try to find a place with as few pet peeves as possible. It's nearly impossible to find a house that is absolutely perfect, so you may have to trade off one feature for another. The house I'm buying has small bathrooms and overhead utilities in the street, things I'm not a fan of, but it more than makes up for it in other areas. You've seen the pictures.

    Pools aren't bad, but they do require a lot of upkeep. Shocking, chlorination, algaecide, cleaning filters, scrubbing, removing leaves, vacuuming, electricity to maintain a filter/pump that runs a good part of the day, annual draining and refilling (in cold climates), and a guaranteed problem with the filter/pump every couple of months that will require a $75 service call. A broken Creepy Crawly will cost about $100 ro repair, or $500 to replace. Don't get a house with an above-ground pool. The lifespan on them is about 15 years or so.

    > What inspections should I have done before hand?

    An inspection by an ASHI certified inspector is a must. The initial contract you sign with a home seller will be contingent upon repair of selected defeciencies found during an inspection. A good inspector will nitpick and find EVERYTHING wrong with the house, from foundation issues to loose switchplates. Something major, which can cost thousands to repair, is justification for breaking the contract and getting your earnest money returned. You negotiate minor repairs with the home seller; if repairs cost less than $1,000 or so, they should fix them at their cost. I don't know anyone who has ever broken a contract because a homeowner woudn't perform requested minor repairs, but I'm sure it's happened.

    A good inspector is invaluable. I got out of a contract for a house because the foundation was found to be unstable, and would have required $20,000 or more to fix.

    An additional boring insect inspection may be required in areas with termite or carpenter ant problems.

    > Should I contact a realtor?

    I visit open houses -- in my approximate price range --- in neighborhoods where I'm looking for a house, and talk with real estate agents there. I collect cards, and get a feel for who has a good grasp of the market and the neighborhoods.

    A few real estate agents don't like working with first-time homebuyers, because commissions are lower on $100,000 starter homes than $500,000 tract mansions. If you visit an open house for a $1,000,000 mansion, and tell the real estate agent at the site you're in the market for a $80K house, you'll probably get the brush-off.

    > How much of a “fixer upper” should I get involved with?

    My POV - cosmetic only. If you can fix a house with incremental, small, lost-cost improvements that won't require loans, go for it. We're talking paint, carpet, stripping woodwork, sanding and refinishing hardwood floors, landscaping, a new toilet, that sort of thing. Updating a dysfunctional 1940s kitchen or a pink 1950s bathroom can cost $10K or more; a bit less with your labor, but you'll be without a kitchen for MONTHS. Trust me on this. Structural issues and termites - stay far, far away.

    > Old houses vs New Houses, what is a better deal?

    Depends on what fits your lifestyle, really. Consider that a newer house will probably be more energy-efficient. Older houses may be appealing, and often structurally overengineered, but you may have to deal with ...

    * Antiquated electrical systems: only one or two outlets in each room, no 220 volt service, few grounded outlets, chain light switches.
    * Small bedrooms, and very small closets, if any - people in the 1920s apparently only had one shirt, one pair of pants, and one suit.
    * Awkward floorplans in pre-WW1 houses, especially where there's no delineation of private and public space; the only bath is off the kitchen, bedrooms may be off the dining room or living room, and so on.
    * Not being able to move furniture up a flight of stairs! Large mattresses were rare before the 1950s, and stairs and hallways may be positioned in a way where you can't get a queen or king size mattress or box spring up them!
    * Televisions were uncommon before the 1950s. Rooms may be laid out in a way that make it impossible to arrange furniture for convenient viewing of the idiot box. (JordanB - do NOT post pad and say that it's okay, because it doesn't matter to you. )

    Newer houses?

    * Less quirkiness and charm, if you're into that.
    * Doors may be hollow, not solid.
    * Walls may be drywall, not harder plaster.
    * Ceilings may be a bit lower (8' versus 8' 6" or more in a pre-WWII house), at least in houses without cathedral ceilings.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  12. #12
    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    My 2 cents as an ex mortgage broker/real estate agent (97 to 2000)…

    What % of your income should go to housing payments?

