Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 51

Thread: Motor City renaissance

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Columbus,GA
    Posts
    3

    Motor City renaissance

    Motor City renaissance

    After decades of decline, downtown Detroit is getting a makeover in time for the '06 Super Bowl.
    December 2, 2004: 10:30 AM EST
    By Sarah Max, CNN/Money senior writer



    (CNN/Money) While the urban centers in most major U.S. cities are blossoming with loft apartments, gourmet restaurants and pricey boutiques, Detroit has been waiting for its renaissance.

    The city's population, about 950,000 as of the 2000 Census, is half what it was in the 1950s. Grand buildings, such as the 33-story Book-Cadillac Hotel and the 18-story Michigan Central Depot have been vacant for nearly two decades, save for urban explorers and Hollywood directors scouting locations for post-apocalyptic films.

    But finally the city of ruins may be a city on the move.
    "It's a shock when you visit for the first time," said Alexander von Hoffman a senior fellow with Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies and author of "House by House, Block by Block: The Rebirth of America's Urban Neighborhoods" (Oxford University Press). "But you get the sense that the worst has past."

    George Barnes, Jr., who is the founder of Heritage Optical and a Detroit resident of 50 years says he knows the worst is over.

    "I dare say that when Detroit hosts the Super Bowl in 2006 you won't even recognize this city," he said.

    Company headquarters, loft apartments
    General Motors is in the final stages of a $500 million renovation of its new global headquarters at the Renaissance Center, a move that is bringing in thousands of employees from the suburbs.

    In 2003, Compuware moved 4,000 of its employees from its old suburban headquarters to its new downtown headquarters, and other companies are expected to follow.

    "When you have G.M. and Compuware and others putting stakes in the ground it signals that it's not such a big bad place," said Peter Zeiler, Detroit Economic Growth Corporation and an adjunct professor at Wayne State University.

    Housing developers, restauranteurs and retailers are venturing into the city for the first time in decades. In 1994, the city of Detroit issued a handful of residential housing permits, according to Zeiler. He estimates that 3,500 permits will be filed this year.

    "From 1975 to 1990 there was no market for new housing in Detroit," said Bernie Glieberman, founder and president of Crosswinds Communities, a national building and development company based in Novi, Mich. "So we built in the suburbs."

    A few years ago, however, Glieberman returned to Detroit, building new condominiums and lofts near the downtown sports arenas and renovating six nineteenth-century townhomes.

    Glieberman isn't alone.

    In October, residents began moving into Lofts of Merchant Row, a 157-unit loft building on Woodward Avenue. Other historic buildings, including the Kales Building, once headquarters of the S.S. Kresge Company (a.k.a. Kmart), are also being redeveloped into lofts, restaurants and retail centers.

    Home prices reflect the change. Over the past five years, home prices in the Detroit, Ann Arbor and Flint metropolitan area have appreciated by an average of 28 percent, according to Fiserv CSW. Prices in some zip codes in and adjacent to Detroit have appreciated more than 40 percent, significantly more than in the suburbs. (See "America's Hottest Zips")

    Food and entertainment
    "We had employees who were kicking and screaming because we were moving to the city," said Gayle Bonner, who worked in human resources for Compuware during its relocation. "A lot of them had never even been to the city. Then they got down here and realized how much fun they were having," she said.

    Seldom Blues is one of 18 restaurants that opened in Detroit's central business district within the last 18 months.

    Bonner's own condominium, which is in the downtown stadium district, is now a hub of social activity for her suburban friends and family. "When I told people I was moving here they said they would never live here," she recalled. "Now they're here every weekend. My sister in Bloomfield Hills (an affluent Detroit suburb) even asked me if she and her friends could borrow my house."

    Among the attractions are: Comerica Park, the Detroit Tiger's baseball stadium, which opened in 2000; The renovated Fox Theater; Ford Field, which opened in 2002 and will host the Super Bowl in February 2006; Campus Martius Park, which opened in November after a $20 million renovation and is to Detroit what Rockefeller Center is to New York.

    In the past 18 months, 18 new restaurants have opened in Detroit's central business district.

    "I lived in Houston and saw the revitalization there," said Frank Taylor, who co-owns Seldom Blues and Sweet Georgia Brown and plans to open two other restaurants in 2005. "I believe in what's about to happen here."

    Change not without challenges
    Those in the thick of Detroit's new development exude optimism. But, skeptics point out that Detroit has tried to reinvent itself before, and with no success. Crime and racial tension, they say, are just some of the challenges in the way of a bona fide renaissance.

    Morgan Quitno recently released its annual "City Crime Rankings," which uses FBI statistics on murder, rape, robbery and other crime to rank cities. Last year Detroit topped the list as the most dangerous city. This year it ranked second, after Camden, N.J.

