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Thread: Ever doubt the relationship between auto companies and Middle East oil?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Ever doubt the relationship between auto companies and Middle East oil?

    Quote Originally posted by The Detroit Free Press

    Dubai invests $1 billion in DCX

    Dubai bought a $1-billion stake in DaimlerChrysler AG, becoming its third-largest shareholder as the carmaker seeks to reverse three years of declining revenue.

    Persian Gulf oil producers, including the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, reaped a windfall last year from record oil prices, boosting their cash to invest. Mohammed Al Gergawi, chief executive of the government-owned Dubai Holding, announced the transaction in a statement Sunday.
    I guess Michael Moore was right in Fahrenheit 911: The Middle East owns the U. S.!


    It’s estimated that Saudi Arabia has roughly $860 billion invested in the United States, which amounts to roughly six or seven percent of America’s Wall Street investments.


    From the Fahrenheit 911 Teacher's Guide, page 14.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Can we just say that Middle Eastern companies can not buy stock on Wallstreet?

    I also thought that DaimlerChrysler is now a European company.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Can we just say that Middle Eastern companies can not buy stock on Wallstreet?
    Ha ha ha! And I always thought you were a free market liberal!

    NOTE: The article states the nation of Dubai has invested $1,000,000,000.00 in DCX.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian boilerplater's avatar
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    NOTE: The article states the nation of Dubai has invested $1,000,000,000.00 in DCX.
    With their social security funds, perhaps? And I'm sure they intend for their investment to go towards Daimler Chrysler's "Smart" car.

    But isn't Dubai a city in the U.A.E.?
    Adrift in a sea of beige

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boilerplater
    But isn't Dubai a city in the U.A.E.?
    You are correct. I misspoke myself.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Ok, its all about Oil. It always has been, and It always will be. America is out to oppress all but wealthy white land owning men between the age of 35 and 85.

    Jesus H. Tap Dancing Christ, can we move on?

  7. #7
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    eG It may be implied by the post, but nothing here surprises me. If UAE wants to invest in companies that ensure it's financial/industrial security, go for it.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Ok, so can someone tell us all why it all being about oil is so wrong?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    Ok, its all about Oil. It always has been, and It always will be. America is out to oppress all but wealthy white land owning men between the age of 35 and 85.

    Jesus H. Tap Dancing Christ, can we move on?
    Amen!

  10. #10
    Cyburbian boilerplater's avatar
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    Ok, so can someone tell us all why it all being about oil is so wrong?
    Because they will never ADMIT to it!!!

    They know it would be a politically untenable position, so they say its about freedom, democracy, threats, terror, etc.
    Adrift in a sea of beige

  11. #11
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boilerplater
    Because they will never ADMIT to it!!!

    They know it would be a politically untenable position, so they say its about freedom, democracy, threats, terror, etc.

    Yep, you and the rest of the dime-store state department officials have it all figured out.

    Read this and get back to me please: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1...tart.html?pg=2

  12. #12
    Cyburbian nuovorecord's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boilerplater
    Because they will never ADMIT to it!!!

    They know it would be a politically untenable position, so they say its about freedom, democracy, threats, terror, etc.
    That, plus the fact that's a diminishing resource. When it's gone, we're screwed.
    "There's nothing wrong with America that can't be fixed by what's right with America." - Bill Clinton.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian boilerplater's avatar
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    OK, I read the Dirty Harry approach article in Wired. Now if you will indulge me a little, take a look at this

    There is a variety of of devices one can use to motivate people, and yes, a closed fist is one of them. I just don't think it should be the only method or the one that the U.S. is known for. What is the best way? I guess that is up to the history books of the future to say.
    Adrift in a sea of beige

  14. #14
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boilerplater
    OK, I read the Dirty Harry approach article in Wired. Now if you will indulge me a little, take a look at this

    There is a variety of of devices one can use to motivate people, and yes, a closed fist is one of them. I just don't think it should be the only method or the one that the U.S. is known for. What is the best way? I guess that is up to the history books of the future to say.

    Ok, It may suprise you to learn I agree with the hyper hemp love badger on all of his points. No one is saying closed fist is the first recorse. We are saying that after 41 resolutions and 12 years its time to kill the guy and his kids who are filling unmarked graves and give the Iraqi people a shot at being free. In fact, until your little liberal heart filled up with hate for people like me that used to be a very liberal idea, the whole helping the less fortunate of the world.

    Ask yourself if the people of Iraq are better off today than they were under Saddam? Its just that simple. Will they be better off in five years? In 10? I think they will. Will they be New Hampshire? No. Will they be free? Yes, it is very likely. They weren't going to have a velvet revolution over there were they?

    I think they will eventually even thank America. I'm optimistic for the future of the world. I think W is on the right course. He does need to work on his PR though.

    I believe that if we can tople or apply pressure to the bad actors on the national stage we are doing humanity a favor. And yes, I'm bold enought to let America say "I know what's best for you - here's some connectivity to the monetary, information, security, and political rule sets in the rest of the world. Enjoy."

  15. #15
    Cyburbian jresta's avatar
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    Of course the problem with that mindset is that it's been the mindset since at least 1945, Kissinger Diplomacy if you will, and it's what got us into this mess in the first place.

    You think they might've learned but alas, no. All of these great public works projects in Iraq are going on in Shia areas to once again seperate the "good muslims" from the "bad muslims". 20 years ago it was "hey secular sunni Saddam! here are guns and chemical ingredients go kill fanatical shia muslims". Now it's "hey righteous shia arabs - keep these crazy saudi sunnis at bay, and while you're at it work on your crazy persian shia neighbors."