    25-35% (your backend is more important...talk to a loan officer).

    What would be my first steps to getting pre approved?

    Go talk to a loan officer at both banks and lenders and get a pre-qual letter and a Good Faith Estimate.

    How much of a down payment do I need?

    Entirely up to you. You can put as little as 0 down with some loans. FHA standard is 3%. Traditional loans are at 5%. You avoid mortgage insurance at 20%.

    What features should I look for?

    Preference.

    What inspections should I have done before hand?

    Get the SELLER to pay for a certified inspector. Your agent or broker will have a list of people to call…don’t call them. Ask around your office; find the name of a “good” inspector.

    Should I contact a realtor?

    I am bias, but yes, yes, and yes. It is possible to do it on your own, but a realtor will save you a ton of head ache and knows some tricks to help you, plus the seller pays the commission, not you. And (personally) I don’t trust “For Sale Buy Owners”…they seem to always think their house is worth more than it really is…and are ignorant to the laws (sorry, you are).

    How much of a “fixer upper” should I get involved with?

    Preference. Sweat equity is a good way to buy cheap and make money on your first home. But it can also be a royal pain. Think through this one.

    Old houses vs New Houses, what is a better deal?

    Depends on your area. (ask your agent).

  13. #13
    Cyburbian biscuit's avatar
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    Having spent 3 years working for a real estate office I can say that you have some good advice from those above, especially from H, whom if I remember correctly used to work for a home mortgage office. As for how much you should spend on a home... The general rule used at our office was that it's best to not take on a mortgage that is more than 3 times your yearly income.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman
    What % of your income should go to housing payments?
    I want to say that the magic number is between 30% and 40%; obviously the lower it is the better in case you have something bad happen.
    AHAHAAHA YOU'RE SO FUNNY!! :-} :-} :-}


    Oh wait, you mean in Kalamazoo....

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jordanb
    AHAHAAHA YOU'RE SO FUNNY!! :-} :-} :-}

    Oh wait, you mean in Kalamazoo....
    The Fannie Mae guideline when I bought my first house was, no more than 28% for housing, and no more than 36% for total bills including mortgage and utilities, in order to get the best rates. You can of course get loans with higher debt ratios, you just pay a higher interest rate due to the increased risk to the lender.

    Most people Michael's age, with student loans, will fall into that higher rate category, but their earnings potential certainly looks good to the lenders too.

    I agree with alot of the advice said before though. Definitely have a rpequalification statement from a lender or mortgage broker before seeing an agent. They by law are reppresentatives of the seller (NEVER forget this!) and *love* to tell a seller you're pre-qualified in an amount that exceeds their asking price. Believe it or not, their tactic gives you some power too, as you can move on elsewhere if the seller holds out.

    H is generally right about the mortgage insurance threshold, but it also depends on your income to loan value. I have had two homes, both mortgages were 5% down but the loan amount was less than 1:1 of my annual income (compared to the 3:1 mentioned by Biscuit), so in neither case did I have to pay for PMI.

    Funny as it seems to everyone that has ever heard this, I also never had an insurance or property tax escrow requirement.

    I do disagree with H on which party pays for the inspection - if they pay, they own it, and do not have to release it to you. In a seller market, they will also tell you to pound sand. If they dont, and they find the results undersireable, they can rehire a different firm with a different result, and release that report to you, and you'll never know of the first report. Always be the payer of, and owner of, the inspection reports. Side note: Even in Wisconsin, I had to have a termite inspection prior to my last loan approval. Count on spending the extra $$ and be happy if you dont have to.