    "Yes there are really tough areas, just like in New York, just like in LA., but there are also areas that are unbelievably safe," said Zeiler, adding that Morgan Quitno's rankings don't account for the fact that cities report crime data differently.

    According to statistics for the Detroit Police Department's 1st precinct, which covers the central business district, there have been two homicides this year, and assaults, burglary and robberies are all down even though new neighborhoods have been added to the precinct's detail.

    Stolen cars saw a minor increase, according to Commander Stacy Brackens, but that was largely because restaurant and stadium goers were getting lost. "People are still not familiar with where they are," he said. "This is a different Detroit than it was five years ago."

    Though a common complaint among white suburbanites is that they don't feel welcome in Detroit, where about 80 percent of the population is black, community leaders say (you guessed it) this is a different Detroit, at least in the neighborhoods that are being redeveloped.

    "Go to the new skating rink at Campus Marsius Park and you'll see a mixture of people, white, black, Asian," said Barnes. "It's refreshing. It's nothing like what people think about Detroit."

    Given its size and the number of people who once lived in Detroit, said von Hoffman, it will take time for the city to turn itself around, but it's by no means impossible.

    "It's true that there have been other attempts to revitalize Detroit and they did fail," he said. "But that was then."

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    230
    Detroit..amazing how they just walked away from that fabulous downtown.

    ..and GM moving into the Rennassaince Center. What happened to their old HQ building over on Grand Boulevard & Woodward?

    I will beleive it when I see it, but when I was up in Detroit I was suprised at the total lack on any restored older neighborhoods or yuppie areas in town (unless I missed them). I did like Hamtramck, though...

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Columbus,GA
    Posts
    3
    The old GM HQ is New Center underwent a $120 million renovation by the state and now houses over 2,000 state employees. Detroit has dozens of renovations going on. Many of the homes in Brush Park and other Midtown hoods are being rehabbed or are slated to be rehbbed. Several large in-fill projects are also going in many of the city's negihborhoods as well. In 2003 alone, Detroit issued more than 872 building permits(third highest total in the area) and is on track to crack 1,000 in 2004 for the first time in 50 years. Things are happening in Detroit and it 10 years it will be a different city. BTW, when was the last time you were in Detroit? How could you miss all of the major projects happening downtown like Campus Martius Park, the new Compuware HQ, the Lofts at Merchant's Row, new YMCA, Washington Blvd, Woodward Avenue and Broadway Streetscape projects, the Iodent Building and Kales Building renovations and dozens of smaller renovations happening all over downtown.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian H's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2003
    Location
    MKS
    Posts
    2,847
    Good for Detroit, how is the downtown neon going?

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Columbus,GA
    Posts
    3
    Here are some photos of some of the developments taking place in midtown and downtown Detroit.
    Merchant's Row



    New YMCA


    Carlton Lofts


    Campus Martius Park





  6. #6
    Member
    Registered
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    230
    Quote Originally posted by DetroitMan
    BTW, when was the last time you were in Detroit? How could you miss all of the major projects happening downtown like Campus Martius Park, the new Compuware HQ, the Lofts at Merchant's Row, new YMCA, Washington Blvd, Woodward Avenue and Broadway Streetscape projects, the Iodent Building and Kales Building renovations and dozens of smaller renovations happening all over downtown.
    I was in Detroit a few years ago, for the 100th Anniversry of US automobile manufacture exhibition at the Henry Ford Museum (and the Motown Musuem had a pretty neat exhibit there, too).

    After the musuem I drove around the River Rouge plant, then through Dearborn into Detroits west side, I guess, then back down to the Fairlane mansion. I was suprised to see the big arab presence in that part of town.

    After that loop we drove into Detroit (dont recall what street) and ended up on Grand Boulevard, which we followed to that "Midtown" area, then up Woodward, and over into Hamtramck..drove up and down Joseph Campeau Ave (I think), and then back to Woodward to see the old Ford plant in Highland Park, then back down Woodward into downtown Detroit, then under the river via tunnel to Windsor, just see what that looked like (boring and bland).

    Its not like Detroit doesn't have alot of potential....I can see how this could be a fantastic urban environment if people just moved back in and repopulated the place. If they are, thats good news.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    230
    I always thought it might be an interesting planning challenge to do something with the urban prairies of Detroit, like the one in this 2003 aerial pix Before and After Images of St Cyril Parish area

    The remaining houses on the vacant blocks could be removed and the residents resettled into infill housing in the remaining built-up parts of the city.

    Then the abanodend streets could be torn up, and the vacant neighborhoods returned to nature as a nature preserve or into allotment gardens,like they have in Europe. Detroit would become a collection of "villiages' or neighborhoods, seperated by areas of prarire and forest and small gardens.

