The non-political political thread

[Maister]

The presidential election season in the US is really heating up now. You can see it on the TV ads, you can hear it around the water cooler and, gosh, even read it here at Cyburbia. Personally, I sometimes get a little tired of all the partisanship so I'd like to introduce a thread where folks can stand side by side throwing tomatoes at the techniques used by everyone and every party in the political process.

Here's how it works - no matter how reasonable, understandable, or justifiable a position or stance anyone takes there is ALWAYS a sin to counter any virtue which can be touted. For example, if democrats suggest, say, pursuing some measure to protect the fiscal solvency of social security (or for that matter any social program) you can accuse them of being a "TAX AND SPEND LIBERAL". Likewise, if Republicans suggest enacting any sort of law enforcement measure which could conceivably result in an improvement to public safety or security they are "DESTROYING OUR FREEDOMS AND TURNING US INTO A POLICE STATE".
If a politician kisses babies then they are open to accusations of being Michael Jackson's friend....you get the idea.
Extra points to those who demonstrate the wherewithal/willingness to come up with ridiculous examples which the party of their own allegiance has indulged in.

[Chet]

I am discovering that living in a swing state really sucks! Between Bush, Kerry, Cheney, Edwards, Ridge, the twins, et.al. stumping though town *allways at rush hour* can paralyze a city faster than cryptosporidium!

[Dan]

I am discovering that living in a swing state really sucks! Between Bush, Kerry, Cheney, Edwards, Ridge, the twins, et.al. stumping though town *allways at rush hour* can paralyze a city faster than cryptosporidium!

So far, Bush has made three visits to the county where I work; there's a very wealthy supporter that holds dinners for the president in a palacial mansion.in one of the old-miney estate communities.

Bush and Kerry make regular visits to Cleveland, and the campaign ads -- Bush, Kerry, Media Fund, Swift Boat Veterans, etc -- saturate the airwaves.

The most interesting thing I've noticed is precision attacks by the Republicans against Kerry for things that are obviously false or distorted, but which can't be defended in a quick soundbite, for example voting against a defense package that is bundled with a lot of pork. Voters don't understand bundling of legislation; they only understand simple soundbytes claiming Kerry voting against the supply of flack jackets, or something like that. To defend his position would take more than five or six words, something that would make the eyes of the #3 Forever crowd glaze over, and reinforce his stereotype of being long-winded.

Another thing I noticed are high-school style attacks; something that takes advantage of our most base instincts. An example would be insisting that Kerry did something when he proved that he didn't. The equivalent in the high school halls is:

Antagonist: "You're a faggot! Queer! Queer!"
Victim: "Hey, I'm not gay! Here's my girlfriend!
Victim's girlfriend: "I'm really his girlfriend. Look! (kisses boyfriend)
Antagonist: "Queer! Queer! Homo! Buttpirate!"
Bandwagon: "Faggot! Gaywad! Fudgepacker!"

(I'm using that language in context, folks. No offense intended towards Cyburbia's gay community.)

Let's face it - the Republicans have a better propaganda machine, and they've masterd spin to a very fine art.

[pete-rock]

I am discovering that living in a swing state really sucks! Between Bush, Kerry, Cheney, Edwards, Ridge, the twins, et.al. stumping though town *allways at rush hour* can paralyze a city faster than cryptosporidium!

Meanwhile, living in a "red" or "blue" state must be a lonely existence right now.

Bush writes off Illinois because he knows he can't win. Kerry puts Illinois in his back pocket because he knows he's got it safely. No crazy ads by either side, no visits -- and no voice for the state, despite who wins.

[Maister]

The most interesting thing I've noticed is precision attacks by the Republicans against Kerry for things that are obviously false or distorted, but which can't be defended in a quick soundbite, for example voting against a defense package that is bundled with a lot of pork. Voters don't understand bundling of legislation; they only understand simple statements soundbytes claiming Kerry voting against the supply of flack jackets, or something like that. To defend his position would take more than five or six words, something that would make the eyes of the #3 Forever crowd glaze over, and reinforce his stereotype of being long-winded.