    Sellers often provide a home waranty. When I sold my last (75 year old) house, I gave the buyers a full zero-deductible two year warranty that covered EVERYTHING and it cost me less than $400 out of my closing proceeds. Look for these gems, they are not always at the top of the listing, and unless your agent is also the home's listing agent, you may never hear of it.

    related topic:

    There was recently a local media story about "buddy buying" where two good friends buy a home or duplex in a limited partnership in order to save $$ and build equity, then sell and move up. If you have a good friend with good earnings, and you are a tolerant sort, consider that when your lease is up.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chet
    I do disagree with H on which party pays for the inspection - if they pay, they own it, and do not have to release it to you. In a seller market, they will also tell you to pound sand. If they dont, and they find the results undersireable, they can rehire a different firm with a different result, and release that report to you, and you'll never know of the first report. Always be the payer of, and owner of, the inspection reports. Side note: Even in Wisconsin, I had to have a termite inspection prior to my last loan approval. Count on spending the extra $$ and be happy if you dont have to.
    I wonder if this is a state by state issue? I never heard of an unrealeased statement. Normaly, in Ga, after the contract was signed, the seller would pay about $200-300, the buyer would then choose/hire the inspector and then both parties would recieve a copy of the report at the same time (via mail or fax) from the inspector. Actually, most of the time the buyer (my clients) and the agent (me) would be present at the time of the inspection and recieve a copy on the spot. True the seller could refuse to fix anything in the report, but then the contract becomes void...Atl was a seller's market in the late 90's but this was the local norm. and the seller generally agreed to most 'reasonable' repairs.

    If the buyer did not have the house inpected they had to sign waiver...this was never advised.

    Although sometimes the buyer did have to pay...this was a negotiation.

    Quote Originally posted by Chet
    Sellers often provide a home waranty. When I sold my last (75 year old) house, I gave the buyers a full zero-deductible two year warranty that covered EVERYTHING and it cost me less than $400 out of my closing proceeds. Look for these gems, they are not always at the top of the listing, and unless your agent is also the home's listing agent, you may never hear of it.
    absolutely, another reason an agent is helpful, to point these items you might miss out. homewarrenties were almost standard in ATL by 2000...I assume they still are, but each market has different 'standards'...but they all offer this...
    Last edited by H; 08 Sep 2004 at 11:11 PM.

  17. #17
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jordanb
    AHAHAAHA YOU'RE SO FUNNY!! :-} :-} :-}


    Oh wait, you mean in Kalamazoo....
    Sorry, I should have clarified earlier that I was lumping all of the housing expenses together in my earlier post.

    I'm still trying to figure out why jordanb thinks this is really funny or is sarcastically laughing... :-S

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  18. #18
    Cyburbian PlannerByDay's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Oh and PlannerByDay, do you still have that Rancher for sale, if so PM me the asking price and the address so I can see the neighborhood.
    My house is currently not for sale . However next year about the time your looking for a house is when me and the future Mrs. PBD will begin considering looking for a house to call "our own"

    My house is located in Kalamazoo, not sure if you want to be in K-zoo or not. I am on Westnedge Hill.

    If you go to the
    City of Kalamazoo website

    Do a property search for homes on "Whitcomb" and you should be able to find me.

    If you can't I'll PM you more details.
    Last edited by PlannerByDay; 09 Sep 2004 at 10:40 AM.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian biscuit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman
    I'm still trying to figure out why jordanb thinks this is really funny or is sarcastically laughing... :-S
    [channeling jordanb]
    Do you have any idea how much it cost to buy an inner city loft style home that’s within walking distance to all conceivable amenities and directly across the street from a super-efficient, intermodal mass-transit station? Of course you don't. I too laugh at your 30%-40%, you piece of naive, SUV driving, resource wasting, suburban bourgeois scum.
    [/channeling jordanb]

    I couldn't imagine living anywhere that cost me more than 40% of my monthly net income. Unless your taking home a pretty big chunk of change on pay day, it just seems a waste to spend so much. To be honest that's why I took a job in Western Pennsylvania instead of Washington, D.C..$1,000+ for a smallish one bedroom apartment on a planners salary... No thank you! (No offence to those in D.C.)
    Last edited by biscuit; 09 Sep 2004 at 11:20 AM.

