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Thread: A lesson for the Democrats

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    A lesson for the Democrats

    Why did the Democrats show so miserably in this election? They should have won the White House and taken back the senate. This is a weak president who has engendered deep hatred in a significant part of the electorate.

    In my estimation, the loss came down to one thing: a MESSAGE.

    Republicans have had a message since the time of Reagan - lower the taxes, smallen the the government and defeat the Evil Empire.

    Newt had his Contract on Amercia.

    Doubya has "America, be afraid."

    The Democrats have responded by paying lip service to a handful of outdated special interest ideas, and a unified "but we are not George Bush."

    The American electorate will not vote for a Democrat simply because he is not George Bush. A candidate needs to stand for something. He needs to provide a vision. Over and over, Democrats, individually and as a party, have failed to do that. That is why they lost and why they will continue to lose.
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    AGREED.

    While the message is clear to the active lefties and Dems, to the average middle of the road or apathetic American, there is really nothing to sway them to the left.
    The powers that be have a solid message (I won't say policy, b/c I personally don't agree with it) while the Dems do have "we're not Republicans."
    Also with influential radio hosts and other extreme conservative outlets thinking for much of the nation, it is easy to sway some confused souls out there.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    I keep asking myself: What illness hath Clinton wrought upon our beautiful country?

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Seabishop's avatar
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    Yup. In another thread, I thought Bush would win becuase he has the most "simple" message. That won out even though he had his ass kicked in 3 debates. The message to future presidents is that "staying the course" and being as simple as possible works wonders. We have all heard the last of persuasive and factual arguments on the national stage.

    Over the next 4 years the Dems have to just sit back and wait for bad things to happen.

    My question is how did Kerry do worse than Gore who was even more of a non-inspiring candidate and who had Nader getting more votes?

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Seabishop

    My question is how did Kerry do worse than Gore who was even more of a non-inspiring candidate and who had Nader getting more votes?
    Gore got votes because people actually supported him. When it came time to step into the booth, the people balked on Kerry. They just couldn't vote for a guy they know nothing about, just because he isn't George Bush. With George Bush you knw where you stand.

    And the Nader thing....I think so many of his supporters were so pissed at the left for challenging his name on the ballot, they either voted for Dubya or stayed home.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Answer

    Quote Originally posted by Seabishop
    Yup. In another thread, I thought Bush would win becuase he has the most "simple" message. That won out even though he had his ass kicked in 3 debates. The message to future presidents is that "staying the course" and being as simple as possible works wonders. We have all heard the last of persuasive and factual arguments on the national stage.

    Over the next 4 years the Dems have to just sit back and wait for bad things to happen.

    My question is how did Kerry do worse than Gore who was even more of a non-inspiring candidate and who had Nader getting more votes?
    Because he's from Massachusetts and seen as the Kenedy type liberal politician.......I should have stuck with my first reaction in mid 2003 upon hearing that Kerry would be nominated.....(utter disappointment and feeling that the DEM's are idiot savant's)...In fact I think those two words sum up the Democratic party pretty well right now......"IDIOT SAVANT's"

    Think about it....Florida was close because at least Gore was from the South.....
    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
    John Kenneth Galbraith

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Kerry was supposed to lose.

    No way for Hillary to run if he won.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian nerudite's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Seabishop
    My question is how did Kerry do worse than Gore who was even more of a non-inspiring candidate and who had Nader getting more votes?
    I know that this is a little off-topic, but you think that Kerry was more inspiring than Gore? I really didn't like Kerry, but was big on Gore mostly for his environmental record. I remember Gore actually having opinions he could back up with some sort of action plan, even if it was vague. I can't remember Kerry backing up much of his opinions this time around (but I will temper that with the fact that I don't get all the news up here in the Great White North).

  9. #9

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    Well, I agree that Kerry was a laughably weak candidate. I'm not sure what they could have done, because they are quite bereft of ideas. The right knows exactly what they want. Of course, what they want terrifies me, but the Democratic Party is utterly unable to explain a vision.

  10. #10
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    So a majority of American voters wanted another four years of Bush, a president who has

    - driven American public finances into an abyss it will take generations to recover from
    - abused human rights in Iraq and at Guantanamo
    - put America at risk by enraging the whole Muslim world, providing fertile ground for recruitement of new terrorists
    - etc, etc.

    Bush invaded Iraq, without a post-war plan, as a response to 9/11, even though there was no connection between the two. Bush acted against the wrong target, because being resolute and strong was more important to him than being right.

    Iran, and Afghanistan before the fall of the Taliban, have rulers for whom religion and moral high ground, ie "values", are much more important than the actual results of their actions and politics. I'm beginning to feel that the United States belong in this category, too. For example, no ruler of any civilised country should get away with the deaths of almost 100,000 Iraqi civilians in an unjust war. I can understand that Americans want to feel safe, but Bush is not providing safety. Add to this his disastrous environmental and financial records.

    The American people has chosen an incompetent president for another four years, as if he hasn't done enough damage in the first four. As a European, today I feel very far removed from the average American voter. I just can't understand how they think. It is sad and confusing.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Your commentary would be more appropriate on the op-ed pages of the New York Times, I'm curious why you chose here?

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by nierdoi_sseaurou
    As a European, today I feel very far removed from the average American voter. I just can't understand how they think. It is sad and confusing.
    As an American, I feel the same way. I don't know waht else to say; I've been thinking about this all morning, and have too many overlapping thoughts to put them on paper right now.