    Or if the real-estate market changes, the abandoned zones could re-platted and rebuilt as a postwar subdivision, w. split level houses and all, or industrial or office parks.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Northwestern Ohio
    Posts
    9,327

    Re-Opening An Old Thread About Detroit

    Detroit has had some "press" lately, for reasons not related to crime, abandoned houses, poor automobile sales, lousy (before last year) baseball. Couple things being talked about.....

    The All-Star Game
    Baseball's annual all-star game will be held in Comerica Park. Sports writers visiting will get a chance to see the city for the first time in a number of years. My guess is that TV's so-called analysts will show images of down-trodden Detroit and new and spruced-up places and comment on and on about the community, its' troubles, its' re-emergence, and maybe talk a little baseball.

    The Super Bowl
    Hopefully, my favorite team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, will be in Detroit as the AFC representative in the next Super Bowl (only nine months away!). They are expecting thousands of writers, analysts, hangers-ons, party-goers, etc. Detroit does not have enough hotel rooms in the metro so the Super Bowl Committee has sent reps down to Toledo (55 miles south) to reserve rooms and get info on the local attractions in T-Town.

    Detroit's two (2) new stadiums are impressive, close to each other, re-energizing the neighborhood they are in. Lots of eateries, taverns, a casino.....all in that area.
    (Some of the area was already popular with visitors.....Greektown.)

    Today, the folks in Detroit who "sell" their community to convention-goers, etc., released an interesting pop-type song that sings the praises of "The D". I heard it on the radio and thought......not too bad. The well-known radio guy that played it said he was glad there was no hip-hop on it. My believe.....you gotta sell the city and THE WAY IT IS......so rap styling should have been included.

    That same radio guy also interviewed a chamber of commerce guy and they talked about lining up some "pub crawls" to explore all the new bars. Now, I could go for that.

    Bear Hanging Around Plum Street Wondering Where Everybody Went
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  9. #9
    Cyburbian urbanchik's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    120
    I agree that the Motor City has seen the worst and is now rebounding. I think it will be one of the greatest cities in the world again one day. It has so much potential and its residents are strong, proud, and determined. But it is going to take some time. In the 1950's, the City's population was over 2 million and Detroit was the place to be. But the population dropped below 1 million in the 2000 census, and most predict that the 2010 census will show a population below 900,000. Businesses fled at an equally alarming rate. Detroit hit rock bottom - can you imagine having to provide the same services but with less than half the tax base?

    Redevelopment is hot and has been for years, but can't keep up with the pace of out migration of famlies looking for better housing and schools for their children. Taxes here are a killer! Even if you buy in a Renaissance Zone or Enterprise Zone, your taxes are still just similiar to the higher taxed burbs. The schools are in trouble and unless improvement is prompt and visible, Detroit will not be able to attract families back to repopulate its decayed neighborhoods.

    One of the encouraging signs though is the development of Campus Martius park downtown and a park system along the Detroit River from downtown and up to Belle Isle. I think the new park system is like 3 miles long - it opens this summer! Detroit planners in the past never had the foresight to preserve significant parkland for its residents, which I think is the reason Detroit fell so much harder than other rust belt cities. There are scattered parks thoughout the city, but nothing is connects, the parks aren't funded well, and they are not attractions. The new park along the river I think will become a destination for city residents and suburbanites and will greatly improve the City's image. Can't wait to rollerblade there this summer!
    urbanchik

  10. #10
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clayobyrne, CB
    Posts
    2,580
    I do not see much hope for Detroit. There is too much anti-urbanism and racism in the metro area. The city has reached rock-bottom, leaving only those who are trapped or simply dauntless.

    The city government should be disolved. Ten to twenty new municipalities should take over the former territory and government functions. This would stimulate competition between governments, allow for the suburbanization (the favored land use pattern in MI) of fallow urban land, and break up the failing school system into more manageable pieces. Of course the municipalities would require additional state aid for the first decade or so to get off their feet. A tax sharing structure among all metropolitan municipalities would also go along way (but this is likely a non-starter).

  11. #11
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clayobyrne, CB
    Posts
    2,580
    Quote Originally posted by urbanchik
    Detroit planners in the past never had the foresight to preserve significant parkland for its residents, which I think is the reason Detroit fell so much harder than other rust belt cities.
    The lack of a rapid transit system, an overdeveloped highway system, intense racism and white flight, the dearth of universities and colleges, and the overdependence on one industrial sector also had a lot to do with it.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    63

    Detroit

    I'd love to see a Detroit revitalization -- a city with so much potential, in my opinion. The infrastructure is there, if decaying (roads with terrible potholes, abandoned buildings that seem to ooze potential), but there seemed to be signs of life when I was last there a few years ago.