This is something every senator or congressman (regardless of party affiliation) is vulnerable to. And both parties campaigns have used it to great effect particularly over the last 3 decades. For some reason there is a widely held misconception that bills are introduced with only one item on them as if the process went something like "S.B. 259 The fed govt. should appropriate $ 50 Million for flackjackets for troops in the Iraqi theatre - all in favor say aye......". Instead, we have a bill crafted by 8 different special interest groups which includes funding for distributing anti-abortion literature, including voluntary NRA membership boxes on income tax returns and $8 billion funding for research into differences in primate soft palate vocalization research!
Oh, I just thought of another popular smear technique - if one's opponent does anything at all to aid any minority, group, organization, industry, PAC or you name it then they are guilty of "pandering to special interest groups" or are a "pawn of ------"

[Rumpy Tunanator]

Meanwhile, living in a "red" or "blue" state must be a lonely existence right now.

Bush writes off Illinois because he knows he can't win. Kerry puts Illinois in his back pocket because he knows he's got it safely. No crazy ads by either side, no visits -- and no voice for the state, despite who wins.

I know the feeling.

[michaelskis]

It bugs me when the make a campaign stop... it F's over traffic for several hours before and after they leave. It does not matter who it is, both are guilty.

Another thing that drives me crazy is all the commercials on TV. COME ON PEOPLE, I want to see the Budweiser horses playing foot ball, or a Ford Focus getting all mad because his owner busted his leg in a snowboarding accident and can't drive.

Finally, what is it with all of the signs. (Maister will agree with me) It drives me crazy when they put the signs in the public right of way. Some one will call to complain about their opponent, and Master or my self will go out there and fill up our FREAKIN CAR with 100,000,000 lawn signs. Is their end to the sign craziness?

Oh and don't even get me started on the flyers that get mailed, people going around saying this about one candidate and not the other, and wasting my time. What about the issues that we want to hear about? What about public transportation? What about downtown redevelopment.

[biscuit]

Oh and don't even get me started on the flyers that get mailed, people going around saying this about one candidate and not the other, and wasting my time. What about the issues that we want to hear about? What about public transportation? What about downtown redevelopment.

Issues? Didn't you know that there are only two issues in this election? Vietnam and Ketchup my son, everything else is just filler.

[pete-rock]

Let's face it - the Republicans have a better propaganda machine, and they've masterd spin to a very fine art.

No question about it. The Republicans have mastered the art of fine-tuning all sorts of issues (and attacks) into easily digestible morsels for public consumption.

I think they've also mastered the art of being the aggressor, in campaigns and in office -- always establishing the terms of the issue and debate and forcing Democrats to always react.

In all honesty, I think that years of being the minority party forced the GOP to be very strategic in developing its agenda, and that years of being the majority party has forced the Dems to take a "big tent" stand on everything.

[Dan]

I think they've also mastered the art of being the aggressor, in campaigns and in office -- always establishing the terms of the issue and debate and forcing Democrats to always react..

What's fascinating is that, while being aggressive, they've also done a fantastic job of playing the victim. Look at the cries of "liberal media!", "thought police!" or "Christians are being oppressed!", for instance. Listen to a conservative talk show, and it's all liberal media this, Daschle that, Hillary something else -- it sounds as if liberals really control the executive, legislative and judicial branches of our government.

Considering that conservatives supposedy reject victimization in favor of personal responsibility --witness the pundits reaction toany activity from victimization-entrenched organizations such as the NAACP and NOW -- the fact that righties can pull off the victim angle so effectively without being called on it is nothing short of amazing. The right can accouse the left of playing the victim card, but for some reason it doesn't work the other way around. Again, it's something that would take more than a soundbite for liberals to counter, and middle America likes their politics in easy-to-bite morsels.

[nuovorecord]

No question about it. The Republicans have mastered the art of fine-tuning all sorts of issues (and attacks) into easily digestible morsels for public consumption.

I think they've also mastered the art of being the aggressor, in campaigns and in office -- always establishing the terms of the issue and debate and forcing Democrats to always react.