    Quote Originally posted by Jeff
    Your commentary would be more appropriate on the op-ed pages of the New York Times, I'm curious why you chose here?
    This is the FAC. You can post your opinions regarding the election here. So can nierdoi_sseaurou.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  13. #13
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Jeff
    With George Bush you knw where you stand.
    Dude, W can hardly articulate a cohesive sentence on his own let alone deliver a speech that clearly identifies his position on issues. And when he manages to come up with something it usually has nothing to do with the topic at hand but ends with, "We're stronger. We're getting things done. God bless America." We're getting what done? All I know is that W stands for 1. oil 2. war 3. and restricting women's rights. I'm not saying other politicians don't skirt around issues, but we're not talking about them.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    I'll take a guy who stutters but has strong moral convictions anyday, over a guy who waffles on every issue thrown his way.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Budgie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan
    As an American, I feel the same way. I don't know waht else to say; I've been thinking about this all morning, and have too many overlapping thoughts to put them on paper right now.
    I fear that we are becoming a country of dumb a$$es. Kerry did nothing for me. The us vs them in politics is killing me. In my state, it really doesn't matter how inept you are, if there is a (R) after your name you are in, regardless. It is very sad.

    Oh, a City Commissioner just walked in, I @#$%#$^%&@$%&
    "And all this terrible change had come about because he had ceased to believe himself and had taken to believing others. " - Leo Tolstoy

  16. #16
         
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN
    AGREED.

    While the message is clear to the active lefties and Dems, to the average middle of the road or apathetic American, there is really nothing to sway them to the left.
    The powers that be have a solid message (I won't say policy, b/c I personally don't agree with it) while the Dems do have "we're not Republicans."
    Also with influential radio hosts and other extreme conservative outlets thinking for much of the nation, it is easy to sway some confused souls out there.
    Rush Limbaugh only preaches to the choir. If you want to discuss influential radio hosts that sway some confused souls, look no further than Howard Stern.

  17. #17

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    I'd thought that America under Bush was following the path of Athens attacking Syracuse-or maybe Rome during the transition form "Republic" to "Empire."

    What I see now is that we are like pre-18th century Spain-sliding into a nightmare of Religious fervor, economic stagnation, and cultural austerity. The Spain of El Escorial.

    Bear Flag Republic, anyone?

  18. #18
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    The Democratic Party made a mistake in selecting Kerry. He was not nearly moderate enough to attract the independent voter. Likewise, he never really made clear policy statements or went beyond saying "I have a plan for..." over and over. That's great that you have a plan, but what the hell is it and how will you pay for it.

    A campaign based on "Vote for me because I'm not the other guy" is just plain stupid. If you ask me, the democrats deserved to lose this one.

    Bush did an excellent job of keeping his message simple and playing to his perceived strength, the War on Terror. Kerry was never really able to compete with Bush on that issue or convince the public that he could "keep America safe". Throughout all of the campaigns Kerry pretty much had to fight on Bush's terms and was never able to turn and counter attack using his strengths.

    Well, that's my two cents. Hopefully the dems get straightened out in the next four years; that should be long enough to find a real identity.

    I guess the best I can hope for is that Bush makes some changes in his cabinet. Meanwhile, I will begin packing my bags for when I get called up in a draft.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman GŲring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  19. #19
    Cyburbian nerudite's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman
    I guess the best I can hope for is that Bush makes some changes in his cabinet. Meanwhile, I will begin packing my bags for when I get called up in a draft.
    Casa de Nerudite is open for draft dodgers!

  20. #20
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Jeff
    I'll take a guy who stutters but has strong moral convictions anyday, over a guy who waffles on every issue thrown his way.

    The President doesn't have a speech impediment. He's just not smart, kiddo. And, you're right, the President always takes the high moral ground--especially when killing thousands of innocent Iraqis and sending hundreds of thousands American troops to needlessly sacrifice their lives defending his baseless decision to go to war. And, hey, he's profitting from the war too! I should make a t-shirt--"President Bush--the moralest guy around!" Odds are he'd approve!

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Elisabeth
    The President doesn't have a speech impediment. He's just not smart, kiddo.
    YAWN!

    He is the President of the United States. He must have done something right. Come back when your party can put up a VP Candidate that can actually carry his own state. Geez.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Well if you look at the area that bush won, and at what the people thought were important, it was morals. Bush never hid his strong moral and ethical back ground. Kerry has for the most part good morals and ethics, (some things I do not agree with) but I donít think that he fully showed his good side.

    I think that being that this race was not as close as the last one, I think that if they have a candidate that was more personable and someone that they can relate to better, then they could win. I think that someday Obama will end up being that person. I donít think that it would be in 4 years just because he will not have the experience. I however have been very impressed with the way he can relate to people. As for his morals and ethics, I have no idea where he stands.

    Rudi in 08!

  23. #23
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by nerudite
    Casa de Nerudite is open for draft dodgers!
    I'll be there sipping Molson and going to Tim Hortons.....
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  24. #24
    Cyburbian
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    Lets stop for now the Bush is an idiot, Kerry is a pompous jerk line of thought...its neither true nor helpful to understandign the country...

    I think ultimately the dems and the repubs have the same problem, just so happens the Country has in fact become more conservative over the last 29 years.

    The dems fail to realize (or not value) that the heartland and south in America are religious, family-oriented places, places that value life, low taxes, small government, the military. These folks think the dems scoff at their belief in God, think their stupid and try to throw Hollywoord down their throat.

    The repub fail to realize (or not value) that the two coasts are secular, diverse, concerned about the environment and the arts and that govt has some role to play inour lives. These folks think the repubs are close minded, intolerant and repressed.

    I think for the democratic party they are at a crossroads. Until they value the families of the heartland more than the likes of Barbara Streisand, they will see last night repeat itself.

    The Country's core values are socially conservative--just look at the votes on the 10 or 12 marriage questions last night. This is for better or for worse.

  25. #25
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by nerudite
    Casa de Nerudite is open for draft dodgers!
    When the draft starts again, you'll need to give your address to my two sons.
    Annoyingly insensitive

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