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  1. #26
    There are people there! Actual live people, outside. The little girls on the bench eating ice cream or gellato really sold me on the success of the place. Imagine if this were just regular suburbia, they would be jailed in their parents' back yards (because back yards are so good for children).

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    There are people there! Actual live people, outside. The little girls on the bench eating ice cream or gellato really sold me on the success of the place. Imagine if this were just regular suburbia, they would be jailed in their parents' back yards (because back yards are so good for children).
    After having been in Charlotte for a week or two, I remarked to a Charlottean that I had never been in a place where people spent so little time outdoors. You should have heard his apoplectic expostulations at that; Charlotteans think they are outdoorsmen. In fact the bulk of time most Charlotteans spend outdoors is walking in parking lots.

    I bet you could prove that statistically.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    There are people there! Actual live people, outside. The little girls on the bench eating ice cream or gellato really sold me on the success of the place. Imagine if this were just regular suburbia, they would be jailed in their parents' back yards (because back yards are so good for children).
    I have a feeling that these people who are outside on the streets are only there because its the "thing" to do now. I wouldn't be too surprised if the people at Birkdale get tired of hanging out on the streets in a few years. My prediction is that 5 to 10 years from now, those streets will be empty. I might be being a bit too pesemistic here, but I think that their true subruban colors will soon come through.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally posted by asohn
    I have a feeling that these people who are outside on the streets are only there because its the "thing" to do now. I wouldn't be too surprised if the people at Birkdale get tired of hanging out on the streets in a few years. My prediction is that 5 to 10 years from now, those streets will be empty. I might be being a bit too pesemistic here, but I think that their true subruban colors will soon come through.
    Yeah, but do suburbanites stop hanging out at the Mall after a few years, or does the management refresh things with a fresh crop of shops, some paint and a new fountain? Coconut Grove, which bears some similarities to Birkdale, just keeps on evolving.

    http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showt...hlight=coconut

  5. #30
    Cyburbian Howard Roark's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by asohn
    I have a feeling that these people who are outside on the streets are only there because its the "thing" to do now. I wouldn't be too surprised if the people at Birkdale get tired of hanging out on the streets in a few years. My prediction is that 5 to 10 years from now, those streets will be empty. I might be being a bit too pesemistic here, but I think that their true subruban colors will soon come through.



    Forgive me if I am reading you wrong, but are you saying that suburbia is a social condition that people gravitate to, and not a function of design?

    Can you qualify that?

  6. #31
    Quote Originally posted by Howard Roark
    Forgive me if I am reading you wrong, but are you saying that suburbia is a social condition that people gravitate to, and not a function of design?

    Can you qualify that?
    What I was saying is that the people who live in Birkdale most probably came from a suburb where the spent all their time indoors. Once people with a suburban mentality move into a more urban context, such as Birkdale, they may be inclined to experiment with the urban life, but at the end of the day, they still run back to their cozy house on the cul-de-sac. How many times can someone eat at that one restuarant or shop at the Banana Republic? The only thing that will probably keep people on the main street in the long term is the housing on the street, which is probably one of the most redeeming qualities of this development.

    Quote Originally posted by ablarc
    Yeah, but do suburbanites stop hanging out at the Mall after a few years, or does the management refresh things with a fresh crop of shops, some paint and a new fountain? Coconut Grove, which bears some similarities to Birkdale, just keeps on evolving.

    http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showt...hlight=coconut
    Of course that may happen, and hopefuly it will, but we've all heard of the countless malls that were once flodded with shoppers that now lay vacant.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 11 Jul 2005 at 4:57 PM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally posted by asohn
    Of course that may happen, and hopefuly it will, but we've all heard of the countless malls that were once flodded with shoppers that now lay vacant.
    Partly that's because folks are now starting to look for an experience that somewhat resembles the main street of a town.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally posted by ablarc
    Partly that's because folks are now starting to look for an experience that somewhat resembles the main street of a town.
    Just as suburbanites were once much more interested in malls. This may just be today's incarnation of the 80s/90s mall.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally posted by asohn
    Just as suburbanites were once much more interested in malls. This may just be today's incarnation of the 80s/90s mall.
    Maybe, but let's hope not. I agree with you that the key's a permanent population (already partly there). You could built dense housing and more ground floor retail in the peripheral parking lots of Birkdale, wrapped around multistory midblock parking structures. In fifty years, after Peak Oil, you might have a fully contained town such as the thousands that once existed in this land.

    Goodbye, the SUV.

  10. #35

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    Let's hope so, although I question we can support 300 million people in a toxins-filled post industrial, post cheap food America.

    Hello Mad Max. After all, given the loss of the God-given right to continuous prosperity and ever larger SUVs, the former suburbanites will need somebody to blame. Fire and brimstone (or silly Marxism) can provide that.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    ...given the loss of the God-given right to continuous prosperity and ever larger SUVs, the former suburbanites will need somebody to blame.
    You can blame everything on the liberals.

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