    As far as white people not feeling at home in the city because it's 80% black... I find that very odd. I'm white, and the reaction I found, and I've heard from other people, is that Detroiters were especially welcoming if you're there, since you obviously don't buy into the stereotype and fear so many people have. Some of the friendliest people I've met were in Detroit, and they were primarily black, so I find it hard to believe whites feel "unwelcome" in any way there.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian urbanchik's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    120
    Quote Originally posted by jmello
    The lack of a rapid transit system, an overdeveloped highway system, intense racism and white flight, the dearth of universities and colleges, and the overdependence on one industrial sector also had a lot to do with it.
    I absolutely agree with that, but no significant attempts or progress to address these problems has been made. I guess the redevelopment aims to attract suburbanites, black and white, back to the City, but more needs to happen. I am excited to see the focus on parks - we need a gem like Chicago's Grant Park or New York's Central Park. Even Windsor has a beautiful waterfront. We need this - a large park to chill out and congregate all year and connected to downtown.

    Quote Originally posted by Blue
    I'd love to see a Detroit revitalization -- a city with so much potential, in my opinion. The infrastructure is there, if decaying (roads with terrible potholes, abandoned buildings that seem to ooze potential), but there seemed to be signs of life when I was last there a few years ago. As far as white people not feeling at home in the city because it's 80% black... I find that very odd. I'm white, and the reaction I found, and I've heard from other people, is that Detroiters were especially welcoming if you're there, since you obviously don't buy into the stereotype and fear so many people have. Some of the friendliest people I've met were in Detroit, and they were primarily black, so I find it hard to believe whites feel "unwelcome" in any way there.
    Infrastructure although existing often still needs to be replaced because some of it is over 100 years old. Some of the infrastructure is wooden! So that makes redevelopment more expensive than one would think. Also, many redevelopment projects encounter buried debris and other surprises during construction.
    I agree that Detroit is a friendly and warm city overall! But the political environment is a whole different story!
    urbanchik

  14. #14
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Detroit lacks Universities?

    35,000 students at Wayne State with one of the finest Medical Schools, and Law Schools in the country?

    10,000 students at Unviversity Detroit Mercy, a Jesuit Centered school with Architecture and Law Schools? And Marygrove College, run by the nuns?

    College of Creative Studies, with the finest auto design school anywhere, and accross from the Detroit Institute of Arts?

    UAW Traning Centers for GM, Chrysler and Ford employees?

    Five Campuses of Wayne County Community College, numerous technical schools, plus the Schools in the Suburbs like U of Michigan Ann Arbor and Dearborn, Oakland U, Lawerence Tech U, satalites everywhere.

    Yes it is true that the Detroit area has traditionally lagged in univesity degrees, but remember, you don't need a degree to get a $30 an hour union job. This attracted lots of people in the past. The lack of jobs now is pulling people in their 20's from the area that were educated here, which is another reason why it lags, those that get educated here leave now. But to say we lack good colleges and universities is surprising in the least.

    Racism in Detroit is not as big of a problem as classism. Educated and rich minorities are accepted in nearly every suburb. The preception of race however is still a major problem. I still have people who do not believe I live in Detroit because I am a professional white guy, even though much of my family still lives in the city and I know lots of other professionals of all ethnicities that live here. I would dare say it is easier for the average white person to accept a black person as living in the suburbs as opposed to my situation. The majority of the whites that live here really have never met any white people that live in the city and are told to avoid it as it is unsafe so they have no concept of what it is really about. Well I'm running on here so it is time to quit.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian urbanchik's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    120
    I think he meant traditional college campuses, or at least that is how I interpreted it. Many of these fine universities are commuter campuses. Although CCS and UD seems to have a traditional college feel and many people from CCS especially stay in metro Detroit when they graduate to work at the Big Three.

    A lot of my friends aren't from Detroit or even Michigan (neither am I). But they were attracted to the area for its creative (and high paying) jobs and relatively low cost of living. But now, many of them are leaving for California or other sun belt states. One of my friends has been debating about whether or not to leave, but after this freak snowevent this weekend, I think he mind is made up! Kinda scary - like the deindustrialization in the 70's all over again.
    urbanchik

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Northwestern Ohio
    Posts
    9,327

    Re-Opening An Olde Thread

    This thread needs to jump back into our views. Why? Because over the next two (2) weeks you are going to see hundreds of images of Detroit, you are going to hear thousands of words about the Motor City, you are going to be subjected to numerous comments, truths, falsehoods, anbd general biases about the giant city that brought the world efficient manufacturing of motor cars.

