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Thread: Marajuana Grow Ops and Police Murders in Canada

  1. #1
    Cyburbian MitchBaby's avatar
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    Marajuana Grow Ops and Police Murders in Canada

    It's no secret that we have a problem with Grow Operations here in Canada and in particular in BC. Most of them are operated through organised crime of some kind, and its the people who grow their own pot with 1 or 2 plants that aren't the problem. Its the large scale, high money, high producing grow ops that are the problem, yet police don't have much ability to deal with them effectively. Yesterday is an example.

    Yesterday, 4 Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers were ambushed and killed by a man because they raided his grow op/stolen car facility - the cops were just guarding the site while waiting for the investigation team to get there. The piss off of the whole thing is that the alleged murderer (who committed suicide) was arrested the night before because of the grow op and stolen car facility, and released by the Justice of the Peace later that night. He returned with a high powered rifle and shot the four cops, only 1 of those cops had time to draw his weapon before being gunned down. It's a tragic day for police services wherever you are.

    Here's the CBC's story on it, though its even been on CNN

    I have friends in the RCMP, I've worked with them at previous planning jobs and cooperated with them as a student at University - they are among the most professional and well-trained police officers anywhere in the world. Generally speaking I've yet to meet an unkind RCMP officer, who even in the midst of giving me a speeding ticket was friendly, jovial, and considerate.

    Yesterday we lost 4 young, brave officers of the law. Each of them had less than 3 years experience each, 1 of them was just out of RCMP training for only 2 weeks .

    I've thought of being an RCMP officer and using my planning degree in that way... I just needed a place to vent - I don't know why this has hit me so much personally...
    Last edited by MitchBaby; 04 Mar 2005 at 12:38 PM.
    Mitchbaby: Proud to be a :canada: planner and a :canada: surfer

  2. #2
    That really sucks Mitch. While in Vancouver I had a really good interaction with a couple of police officers, they were extrememly polite and helped me out big time, good police!

  3. #3
    Cyburbian nerudite's avatar
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    Yeah, that happened NW of the city I work for here. Grow op raids aren't strange around here... but shoot-outs are. All our flags are at half-mast for the next week or two till the memorials are over.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    Another affirmation of gun control laws... Just think how frequent this sort of thing would be if semi-automatics were more or less a household item?

    I can assure you that the RCMP has less than... friendly members in its ranks. I seem to meet them, time and time again. That being said, this is a horrible tragedy. When I saw this story this morning my first thought was that flags should be at half mast at all federal institutions... post offices, government offices, parliament, universities, and so forth.

    I also read an Albertan liberal member mumbling about the fact this may not have happened if we had legalized pot. I find that comment to be in very poor taste. It trivializes the event. It also displays a remarkable amount of naivete being that the liberal fellow seems to think legalizing (decriminalizing?) pot will somehow remove the criminal element overnight.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian MitchBaby's avatar
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    But doesn't Canada have strict gun laws? I know rifles are okay, but it's very different from the U.S.

    Frankly, gun control has little to do with it - its more to do with the inability of the Canadian justice system to act, and to keep a man in jail who is known to be dangerous. I personally hope the Justice who apparently let the man go on his own recognisance loses his/her job because there is no reason why these officers should be dead...
    Mitchbaby: Proud to be a :canada: planner and a :canada: surfer

  6. #6
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by abrowne
    Another affirmation of gun control laws... Just think how frequent this sort of thing would be if semi-automatics were more or less a household item?

    I can assure you that the RCMP has less than... friendly members in its ranks. I seem to meet them, time and time again. That being said, this is a horrible tragedy. When I saw this story this morning my first thought was that flags should be at half mast at all federal institutions... post offices, government offices, parliament, universities, and so forth.

    I also read an Albertan liberal member mumbling about the fact this may not have happened if we had legalized pot. I find that comment to be in very poor taste. It trivializes the event. It also displays a remarkable amount of naivete being that the liberal fellow seems to think legalizing (decriminalizing?) pot will somehow remove the criminal element overnight.
    But doesn't Canada have strict gun laws? I know rifles are okay, but it's very different from the U.S.
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  7. #7
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by MitchBaby
    Frankly, gun control has little to do with it - its more to do with the inability of the Canadian justice system to act, and to keep a man in jail who is known to be dangerous.
    Well, I must respectfully disagree. Gun control does relate. To say it is the only cause is incorrect, but to say it does not relate is also incorrect. I believe this sort of thing would be much more common if it weren't for restrictions on semi-automatic weaponry. As you posted, only one of them had time to draw a weapon. They were just mowed down in one swoop.