    The 'enemy of enemy is my friend' works in ancient fairy tales and maybe even in city hall but it's not good geopolitics and while the people crafting this policy might have the best of intentions the policy is rarely used for those ends. i.e., it's not about democracy (Pakistan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Belarus and host of other dictatorships we count among "friends") it's about resources.

    What's wrong with not living within your means? What happens when China invades Canada for their water?
    Indeed you can usually tell when the concepts of democracy and citizenship are weakening. There is an increase in the role of charity and in the worship of volunteerism. These represent the élite citizen's imitation of noblesse oblige; that is, of pretending to be aristocrats or oligarchs, as opposed to being citizens.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jresta
    What happens when China invades Canada for their water?

    The entire Canadian Army will die in a heroic fight. We'll bury both of those guys with hornors.
    The quality of Chinese take out will jump dramtically.
    Canadians will wear little Mao buttons when traveling abroad.
    The part of John Candy will be played by a Chineese dude.
    Rush will still rock on!
    The American guy selling Canadian t-Shirts will be up **** creek.
    No one in Vancover will notice a thing.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally posted by jresta
    Of course the problem with that mindset is that it's been the mindset since at least 1945, Kissinger Diplomacy if you will, and it's what got us into this mess in the first place.

    You think they might've learned but alas, no. All of these great public works projects in Iraq are going on in Shia areas to once again seperate the "good muslims" from the "bad muslims". 20 years ago it was "hey secular sunni Saddam! here are guns and chemical ingredients go kill fanatical shia muslims". Now it's "hey righteous shia arabs - keep these crazy saudi sunnis at bay, and while you're at it work on your crazy persian shia neighbors."

    The 'enemy of enemy is my friend' works in ancient fairy tales and maybe even in city hall but it's not good geopolitics and while the people crafting this policy might have the best of intentions the policy is rarely used for those ends. i.e., it's not about democracy (Pakistan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Belarus and host of other dictatorships we count among "friends") it's about resources.

    What's wrong with not living within your means? What happens when China invades Canada for their water?
    Amen. I'm so sick of hearing how we have to use "realpolitic." Kissinger is a war criminal by almost any yardstick. Sure, we "had" to, for example, wink and fund the Indonesian military as they tortued and raped in East Timor . Global politics, you know. The top down economics supported by our pet dictator and his corrupt military-and-crony-owned companies caused a collapse that Indonesia has still not recovered from. For what? One of the growing centers of Islamism is Indonesia. They don't really like us very much. So, we have a country of 200 million people who we have alienated-a country with a lot of oil they could easily cut off (or sell to the always eager to make a deal Chinese next door).

    Neocon realpolitic contradicts what "true" old fashioned conservatism preached. Plus, it never works. Last decade's dalliance with the devil always creates an even worse devil in the present.

    Why do conservatives want to be an empire, anyway? Are you that wedded to American Exceptionalism, the Civic religion? Can the American Project, the City on the Hill, really be spread through corruption and lies and, in its newest permutation, bloody invasion? What kind of City on the Hill is YOUR view, the Borg Death Star ("You will be assimilated. Only American culture will be allowed, or you wll be terminated).

    Empires are big government. Empires are expensive. Empires trample on the little people. Are these really conservative values?

  18. #18
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    Rush will still rock on!
    Amen brother!!! The weird part is, is that a Rush song came on as I read that.

    No one in Vancover will notice a thing.
    That is very true.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

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    EG. A bet, but one that will take a while to mature.

    Your bet is that in 10 years, Iraqis will be thanking the U.S. from their bastion of democracy (at least sort of, I won't be picky) and capitalism. My bet is that in 10 years, Iraq will be a seething hotbed of Islamic jihadists that is less dangerous than it could be only because the Shi'a and Sunni and Kurds are so busy duking it out with each other and probably with various neghboring nations.

    I'm not betting for what I want. I'd be happier with your outcome, but violence will beget violence AND (I think is even more a first principle since a little selective violence may indeed be necessary), solutions imposed from outside do not work.

    Oh, by the way, what IS wrong with IT being all about oil? Oil is dead, EG, the stored up remains of billions and billions and billions of little unicellular guys who deader than the proverbial doornail. IT is about things that are alive.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Lee Nellis
    EG. A bet, but one that will take a while to mature.

    Your bet is that in 10 years, Iraqis will be thanking the U.S. from their bastion of democracy (at least sort of, I won't be picky) and capitalism. My bet is that in 10 years, Iraq will be a seething hotbed of Islamic jihadists that is less dangerous than it could be only because the Shi'a and Sunni and Kurds are so busy duking it out with each other and probably with various neghboring nations.

    I'm not betting for what I want. I'd be happier with your outcome, but violence will beget violence AND (I think is even more a first principle since a little selective violence may indeed be necessary), solutions imposed from outside do not work.

    Oh, by the way, what IS wrong with IT being all about oil? Oil is dead, EG, the stored up remains of billions and billions and billions of little unicellular guys who deader than the proverbial doornail. IT is about things that are alive.
    Thanks for pointing out my typos Lee. I type the words in my head but my fingers don't always work the way I want them too. I could tell you why that is, but I don't feel like it. So, if I'm around in 10 years I hope you'll let me do the "In your face, I told you so" dance.

  21. #21

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    I'll dance with you EG. Its a bet I will be happy to lose.

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