Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Sign behind glass: first pharmacies, now banks!

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Suburban Chicago
    Posts
    451

    Sign behind glass: first pharmacies, now banks!

    We have a brand new national chain pharmacy opening in town, which a lovely building by retail pharmacy standards. However, over the front door is a recessed area (probably 20' x 10') that contains recessed signage (usually bill-board type signs advertising products and services in bright red with white type). This is in addition to the maximum amount of signage allowed on the building and ground signage. Of course, since I've only been in my position here for 6 months, I didn't participate in the review of this project, but this additional signage was obviously not considered and definitely not considered as a sign by our zoning ordinance.

    Last week, we received a visit from a national chain bank and they are proposing a similar scheme which includes a lighted, recessed area near the roofline of the building for the purposes of advertising. The developer said, "it's architecture, not signage." I nearly snorted coffee out my nose.

    Of course, it's behind glass and isn't considered signage in our ordinance. I was shocked, but not surprised, that the banks would now be stealing ideas from the retail pharmacies....in my neck of the woods, there's a chain bank sprouting on every corner not already taken up by a retail pharmacy.

    Nevertheless, I'd like to find an ordinance provision that could help us regulate these sneaky signs. Anyone have some ideas that would help regulate this sort of signage, without introducing ordinance provisions that require our code officer to measure percentage of signs in everyone's windows?

  2. #2
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    West Valley, AZ
    Posts
    3,894
    I want to say I remember an example of this type of sign on Golf Rd, just east of I-290 near a Wal-Mart. It was on a bank.

    Perhaps modifying the sign code to include any signs which are oriented towards the exterior or designed to visibile to the exterior.

    Don't you regulate window signs? Couldn't this be a window sign?
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Seabishop's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,640
    You might not regulate "window signs," but just because a sign is behind glass doesn't make it a "window." You can't just put any sign in back of glass and say it's not a sign anymore.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935
    In codes I've dealt with, if it is mounted to an INTERIOR wall, it doesnt count. If it is just suspended in the window, it counts.

  5. #5
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,513
    Blog entries
    3
    An aside: does anyone have a photo of these types of signs?

  6. #6
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Staff meeting
    Posts
    8,099
    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    An aside: does anyone have a photo of these types of signs?
    "window sign" - 1

    "window sign" - 2
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

    Six seasons and a movie!

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Luca's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,150
    Mendelman:

    1. Those are definitely signs.

    2. I think that large, garish nenn signs are one of the funnest things about American strips. Why limit it?

    How about requiring a high standard of quality and that it be permanenetly lit?
    Life and death of great pattern languages

  8. #8
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Jukin' City
    Posts
    16,377
    Our code considers it a sign if it's "...within two feet of the interior side of a building glass area...." So if it's installed 2'-1" from the glass...ahhh, not a sign.
    RJ is the KING of . The One

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Planning Fool's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Northern, VA
    Posts
    242
    We've had that national chain pharmacy come through our rezoning and special exception process and that display above the entrance qualifies as a sign and must be in conformance with our sign ordinace (allowed square footage). They way we've been able to regulate them is on the fact that they usually propose that sign to be a lighted sign. Depending on where they are located (Commercial Revitalization Areas, abutting residential uses, etc.) we've been able to propose condition prohibiting the sign from being illuminated.
    Prediction is difficult, especially about the future. :-o
    - Yogi Berra

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Fat Cat's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Rockwood, MI
    Posts
    1,398

    Fat Cat

    Its a sign
    You may want to think about revising your sign ordinance if necessary
    Include symbal signs
    Check court decisions for your area
    Think in terms of % for a wall area,
    go on line and check other ordinances
    look in the planners dictionary
    The above are not order
    I have dealt with this signage with another drug store and some other chains, it is getting fairly common and they know better but if they think they can get away with it they will try

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Luca's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,150
    To circumvent a ban on large adverising signs in theointer-war years, the manufacturers of a popular boullion cube (Oxo) built a tower with lit-up windows in the shape of their brand name. The building below it is now mixed-hosuing/retail with a great restuarant at the top. The sign would be msot visible at night.
    Life and death of great pattern languages

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Google Glass
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 1
    Last post: 09 Apr 2013, 9:50 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last post: 01 Jun 2011, 12:59 PM
  3. Replies: 16
    Last post: 30 Jul 2003, 1:50 PM
  4. TDR Banks
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 1
    Last post: 15 May 2003, 9:51 AM
  5. Hello from the Glass City
    Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 10
    Last post: 22 Nov 2002, 2:11 PM