    The Super Bowl is in two (2) weeks.
    _____

    Even though my team might be in the big dance, I am excited about watching how the city will be portrayed by all of the coverage. Even I could write the script, starting with this view.....

    Camera pans on downtown Detroit. But it is not the Detroit of the circular Renaissance Center.....it will focus on olde black and white camera images of a busy downtown. Shots of Tiger Stadium, Olympia Stadium (old Red Wing home), Hudson's giant department store, thousands of people (all the men with hats) walking the sidewalks. The images will change to sparks flying from welding units, autoworkers attaching bolts as cars roll by on the assembly line, colorful ads from the 1950's showing the giant finned autos, all driven by handsome white men with pretty blonde women with them.

    The images will change to the steps in front of MoTown Records.....shots of The Supremes, Smokey, etc. That image will disolve into photos from the air of burning buildings, photots from the streets of rioting Detroiters.

    The final "bad" images, probably with an Eminem soundtrack behind them, will be the empty lots, the burned-out buildings, the abandoned factories. Sights will then come into view of all of the new restaurants, the casinos, the new stadiums, the recent All-Star Game (baseball).....insert White Stripes tune here.

    You Cyburbians know what will be said. You are custodians of urbanity and urban issues. You know the score in the game of big urban cities. The real game is played every day.....and we will get a chance to see it when the Super Bowl treats us to a thousand images of what can go wrong and what might be done to make it go right.....again.

    BTW.....Go Steelers.

    Bear, Who Spent A Lot Of Time In Detroit City
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  17. #17
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Huh? Superbowl? In Detroit? How did I miss this news item?

  18. #18
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dubai, United Arab Emirates
    Posts
    422
    The love feast on this board was getting too saccharine for my taste, and I can't help but post.

    It is hard, especially if you have spent your entire life in that city, and have many fond memories from the past, to accept the death of the city. I am sorry, but Detroit is not going to come back, it will not be a major automobile powerhouse again, and all trends are pointing in this direction (Ford recently announced plans to lay off 30,000 workers, and the company currently has 185 billion worth of debt, and General Motors has 235 billion in debt).

    Detroit, the city that is, is home to one of the largest concentrations of poor urban blacks in America. Its middle class is almost non-existent. Detroit has the ills that face other declining American cities, but has those ills to the extremes. It is one of the most racially divided metropolitan regions in the country, and the economic gulf between the city and the suburbs are enormous, more so than any other major city.

    Detroit has shown some signs of life in a few select areas, but face it, the rest of the city is sinking faster than a sinkhole. Detroit has square miles after square miles of empty, vacant, formerly urban lands. Its infrastructure has deteriorated to the point of being almost non-existent. It has a population that succumbs to pandering race mongering politicians. The school system is one of the worst, crime is one of the worst. This is a city where great 1920s mansions, worth millions elsewhere, can be had for a few hundred thou (looking for a dispiriting pastime?Check out realtor.com and search for Detroit properties, and see these great old houses going for mere pennies, yet drive across the city line to Grosse Pointe and prices quadruple, for very good reasons).

    Furthermore, Detroit has little to help it on the way to future prosperity. Michigan's economy is in the toilet and the city has the highest unemployment rates of any major city, and the stagnating American car industry shows now sign of rebounding any time soon. Detroit, unlike several other distressed cities, has no major university of repute to encourage the flourishing of a high tech, educated, sector. Philadelphia has the University of Pennsylvania, a research powerhouse that has long been involved in city affairs. Baltimore has Johns Hopkins, and the professional schools of the University of Maryland are located in Baltimore as well. Both of these cities are home to a substantial affluent professional class. Detroit has, well, no offense, Wayne State, which is a regional diploma granting factory.

    Detroit needs a lot of work, but it is best to be realistic about the city and what future it has in store as you start addressing the problems. Delusions of grandeur isn't going to help.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Quote Originally posted by PennPlanner
    It is hard, especially if you have spent your entire life in that city, and have many fond memories from the past, to accept the death of the city..
    Thanks for your comment Mr Philthydelpia, may your City continue to become one giant cesspool too. I've spent time in both towns, you have racial problems in your city too, you have areas where housing prices are depressed, Philly schools are not exactly a model for how to run your public school system either, you have Chester for Petes sakes! nothing in Detroit is as bad as Chester! Don't even get me started on your other neighbor, Camden, NJ.

    As far as Wayne State is concerned, you are very wrong and are confused about the mission of the University and how it is integrated into the City's Hospitals, Law Clinics, Rec Centers, special olympics, and its requirements that all students are required to be proficient in foreign languages. University of Michigan started in Detroit, and is located only 40 minutes from Downtown (sorry I'll use a colloquial you may be familiar with 'City Center').

