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Thread: 20th vs 21st century planning

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    20th vs 21st century planning

    Last night I had my first Grad class and the prof said that planning is going though the biggest change since the 20’s.

    Do you think that the idea and scope of planning is changing, and if so, how?
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

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    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Shouldn't this thread be in the Student Lounge?

    Moderator note:
    I agree, done
    Last edited by giff57; 04 Jan 2005 at 11:00 AM.

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    Member japrovo's avatar
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    Can you gives us some clues as to your prof's arguements?

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    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    I would agree with that statement. I believe the biggest change has been the scope of planning. Take a look at old comprehensive plans compared to the new ones. Over time, people have begun to acknowledge interconnectedness of "human geography". This has lead to planners addressing not just land use and transportation, but also other topics like economic development and affordable housing. These new plans now discuss how each of these items affect each other, i.e. the land use-->transportation connection and the affect affordable housing has on economic development.

    Some of the ideas of planning have changed as well, but that has to do with people's willingness to accept government intervention and expecting the government to help them in their lives compared to the 1920s. (Think about the federal programs that have been added since that time--medicare, social security, housing/urban renewal, etc.)

    EDIT: Also, planners are attempting to undo past mistakes ("freeways are the answer" movement, Euclidean zoning run amuck, etc).

    That's the best I can do for now.
    Last edited by Suburb Repairman; 04 Jan 2005 at 10:59 AM.

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by japrovo
    Can you gives us some clues as to your prof's arguements?
    He had stated that we are now trying to correct the problems of decentralization and sprawl, when our past regulations have actually supported lowing density and the separation of uses. He kind of hinted that planning, especially in Michigan, could start to see a shift from just a local base to more state regulations and a conversion to a Form Base Code as opposed to Euclidean Zoning.

    Quote Originally posted by Wanigas?
    Shouldn't this thread be in the Student Lounge?
    I thought about that then realized that it is a real world planning issue that would be relevant to planners outside of the a student domain and dealt with the planning profession more than education.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

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    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    BKM may agree with me: Transportation planning and guiding development to accomodate many different transportation methods is probably the most important thing that needs to happen in the next couple years. Whether or not patio man or the cul-de-saq king likes it, energy costs are increasing and in a few years our fuel costs are going to be significantly different. Creating a fine-grain development pattern is probably the way to go (off the top of my head, without a lot of thought). And no, I don't believe transit is going to be the ultimate answer either. Meaningful walking and biking solutions are going to be important to accomodate.
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    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    I thought about that then realized that it is a real world planning issue that would be relevant to planners outside of the a student domain and dealt with the planning profession more than education.
    Don't students deal with real world planning issues? I seem to recall they do.

    Since we're barely five years into the 21st century, and considering the breadth of your inquiry, I would assert the question is more academic in nature.

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wanigas?
    Don't students deal with real world planning issues? I seem to recall they do.

    Since we're barely five years into the 21st century, and considering the breadth of your inquiry, I would assert the question is more academic in nature.
    Off-topic:
    Only the question was sparked by an educational setting, but I feel the question is based more on the non-educational idea. Many more professional planners deal with these issues then do the college students. It is not all that much different than asking there is a difference in the idea and direction planning is operating in the past decade or so as opposed to 100 years ago. Since part of the description of “Make No Small Plans” includes general discussion about the planning profession, I felt that it would be a much more suitable location for it. Especially considering it has nothing to do with education other than the thought was made during a class.

    Further more I find it funny that this thread, this thread, or this thread were not moved when this one dealing with the direction of planning in the 21st century was.


    Back on topic, has anyone change things in their ordinance or comp plans to address with any new industry changes. It seems like a lot of people had new plans that came out in the past 10 years, and are even more so working on possible revisions to deal with more modern ways of things.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

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    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    our new code, that may be adopted as a parallel code, treats all industrial, manufacturing, or other uses as "Districts". This means that there is no one size fits all zoning classification for the varied intensity and demands an industrial use causes. Light industrial, light manufacturing can be accomodated in some of the other classifications because they can often co-exist with minimal impact to adjacent uses with appropriate requirements.

    Each district is really a PUD with a couple of standard required items.
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    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    I would agree with Suburban Repairman that the scope of planning is expanding as we begin to understand the inter-related nature of social, economic, environmental, and other issues with land use and development. In addition to this, though, we are undergoing a shift in our focus from continual growth fueled by endless resources. In the 1990's we began to understand that the resources are not endless. More and more, we are dealing with containment, redevelopment, contraction, or even managed decline. I think the age of massive infrastructure development is coming to an end. There will still be major projects, but these will tend to focus on repairing problems created in the past. Still more of our effort will be focused on maintining the infrastructure of the past.
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    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Off-topic:

    Further more I find it funny that this thread, this thread, or this thread were not moved when this one dealing with the direction of planning in the 21st century was.

    It's a judgement call
    “As soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fall”
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    Cyburbian Dashboard's avatar
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    I would agree that the scope of planning is changing and expanding. We are no longer just land use planners or transportation planners. Planning is such an interdisciplinary field and planners are continually branching out. We incorporate growth management principles into plans more now than ever and many planners are more involved with economic development than in the past. Regionalism is catching on, we are planning at the watershed level, and are more in tune to environmental issues than in the past.

    September 11th also instantly changed the scope of planning. With homeland security at the forefront, we now contemplate safety issues more, we are more involved in hazard mitigation planning and in emergency management. GIS is being utilized by a whole slew of other departments and organizations.

    The way I see it, planners are going to be more valued as we press on toward the future. Let's hope so at least.

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    I prefer more careful planning. So many suburbs just seem to have been developped willy-nilly, which in turn leads to long-term ramifications for planning. I'm glad that various planners have been working with the infrastructure that is in place, yet are finding ways to make it seem less "unplanned".

    For instance, in the Twin Cities, areas that seem a bit like small towns are being built in a central location, of a suburb, yet have almost a quaint feeling. Sometimes it seems that places just go on forever, like Janesville. Talk about a mess with no planning. But when a more "human" and "aesthetic" element is brought in and cleverly reworks things, it makes everything seem better.

    One thing I've been doing when I do my huge city on SimCity is to have small little commericial areas IN ADDITION to a downtown area. Basically neighborhood areas. It's helped tremendously with the Sims satisfaction of a city and definately applies to real life as well.

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    Cyburbian Greenescapist's avatar
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    I think you all have made some great points about planning. I'm still a grad student (my last semester starts next week) and have taken many courses which I hope to tie together in the practice of planning, eg economics, public policy, transportation and urban ecology. It does seem that planners are increasingly involved with bringing everything together as true community developers.

    However, I am concerned about the traction wise use groups have gained lately. With the passage of that compensation proposition in OR, many other states will have similiar initiatives on their ballots next election. If planners lose low cost, creative policy tools to regulate land use then some efforts to curb decentralization will be hurt. I just hope I'll find a job in a progressive community which values responsible planning!

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