In all honesty, I think that years of being the minority party forced the GOP to be very strategic in developing its agenda, and that years of being the majority party has forced the Dems to take a "big tent" stand on everything.

A fascinating book on this subject is "What's the Matter with Kansas", by Thomas Frank. It looks at how the GOP has appealed to voters in the "Red States", even at the cost of their economic self-interests.

I am so sick of this election and the mud-slinging that's been going on. Our country is facing security issues, economic concerns, educational problems, etc. Yet, the election headlines revolve around what did or didn't happen in the Vietnam War, Texas Natl. Guard, etc. Do we really care? Please, is this the best we can do for leaders? I'm voting for Kerry, but with a clothespin on my nose.

[iamme]

Some one will call to complain about their opponent, and Master or my self will go out there and fill up our FREAKIN CAR with 100,000,000 lawn signs.

Are you into something we don't know about?

[Dan]

Are you into something we don't know about?

You know, I'm surprised that a campaign hasn't used opposition to political sign proliferation to hurt the other candidate. A hypothetical example: Kerry supporters putting HUNDREDS of Bush signs in a row along a scenic road, or Bush supporters posting Kerry signs on lawns without the permission of property owners.

[iamme]

You know, I'm surprised that a campaign hasn't used opposition to political sign proliferation to hurt the other candidate. A hypothetical example: Kerry supporters putting HUNDREDS of Bush signs in a row along a scenic road, or Bush supporters posting Kerry signs on lawns without the permission of property owners.

Hmmmmmm, note to self...

[ludes98]

The City of Tempe and Arizona State University will be hosting one of the presidential debates next month. Not looking forward to that traffic nightmare! RNC and DNC get the lion's share of tickets to distribute. No tickets are available to the general public.

[thestip]

I know the feeling.

Enjoy it while you can Rumpy, these parts are going to see all kinds of big name politikos running around for the next month and a half, not because of the Presidential election but because of two Republican Congressmen from Hamburg and Corning retiring. And the other Republican Congressman from Clarence who happens to be in charge of getting GOP members elected around the country is going to try his damdest to make sure the two seats in his area get filled with GOP members.

Now if only we could get some special election money to come this way...

[zman]

Meanwhile, living in a "red" or "blue" state must be a lonely existence right now.

Bush writes off Illinois because he knows he can't win. Kerry puts Illinois in his back pocket because he knows he's got it safely. No crazy ads by either side, no visits -- and no voice for the state, despite who wins.

Reverse the names, and you've got Colorado.
We just have the Senate race ads going here, which include the owner of Coors beer (he's a republican and I have since been torn between my ideals and my thirst)

[Bear Up North]

Way too much negative campaigning. But.....it seems to work with those that have made up their mind.

Being an obsessive list maker I like to make the list of all the issues, rate their importance to me, check off the candidate's position.

Then, place the list in the oven, with a big brick. Roast at 375 for 45 minutes. When done, throw away the list and eat the brick.
_____

Seriously.....vote Libertarian.

Bear Waiting For Secret Off-Shore Nigerian Ballot

[Queen B]

I will tell you what is wrong with KS.
It is a Republican State. So what is the point in voting, if you are voting against the Rep Party it is a wasted vote. I still vote but have no real feeling of accomplishment as I know my one vote in Kansas is futile.

[chrisinmd]

Let's face it - the Republicans have a better propaganda machine, and they've masterd spin to a very fine art.

The Dems need to bring in Clinton's people--now they out-propagandaized the Republicans. Slicky Willy knew how to beat those two bit lying bas$%)s. I am not thrilled with Bush & Co. I think the neo-cons are nuts and Bush is a rich man's son who never really accompolished much on his own, he ran a couple of businesses into the ground and always got bailed out of trouble. Who is going to bail this coutry out of all the trouble he has caused. I am voting for Kerry, I think someone who has gotten shot at a few times appreciates what is like to go to war and frankly I think he is smarter than Bush. I not jumping up and down about Kerry but I am really worried about where Bush is taking the country, both foreign policy wise and internally.