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Thread: Leave it to APA to be pandering...

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Leave it to APA to be pandering...

    This article iritates me. The APA needs to get off its HIgh Horse and stop being the I-Told-You-So organization.


    grrrrrr!

  2. #2
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    The suggestion of building codes, to me, shows the APA is oblivious to the economic and social realities of these areas.

    The warning system was an investment risk that those countries decided not to venture into. They are very expensive and for poor countries were probably considered more of a luxery than a neccessity. I'm sure that it will be installed now.

    Even though urban design planning for a tsunami should be considered, the tourism in this area banks on being right on the water. I don't think things will change in this respect.

    On tourism: After the disaster on 9/11, the US tourism and airline industries suffered a huge hit. After the Florida hurricanes, there was another decline in tourism in Florida. I remember seeing $69 round trip tix from Chicago to Orlando for a couple weeks after the first couple hurricanes. I wonder whate kind of hit this event will cause to tourism and how long it will last. 9/11 lasted years, the hurricanes months, what about an extremely rare tsunami?
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    As much as I don't like much of the APA, I do agree with them on this issue, although they do need a considerable amount more of tact on presenting their statements on it. I also think that many of the safe guards in the USA look as possible environmental disasters such as flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and blizzards.

    I also think that in some cases natural disasters are based on personal perception of that area, and outside development concerns. I know that growing up in the UP I would see on the weather channel that entire cities would be closed after a few inches of snow, when the town I was living in got the same amount during lunch. The final result is based on how prepared you are for such a disaster. I think that in this case, they should have been prepared better. I still do feel bad for the incredible loss of life, and realizing that the region will feel the effects for several years to come.
    The difference between how you expect your life to be and how it really is determines your happiness. - Mo Gawdat

  4. #4
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Well, maybe it's poor taste but they are practicing due diligence in promoting the profession. At least you guys are finally getting something for your dues. It would have made much more sense for them to have used the Florida hurricanes though.

    Remember that it took the '93 floods for the Federal Government to finally take flood plane planning seriously.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    We're also dealing with economics here. I highly doubt that building codes will come into play for residential construction in these poor countries. The tourism industry thrives on beachfront high-rises and huts and will reject any policy to promote "tsunami smart" developement. Tsunamis happen very infrequently in the Indian ocean and ones on this magnitude happen even less frequently. The only change that will happen because of this will be an Indian Ocean tsunami alert system. How long before the Atlantic basin sets one up too...just in case?

    oops, didn't realize my other post made it through! my IE chocked as I tried to post it. Apologies for the duplicity.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  6. #6
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Wow, I'm surprised APA even noticed the tsunami; they've been so focused on Red China!

    OK APA, crawl out of your ivory tower now and take a good look at economic & social conditions in the affected countries. Locals build little huts close to the water because they rely on the water for income (fishing or tourism). They are poor and cannot afford the expense of building "tsunami-safe" structures or adopt "SMARTtsunami" policies. I mean, when your whole island is less than 40 feet above sea-level, you're pretty well screwed, right? Also, you're asking people to move away from the sole source of economic growth for a community.

    and if I see one more scientist or organization say "I told you so" about an early warning system one more time... so help me...

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  7. #7
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman
    ...and if I see one more scientist or organization say "I told you so" about an early warning system one more time... so help me...
    Forget the early warning system... How hard is it to pass along the significant fact that when the ocean draws back forty feet, it's not time go pick up marooned fish, it's time to run like hell to some high ground!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  8. #8
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Ha ha ha ha....

    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman
    Wow, I'm surprised APA even noticed the tsunami; they've been so focused on Red China!