    You see poor and black as a problem; so you're right, you would not like Detroit. But ya know what? Most poor blacks are great people. People deserve your respect no matter what their color or economic class is, not only as a planner, but as an american, and as a human. You see Detroit as a dog thats easy to kick. Yes its true. I see Detroit as my family and friends. We are haviing harder times than most of the United States, but we're turning things around. I'm sorry you don't, can't or are willing to see this.

    Planners that live in glass houses (Mies Van der Rhoe blessed Detroit with 100's of them) should not throw stones. I suggest that you check your angst and piousness at the door if you want to discuss Detroit, we're not about that here. I'm sure glad that the Steelers fans are coming here next week for the Super Bowl, we have a great party planned for them and they will have a great time. Its too bad the Eagles can't make it.
    Last edited by DetroitPlanner; 25 Jan 2006 at 5:00 PM.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dubai, United Arab Emirates
    Posts
    422
    I don't live in Philadelphia these days, the Penn part simply refers to where I received my MCP.

    I have clearly touched a nerve, and I'm sorry, despite any problems Philadelphia or other large cities may have, it is nothing, I repeat, nothing on the scale of what Detroit faces. Anyone who has spent time in center city Philadelphia versus downtown Detroit knows there is a world of difference between the two cities.

    Here are simple economics: Philadelphia currently has 775 housing units for sale that are priced at $500,000 or above, out of a market pool of 9K houses for sale (according to Realtor.com). The same source reports that Detroit has 19 housing units currently on the market priced at $500K or more, out of a pool of 6,400 residences for sale.




    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner
    Thanks for your comment Mr Philthydelpia, may your City continue to become one giant cesspool too. I've spent time in both towns, you have racial problems in your city too, you have areas where housing prices are depressed, Philly schools are not exactly a model for how to run your public school system either, you have Chester for Petes sakes! nothing in Detroit is as bad as Chester! Don't even get me started on your other neighbor, Camden, NJ.

    As far as Wayne State is concerned, you are very wrong and are confused about the mission of the University and how it is integrated into the City's Hospitals, Law Clinics, Rec Centers, special olympics, and its requirements that all students are required to be proficient in foreign languages. University of Michigan started in Detroit, and is located only 40 minutes from Downtown (sorry I'll use a colloquial you may be familiar with 'City Center').

    Planners that live in glass houses (Mies Van der Rhoe blessed Detroit with 100's of them) should not throw stones. I suggest that you check your angst and piousness at the door if you want to discuss Detroit, we're not about that here. I'm sure glad that the Steelers fans are coming here next week for the Super Bowl, we have a great party planned for them and they will have a great time. Its too bad the Eagles can't make it.
    Last edited by PennPlanner; 25 Jan 2006 at 6:33 PM.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Carlsbad, CA
    Posts
    81
    Aint that something. The Steelers made it to the big game.

    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    This thread needs to jump back into our views. Why? Because over the next two (2) weeks you are going to see hundreds of images of Detroit, you are going to hear thousands of words about the Motor City, you are going to be subjected to numerous comments, truths, falsehoods, anbd general biases about the giant city that brought the world efficient manufacturing of motor cars.

    The Super Bowl is in two (2) weeks.
    _____

    Even though my team might be in the big dance, I am excited about watching how the city will be portrayed by all of the coverage. Even I could write the script, starting with this view.....

    Camera pans on downtown Detroit. But it is not the Detroit of the circular Renaissance Center.....it will focus on olde black and white camera images of a busy downtown. Shots of Tiger Stadium, Olympia Stadium (old Red Wing home), Hudson's giant department store, thousands of people (all the men with hats) walking the sidewalks. The images will change to sparks flying from welding units, autoworkers attaching bolts as cars roll by on the assembly line, colorful ads from the 1950's showing the giant finned autos, all driven by handsome white men with pretty blonde women with them.

    The images will change to the steps in front of MoTown Records.....shots of The Supremes, Smokey, etc. That image will disolve into photos from the air of burning buildings, photots from the streets of rioting Detroiters.

    The final "bad" images, probably with an Eminem soundtrack behind them, will be the empty lots, the burned-out buildings, the abandoned factories. Sights will then come into view of all of the new restaurants, the casinos, the new stadiums, the recent All-Star Game (baseball).....insert White Stripes tune here.

    You Cyburbians know what will be said. You are custodians of urbanity and urban issues. You know the score in the game of big urban cities. The real game is played every day.....and we will get a chance to see it when the Super Bowl treats us to a thousand images of what can go wrong and what might be done to make it go right.....again.

    BTW.....Go Steelers.