  20. #20
         
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    The rule of thumb in the affordable housing arena says anyone spending more than 30% of their gross income on housing (inclusive of utilities,insurance, maintenance, mortgage) is considered "housing burdened" and not in affordable housing. Also, remember to avoid the "drive unitl you qualify" syndrome - i.e., don't forget to factor in your transportation costs for commuting into your housing location choice.


    What % of your income should go to housing payments?

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by sbeamer
    The rule of thumb in the affordable housing arena says anyone spending more than 30% of their gross income on housing (inclusive of utilities,insurance, maintenance, mortgage) is considered "housing burdened" and not in affordable housing. Also, remember to avoid the "drive unitl you qualify" syndrome - i.e., don't forget to factor in your transportation costs for commuting into your housing location choice.


    What % of your income should go to housing payments?
    I think this is somewhat subjective. Think of it this way:

    28% of your income is collected by the government to give hand-outs to seniors, subsidize SUVs, and kill foreigners. 36% of your income comes to you in a check more-or-less every two weeks. If you spent every other check on your housing expense, will the other check be enough to cover your costs of food, entertainment, clothing, SUV payment, cable TV, telephone, beer, and other expenses? If so, then you are in affordable housing. Remember also that housing is not just an expense, it is an investment. You are building equity by paying off the mortgage and by your home appreciating in value.
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

  22. #22
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by biscuit
    [channeling jordanb]
    Do you have any idea how much it cost to buy an inner city loft style home that’s within walking distance to all conceivable amenities and directly across the street from a super-efficient, intermodal mass-transit station? Of course you don't. I too laugh at your 30%-40%, you piece of naive, SUV driving, resource wasting, suburban bourgeois scum.
    [/channeling jordanb]
    Oh, right, I forgot he was one of those lucky people that lives where you can live without a car. My bad!

    The "channeling of jordanb" was pretty funny though (no offense jordanb).

    He does raise a point that you should definitely factor in expenses that will be eliminated based on where you live, such as with jordanb. That will allow you to bump up the percent going towards housing since eliminating things like cars reduces debt and other expenses like gas.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario Canada
    Posts
    7

    Friendly advice

    Just a friendly advice ! Please be very careful and check in details before you make the commitment to buy, and take your friends to see the place. Listening to other's always pays !















    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman
    Oh, right, I forgot he was one of those lucky people that lives where you can live without a car. My bad!

    The "channeling of jordanb" was pretty funny though (no offense jordanb).

    He does raise a point that you should definitely factor in expenses that will be eliminated based on where you live, such as with jordanb. That will allow you to bump up the percent going towards housing since eliminating things like cars reduces debt and other expenses like gas.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario Canada
    Posts
    7

    Very friendly people !

    I have had some very pleasant experience dealing with these people ! See this website and they will help. vistahorizons.com











    Quote Originally posted by biscuit
    [channeling jordanb]
    Do you have any idea how much it cost to buy an inner city loft style home that’s within walking distance to all conceivable amenities and directly across the street from a super-efficient, intermodal mass-transit station? Of course you don't. I too laugh at your 30%-40%, you piece of naive, SUV driving, resource wasting, suburban bourgeois scum.
    [/channeling jordanb]

    I couldn't imagine living anywhere that cost me more than 40% of my monthly net income. Unless your taking home a pretty big chunk of change on pay day, it just seems a waste to spend so much. To be honest that's why I took a job in Western Pennsylvania instead of Washington, D.C..$1,000+ for a smallish one bedroom apartment on a planners salary... No thank you! (No offence to those in D.C.)

  25. #25

    Registered
    May 1997
    Location
    Williston, VT
    Posts
    1,371
    All this seriousness and buying into the system. The 30% rule is an invitation to lifelong servitude to people whose best interests are very definitely not yours.

    Nobody your age should invest that much in shelter. Spend it on skiing, travel, wild women, and continuing your education (in all sorts of ways). Enough time later to worry about cleaning the leaves out of the gutters, etc., etc.

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