    OK APA, crawl out of your ivory tower now and take a good look at economic & social conditions in the affected countries. Locals build little huts close to the water because they rely on the water for income (fishing or tourism). They are poor and cannot afford the expense of building "tsunami-safe" structures or adopt "SMARTtsunami" policies. I mean, when your whole island is less than 40 feet above sea-level, you're pretty well screwed, right? Also, you're asking people to move away from the sole source of economic growth for a community.

    and if I see one more scientist or organization say "I told you so" about an early warning system one more time... so help me...
    GREAT OBSERVATION suburb repairman I've been all over them about that China stuff They claim they make money from the deal.....hell, they should be making great money from China, everyone else does But, what in the wide world of sports can we possibly be getting out of the deal.....oh yeah, a few well funded "research" trips to Beijing and Shanghai and Hong Kong for those at the top....I thought this was the job of USAID, not the APA.......
    “The way of acquiescence leads to moral and spiritual suicide. The way of violence leads to bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. But, the way of non-violence leads to redemption and the creation of the beloved community.”
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    - See more at: http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-ph....r7W02j3S.dpuf

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally posted by The One
    GREAT OBSERVATION suburb repairman I've been all over them about that China stuff They claim they make money from the deal.....hell, they should be making great money from China, everyone else does But, what in the wide world of sports can we possibly be getting out of the deal.....oh yeah, a few well funded "research" trips to Beijing and Shanghai and Hong Kong for those at the top....I thought this was the job of USAID, not the APA.......
    Boy, including the quoted text, that's ELEVEN smilies

  10. #10
    Cyburbian donk's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The One
    hell, they should be making great money from China, everyone else does
    Maybe the executive and office staff have delt with Wal~mart so many times they are taking a hint from one of our biggest "clients".
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

  11. #11
          Downtown's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    Forget the early warning system... How hard is it to pass along the significant fact that when the ocean draws back forty feet, it's not time go pick up marooned fish, it's time to run like hell to some high ground!
    The one video that upsets me everytime is the dad who is videotaping the waves come in, as his children are playing in front of him, they're swept out by the water, and he's still taping. WTF?!

  12. #12
    Cyburbian boilerplater's avatar
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    You all may remember Patrick Geddes from your planning history classes. He was a Scottish planner/architect who is considered one of the progenitors of modern planning. When I visited Edinborough, where he worked and taught for many years, I found an exhibit about him in the Panopticon tower. One thing that stood out for me was that he considered his work in India to be the most rewarding because of the great benefits that were brought about by planning in places that didn't have adequate sanitation or decent transport networks. So maybe it is usful for the APA to point out the importance of planning in mitigating and preventing disasters. Yes, many of these countries don't have the funds for even basic services, but maybe now the international community will direct some of that aid money towards better-planned rebuilding efforts that will actually improve the lives of these people and better prepare them for future natural disasters.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    .....

    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    Boy, including the quoted text, that's ELEVEN smilies
    8-|

    Moderator note:
    AHEM.... NO posting padding please.
    “The way of acquiescence leads to moral and spiritual suicide. The way of violence leads to bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. But, the way of non-violence leads to redemption and the creation of the beloved community.”
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    - See more at: http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-ph....r7W02j3S.dpuf

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Related is this article:

    Vital technology as a human right
    By Arthur Lerner-Lam, Leonardo Seeber, and Robert Chen
    from the CS Monitor website:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0103/p09s01-comv.htm

    "Globally, the costs of taking preemptive action are less than is spent on recovery, and the value of saving lives is immeasurable in terms of dollars. Preemptive investments can build strong and long-lasting infrastructure. That means water and sanitation systems, transport and telecommunications networks, and healthcare systems. These all are important when it comes to disaster response, but they contribute to basic development and living standards as well. Only a fraction of disaster recovery funds gets spent on future mitigation.

    The lessons are clear, making the next steps obvious:
    • Map known exposures of populations and economic activities to multiple disasters.
    • Encourage pilot programs in the most risk-prone areas.
    • Build indigenous scientific and technical capacity to take advantage of existing technology and allow for local innovation.
    • Link developed-world foreign aid to risk-conscious sustainable development.
    • Encourage ongoing assessment of disaster risk-management methods.
    • Pay for it with development finance mechanisms that provide incentives for preemptive investment in vulnerability reduction.
    "

    This opinion article has been reprinted times and sounds a bit similar to the APA in spots.
    Last edited by JNA; 04 Jan 2005 at 10:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The One
    8-|

    Moderator note:
    AHEM.... NO posting padding please.
    ^-- Getting on that around here is a bit like handing out speeding tickets at the Indiana 500.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian
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    Wow.. APA must be very dumb... they basically say they shouldn't build near places where a tsunami might hit or where the sea may rise and cause lots of damage; so bye bye Bangladesh and Holland!