    Bear, Who Spent A Lot Of Time In Detroit City

  22. #22
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Quote Originally posted by PennPlanner
    Here are simple economics: Philadelphia currently has 775 housing units for sale that are priced at $500,000 or above, out of a market pool of 9K houses for sale (according to Realtor.com). The same source reports that Detroit has 19 housing units currently on the market priced at $500K or more, out of a pool of 6,400 residences for sale.
    Realtor.com is hardly a good source. This only has a subset of MLS properties, and no FSBO ones. $500,000 is a pretty penny for a home in the mid-west, period. You would have a hard time finding a lot of homes costing more than that even in Detroit's wealthiest suburbs. Does Philly have an income tax while your suburban areas do not? This has moved a lot of the greedy rich folks out of the city.

    People in the Midwest in general make a lot less than those in the East.

    When comparing homes in Detroit and Grosse Pointe of the same level of maintenance, the Pointes have higher value, this is true, but quadruple? I doubt it.

    Differences between the cities? Certainly. Your post indicates those differences are because we have race problems and too many poor people. Is Philly somehow immune to this? What would Philly look like if its manufacturing base eroded away over 50 years, while its corporate offices grew to the point of looking for land in the suburbs to house everyone? Your assumption that black and poor is bad is not really a problem. The problem here is an acelleration of manufactuing jobs moving overseas, having a city that was built to be a giant factory, that has had 70 percent of its jobs moved elsewhere. And you wonder why homes are so inexpensive here? As I have stated in other threads the $30 an hour union jobs that built this town are gone, this city needs to re-invent itself, but we cannot do so in a way that gets GM, Ford, or Chrysler mad as they are still very much the economic engines for the region.

    BTW, Wayne States University is run by a guy who has a docorate from Penn's Wharton School, no wonder it is as crappy as you say. http://www.president.wayne.edu/presbio.php
    Last edited by DetroitPlanner; 26 Jan 2006 at 10:25 AM.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian the north omaha star's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2003
    Location
    at Babies R Us or Home Depot
    Posts
    1,260
    For the record, I like Detroit. I see so much promise. I've been there 3 times mainly for Lions' games. In my honest opinion, Detroit doesn't look any worse than parts of Baltimore (where I live), parts of DC, parts of North and West Philly or Brooklyn. As a matter of fact it looks better, because it doesn't have any rowhouses so the neglect and disrepair is not concentrated in such as small area repeated over and over again. I wish people here on this website and across the country would stop giving Detroit such a bad rap. I'm not saying the city's perfect, because every large city has it's skeletons. Just don't throw stones in a glass house.
    I am recognizing that the voice inside my head
    is urging me to be myself but never follow someone else
    Because opinions are like voices we all have a different kind". --Q-Tip

  24. #24
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dubai, United Arab Emirates
    Posts
    422
    I went back to Realtor.com, which still remains the best source of real estate for sale.

    According to Realtor.com, there are currently 238 properties for sale in the Grosse Pointes, out of which 83 are offered over 500K, and 46 of those are over 750K.

    I checked out Birmingham/Bloomfield/Rochester, and out of a combined market pool of 1,515 properties, a full 506, or 1/3 of existing housing units for sale, are priced over 500K, and 295 are over $750K.

    Seems to me that there are plenty of expensive housing for sale in Detroit's suburbs, midwestern or not.

    I don't know everything about Philadelphia, having lived there for only two years, but there is a much hated wage tax. However, it hasn't prevented a significant condo boom in downtown Philadelphia and escalating property prices in the nicer neighborhoods. Even West Philadelphia, home to the Penn campus, has seen prices for the rowhouses triple over the last few years.

    The wage tax has also corroded much of Philadelphia's business base, but Comcast is currently constructing a 975 ft high skyscraper that will be the tallest in the city, even taller than the current record holder of 1 Liberty Center.

    As for education, Philadelphia does have, on the whole, a fairly poor and low scoring school district. Yet it is also home to Masterman High School, a public college prep magnet school that has the highest average SAT scores of all high schools in the region, besting even the rich suburban public schools.

    I was particularly annoyed at the reference to Wayne State's law and med schools being among the finest in the country. According to USNews' annual ranking of law schools, Wayne State's law school isn't in the top 100. The medical school also can't be found in the top 50 medical schools. And you are the one lamblasting me for throwing stones in glass houses.

    Having said these, Philadelphia is not and has never been my home. It was where I went to school for two years and I have and do often criticize the city (you are correct in that it is Philthydelphia).


    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner
    Realtor.com is hardly a good source. This only has a subset of MLS properties, and no FSBO ones. $500,000 is a pretty penny for a home in the mid-west, period. You would have a hard time finding a lot of homes costing more than that even in Detroit's wealthiest suburbs. Does Philly have an income tax while your suburban areas do not? This has moved a lot of the greedy rich folks out of the city.

    People in the Midwest in general make a lot less than those in the East.

