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Thread: What are your thoughts on the "peak oil" debate?

  1. #101

    Great discussion

    Greetings all! I enjoyed rading all of the posts about this topic; it is one I feel strongly about. I have a few comments on ethanol...
    Right now, almost all ethanol produced in the U.S. is made from corn, which is a starch. But ethanol can also be produced from cellulosic biomass, which includes things like the stalks from corn, cotton residues, paper waste, paper sludge, fast growing poplar trees, switch grass, forest residues like deadfalls, and municipal waste, just to name a few of possible sources. A company named Bluefire in Orange County, CA is even making ethanol from post-sorted materials like paper and cardboard that would otherwise end up in landfills. Almost all of the sources mentioned are end products that otherwise go unused.
    The problem as I see it is that people think of trash as waste and not a source of energy. If we could think of waste as food, then we can capitalize on an unused resource and help save primary resources. Even using grey water from buildings and houses for irrigation.
    In addition, many useful byproducts are created by making ethanol, including gypsum, which is an excellent fertilizer and could replace the use of petroleum based fertilizers. Distiller's dry grain, an animal feed, is also produced as is corn syrup and xylithol (wood sugar). The leftover dry mass from ethanol is known as lingin and can be burned to fuel the fermentation process. There's an ethanol plant being built in New York that estimates enough lingin will be produced on site to make the plant energy self-sufficient.
    There is a snag, though more like an ironic twist. First, cellulosic ethanol requires a different enzyme as a catalyst during fermentation and it is relatively expensive to mass produce. The irony is that this is exactly the place our country was in one hundred years ago. The problem then, just like now, was that most ethanol was made from corn and not enough could be produced to meet the demand. The discovery of oil meant that ethanol was not likely to be the primary fuel source but ethanol could be used as an additive to increase octane and eliminate engine knocking. Again, the problem was that it was intensive to produce so alternatives were sought; thus, the intoduction of lead in gasoline. It accomplished similar results as ethanol and at a much cheaper cost. The point is that scientists were trying to develop cellulosic ethanol but the process requires a different enzyme that was, and is still today, expensive to mass produce. So, the same technology that could have changed the course of our history was stifled. But, many groups are working in the field of ceullulosic ethanol. For examle, Honda announced a recent breakthrough. Very soon the break-through will come and ethanol will take off.
    Finally, ethanol has many proven qualities such as increasing fuel octane, cleaning engine deposits, and only releases a CO2 gas which is neutral gas and does not contirbute to greenhouse gases
    See, the problem as I see it is that people think of trash as waste and not a source of energy. If we could think of waste as food, then we can capitalize on an unused resource and help save primary resources. Even using grey water from buildings and houses for irrigation.

    Check out noojournal.com and send in an article to be published! Don't for get to check out noo.

  2. #102
    Member
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    I feel that the main problem is that the majority of the world's oil reserves are controlled by inefficient state owned companies, that are unwilling or able to increase the supply of oil rather than the world running out of oil quickly. Either way alternative sources of energy are likely to play a greater role in the future.

  3. #103
    Cyburbian safege's avatar
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    Jul 2005
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    Golden Valley MN
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    Ethanol is not an answer. Transitways, park n' rides, overhead suspended light rail, and in some cases traffic avoiding standard light rail (and other slow electric modes) are the answer. See link below.

    http://www.asianwildlife.com/product...rain/candp.asp
    Psychotics are consistently inconsistent. The essence of sanity is to be inconsistently inconsistent.
    -Larry Wall

  4. #104
    I don't see how increased biofuel production is not part of the solution. First of all, what is going to power trains in the future? Electricity? Some type of fuel? Since it is unlikely that the use of coal will not stop in the near future, why not co-fire power plants with biomass? As for fuels, biodiesel would be an ideal way to power fuel-driven trains since it can run in any diesel engine. And what about the vast regions of our country where mass transit would not be feasible? We need ethanol and biodiesel to fuel vehicles so we don't have to rely on oil, the price and future of is incredibly volitile. I agree with you, mass transit systems are the way to go in dense urban areas, but that is only one part of the solution. Even biofuels is just one part. There is no single resource or technology that will cure everything. Instead, conservation, first and foremost, and investment in new technologies and resources are the winning combination.

    And let's not forget smart urban planning, which is applicable to this site. Builders and planners need to focus on limiting urban sprawl, or at least creating shopping centers and other facilities in central locations that limit the amount of travel necessary. Bring back neighborhood stores instead of building non-descript, industrial warehouse, cinder-block monstrosities. And, like you said, incorporate better transit systems that allow people to move about without a personal vehicle.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 04 Dec 2006 at 10:35 AM. Reason: double reply

  5. #105
    Cyburbian
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    Apr 2008
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    Colchester, IL and Ft. Wayne, IN
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    Model Sustainable and/or Hydrogen City

    I first discovered "Peak Oil" in the summer of 2005. Since then, I've been researching both the problems and possible solutions. The book "Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial Revolution" has contributed significantly to my understanding. I have scanned the previous posts in this thread for opinions on hydrogen as a possible energy carrier. Like there is in discussions elsewhere, some see hope and others see hype in the proposed hydrogen economy. Perhaps we could test the idea by developing model sustainable and/or hydrogen cities as prototypes for innovative urban planning. Please see my "Model Sustainable/Hydrogen City" post under the "Post carbon cities" thread in the "Environmental Planning" forum for my thoughts. or see this link to this forum cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32512 I would appreciate your thoughts.

  6. #106

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