    Some of the islands down there, like the Nicobar are flat, so they are great for tourism, except in the rare cases of a tsunami. Thailand also has lots of islands that were washed side to side by the tsunami, and there you can't do much; but you can't avoid that people will want to live there and that it's a touristic hot spot.

    Also, here in 1960, there were also idiots that went to catch fish and seafood that the sea left when it retracted; only to die a stupid death for being greedy. At least most of the people were smart enough, and lucky enough to live in a coast that's characterized by it's cliffs, and run to the hills and saved themselves. The others, won a darwin award.

  17. #17
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by SkeLeton
    Wow.. APA must be very dumb... they basically say they shouldn't build near places where a tsunami might hit or where the sea may rise and cause lots of damage; so bye bye Bangladesh and Holland!
    Is there ANYPLACE on the planet that is both completely free of natural threats -- flooding, earthquakes, landslides, fires, tsunamis, volcanos, and so on -- which is geologically stable, suitable for intensive human settlement, and with sufficient rainfall to support agriculture without importing water over long distances or draining aquefers, where man's presence won't be a threat to the ecosystem at large? Really, I doubt it.

    Just about everyplace poses a potential threat to man, I think; geological hazards, weather, drought or total lack of water. Still, though, we didn't make it tot he top of the food chain without being adaptable to our environment. There is the risk of disaster, whether manmade or natural, but we also take risks whenever we get in our cars, or board a plane. We can't be protected from every threat or danger out there, and if we were, I fear the humnan spirit and the development of our species will stagnate.

    But I digress. People have to live SOMEWERE.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  18. #18
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan
    Is there ANYPLACE on the planet that is both completely free of natural threats --
    a) Flood plains are popular places to settle due to fertile soil, access to water (for both drinking and as transportation), etc.
    b) My kids used to have this "game" they played where the youngest would try to come up with an impentratable defense system that was perfect and could not be cracked. His older brother took great glee in saying "So you suffocate to death" and similar. If you are alive, you gotta eat, breathe, etc and those things are what kill a lot of people. Duh!

  19. #19
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Har har har....

    Quote Originally posted by jordanb
    ^-- Getting on that around here is a bit like handing out speeding tickets at the Indiana 500.
    I agree, I think the "mods" or "the man" is worried that we may catch up to them and their absurdly high number of posts through the same nefarious means as they once did as children of Cyburbia............ha ha ha ha ha.........man I love being melodramatic

    PS: Mods, just kidding.....please don't ban me....
    “The way of acquiescence leads to moral and spiritual suicide. The way of violence leads to bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. But, the way of non-violence leads to redemption and the creation of the beloved community.”
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    - See more at: http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-ph....r7W02j3S.dpuf

  20. #20
    Cyburbian nerudite's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    Forget the early warning system... How hard is it to pass along the significant fact that when the ocean draws back forty feet, it's not time go pick up marooned fish, it's time to run like hell to some high ground!
    Yeah, and if the whole world adopted Oregon's tsunami signage we'd all be okay!


  21. #21
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by nerudite
    Yeah, and if the whole world adopted Oregon's tsunami signage we'd all be okay!

    http://nees.orst.edu/wkshop_apr2001/tsunami.sign.jpg
    We have those signs here in Chile too (specifically in northern cities, where it is feared that the next "Big One" will be around here)


    PS: Dan, that was precisely my point... people have to live somewhere, and of course, there's nowhere in this planet where there are no natural disasters. But there are places with less chances and less types. But Holland or bangladesh or Tuvalu shouldn't disappear only because they're too close to the sea level so it makes them vulnerable to X event, but that also creates quality Y, which can be used whenever X isn't occuring, and that is generally in long periods of time.

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