    When comparing homes in Detroit and Grosse Pointe of the same level of maintenance, the Pointes have higher value, this is true, but quadruple? I doubt it.

    Differences between the cities? Certainly. Your post indicates those differences are because we have race problems and too many poor people. Is Philly somehow immune to this? What would Philly look like if its manufacturing base eroded away over 50 years, while its corporate offices grew to the point of looking for land in the suburbs to house everyone? Your assumption that black and poor is bad is not really a problem. The problem here is an acelleration of manufactuing jobs moving overseas, having a city that was built to be a giant factory, that has had 70 percent of its jobs moved elsewhere. And you wonder why homes are so inexpensive here? As I have stated in other threads the $30 an hour union jobs that built this town are gone, this city needs to re-invent itself, but we cannot do so in a way that gets GM, Ford, or Chrysler mad as they are still very much the economic engines for the region.

    BTW, Wayne States University is run by a guy who has a docorate from Penn's Wharton School, no wonder it is as crappy as you say. http://www.president.wayne.edu/presbio.php

  25. #25
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Quote Originally posted by PennPlanner
    I went back to Realtor.com, which still remains the best source of real estate for sale.

    According to Realtor.com, there are currently 238 properties for sale in the Grosse Pointes, out of which 83 are offered over 500K, and 46 of those are over 750K.

    I checked out Birmingham/Bloomfield/Rochester, and out of a combined market pool of 1,515 properties, a full 506, or 1/3 of existing housing units for sale, are priced over 500K, and 295 are over $750K.

    Seems to me that there are plenty of expensive housing for sale in Detroit's suburbs, midwestern or not.

    I was particularly annoyed at the reference to Wayne State's law and med schools being among the finest in the country. According to USNews' annual ranking of law schools, Wayne State's law school isn't in the top 100. The medical school also can't be found in the top 50 medical schools. And you are the one lamblasting me for throwing stones in glass houses.
    Again, why are these expensive homes for sale? People cannot afford to keep them, that is why they are being sold. These turkeys are sitting on the market for years in Metro Detroit as not many can afford that kind of lifestyle any longer.

    I personally know lots of people in the area are trying to 'trade down' to smaller homes as wages have stagnated over the last several years while insurance and utility costs have soared. The major problem is they just can't sell their house because the market is so bad. Again, your comparison of the market is based on finding fault with Detroit, not on actual market conditions.

    Wayne State's Law Students pass the bar at a higher percentage on average than any other of Michigan's law school. Wayne State's Medical school is huge, as its its school of allied health (pharmacy, nursing, physical therapy). Wayne State runs the Detroit Medical Center. Which includes some pretty impressive speciality hospitals (Childrens, Recieving (trauma), Harper (Cancer/Cardio), Hutzel (OB/Gyn), and there is also the Karmonos Cancer Center, Kresgee Eye Center, and the Rehabilitation Insititute that is part of the mix. Inernists as well as others from these two schools work to serve two hard to serve populations, namely the poor and the cases that the other hospitals refer out.

    "WSU has led the nation in graduating African-American graduate students exclusive of the historically minority schools. WSU School of Medicine is the country’s largest single-campus medical school." see below

    Maybe I am looking at this from the glass is half full while you look at it as glass is half-empty. WSU has provided generations of working poor the ability to climb out of poverty (me included). My parents never had a degree or placed an importance on it, and I don't know if I would have been able to do what I am now without having a place like Wayne State close by. My parents instead taught me to defend those that need defending and to accept others. I checked world news listings, I had a hard time deciephering it, it seems th place a lot of emphasis on campus life and social aspects of schools. Not being on US new's rankings could be simply like dating the plain smart girl instead of the popular cheerleader type.

    http://www.dmc.org/
    http://www.gradprofiles.com/wayne-st-biomed-sci.html

    "The rich and the upper middle classes will always have the resources to live where they want to live, and it almost always is with one another in exclusive pockets. One should be very careful not to penalize the middle class and especially the lower middle classes by forcing them to live side by side with the poor." - PennPlanner 30-March-2005
    Last edited by DetroitPlanner; 26 Jan 2006 at 1:44 PM.

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 ... LastLast

More at Cyburbia

  1. Replies: 18
    Last post: 21 Jul 2015, 8:24 AM
  2. The end of the Renaissance man
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 12
    Last post: 07 Jan 2009, 1:55 PM
  3. Denver's downtown renaissance
    Design, Space, and Place
    Replies: 3
    Last post: 17 Nov 2005, 11:34 AM
  4. A Comics Renaissance?
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 23
    Last post: 11 Oct 2005, 1:37 PM
  5. Hello from the Motor City!
    Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 27
    Last post: 28 Mar 2005, 11:30 AM