    As for the justice system, I agree. What prompted the Justice of the Peace to release this person? Releasing an offender is a fairly common thing, I suppose its hard to know which will turn around and go on a rampage and which will prepare for their court appearance. So, more funding for psychologists, then? How to remedy this?

    Gun control laws in Canada aren't actually as tough as some think. You can own historical weaponry and rifles (but not automatic or semi-automatic). As far as I know the ownership of handguns is strictly prohibited. All of this being said, if you want a gun, you can get one.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian MitchBaby's avatar
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    I think we're on the same page - I'm not saying gun control isn't an issue, but just in this case, it is irrelevant because he was using a "high powered rifle" whatever that means...

    But a murder on this scale is unheralded anywhere, let along Canada - such a massacre would recieve outrage in the States too - the fact of the matter is that in this specific case, it was a lack of coordination between the law and the police - why was this man set free hours after being arrested for having a grow-up AND having a stolen car facility?

    Those are the questions I'm asking in between my anger and sadness.
    Mitchbaby: Proud to be a :canada: planner and a :canada: surfer

  9. #9
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Okay... how did Mitchs reply get above my post?

    I'm way too "fragile" after last nights 3 martini, 12 beer, karaoke singing night for mind games!
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  10. #10
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by MitchBaby
    its more to do with the inability of the Canadian justice system to act, and to keep a man in jail who is known to be dangerous.
    Sadly around these parts it's more or less the same... Heck intrafamiliar violence isn't even a crime (yet... I hope) And our jails aparently have rotating doors.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian MitchBaby's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    Okay... how did Mitchs reply get above my post?

    I'm way too "fragile" after last nights 3 martini, 12 beer, karaoke singing night for mind games!
    sorry - edited my response after seeing your reply as it was related... no need to be confused...
    Mitchbaby: Proud to be a :canada: planner and a :canada: surfer

  12. #12
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    So let's think, then - what changes would we make to the justice system? We must remember that it is a precious institution and precariously balanced. Rash changes are ill-advised.

    At the moment I am thinking of creating 'classes' of crime. Class one would be offences like vandalism, possession of marijuana, theft under $5k, minor motor vehicle offences, and so forth and would be releasable. Classes would then steadily increase in severity of crimes and decrease in allowing release.

    Does something like this already exist?

  13. #13
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by MitchBaby
    sorry - edited my response after seeing your reply as it was related... no need to be confused...
    Whew... For a minute I thought I was losing what remained of my mind.
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  14. #14
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Canada is such a cuddly little country. Even its drugs are cute.

    Here, all the hillbillies are making Meth.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian MitchBaby's avatar
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    Here's the latest - turns out the guy had a sub-machine gun of some kind...
    Mitchbaby: Proud to be a :canada: planner and a :canada: surfer

  16. #16
    Cyburbian donk's avatar
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    A few years ago in NB an during the raid of an outside grow op, the police found booby trappped /land mined pot plants. They where hooked to the triggers of sawed off shotguns that where set to go off if the plants where pulled out of the ground. Luckily no one was hurt during the raid.

    If the criminal in this situation had a machine gun/ fully automatic weapon, then all the gun control legislation in the world would not have prevented this tragedy.

    Heard an interview with his father, who basically disowned him.
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

  17. #17
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by MitchBaby
    Here's the latest - turns out the guy had a sub-machine gun of some kind...
    It did strike me as a bit odd that only one of those Mounties would have been able to get a return shot off against someone whom was shooting at them with a semi-automatic rifle. It simply fires too slowly. All that 'semi-automatic' means is that it fires ONE and ONLY ONE shot with each pull of the trigger, with the weapon automatically reloading the firing chamber after each shot. Most hunting rifles used in the USA are semi-automatic.

    Most other rifles are bolt-action, which means that the shooter has to manually reload the weapon after each shot, making for a much more difficult challenge in hunting (and one shot is all that he'll likely get, too, because if he misses, the target animal will be gone before he can reload). Interestingly, most weapons used by military snipers are also bolt action, ditto competition target shooters, as they tend to me much more accurate than semi-automatics. In keeping with the past week's avatar theme, the weapon that Lee Harvey Oswald used against President Kennedy was a bolt-action rifle with a sighting scope.

    The gangster here most certainly used a fully automatic weapon (fires shots continuously for as long as the trigger is pulled or until the ammunition runs out), something that is illegal to possess even here in the USA, without hard-to-get special Federal licenses and permits.

    The biggest questions here, though, should be directed to the judge whom let that scum out -- the stolen car chop shop involvement alone should have been enough to keep him behind bars with a LARGE bail (at least here in the USA).

    My sincere condolences to all concerned.

    Mike

  18. #18
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    The officers were all so young... agh.

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