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Thread: Workplace attire

  1. #26
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Hmmm....

    I think we could all benefit from some photo's of what not to do.......I can't wait to see them......
    Skilled Adoxographer

  2. #27
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    I get to wear ratty jeans, but usually put on a decent shirt. If I know I'm going to be out doing public works stuff, a t-shirt or sweatshirt is fine.

    When my air conditioner broke, my boss decided is was close enough to fall to wait a year... I threatened to wear a speedo and nothing else. For those of you who've seen me, that's quite a threat!
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  3. #28
    Quote Originally posted by AubieTurtle
    As a consultant the general rule in my company is to dress one level better than the standard for the client. I'm waiting for the day we get a client that requires a jacket and tie so I can go to the next level and show up in a tux!
    Maybe I'm the oddball, but this has precisely the opposite effect --to me -- than what I perceive is intended. AT, I'm not pointing at you specifically because many consultants have this or a similar policy. But after public meetings with consultants dressed in jackets/ties or suits/ties, I often hear the public whisper about how "those suits" don't get it. Just an observation.
    On pitching to Stan Musial:
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  4. #29
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    On Consultants (and I am NOT singleing ANY Cyburbian out):

    I have never had a consultant wear a tie or really go beyond dress casual at any meeting. I have even worked on projects with representatives of big national home builders. Maybe they are catering "one step above" us, but I tend to expect more from the private sector I guess.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
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  5. #30

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    Quote Originally posted by spunky2
    As my husband often complains, dress codes do not apply to women. I don't know about that... I think women do a pretty good job of policing themselves in the dress code wars.

    That said, it is hotter than hell here in Las Vegas and us ladies wear sleeveless all the time. Men wear short sleeved dress shirts which I bet is a big no-no in most states. Here you actually get harassed here if you look like you are dressed too warmly in the summer time or you wear too much black.

    So the conclusion is: it depends on what is appropriate for weather.
    I'm surprised we've heard from no Aussies: knee length shorts, black socks, and dress shoes. Urk!

  6. #31
    Cyburbian
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    I went to a job interview once and the planning director was in shorts and a t shirt. Of course it was in a very laid back resort town. Our dress code is basically don't wear anything that you would wear while painting your house, working in your garden, etc. Our justice court is one floor below us and we have a pretty good view of the entrance. It is pretty comical watching what somepeople wear to court.

  7. #32
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    You don't even want to get me started on "workplace attire". All this talk of what is "appropriate" and "innapropriate". Yeah, our teachers taught us how to count and read when we went to school, but they never actually mentioned the truth about the world of work - They could have at least said, "Oh, and by they way, those born with a penis will be choking themselves with a noose, and those born with a vagina, will be immobilized with foot-destroying high-heels." Everything about formal dress wear is about announcing to the world, "I'm so rich, I can wear clothes that are totally impractical for doing anything that might actually induce sweating!" Of course the pretense of the clothing is a lie, as the middle class continues to fall into debt as the price of admission for getting their foot into the proverbial door.

    Women learn early, the power that comes from paying attention to the superficial costumes of the adult world. Unfortunately, the power of the body is all some of them ever cultivate. Men wake up each day with the blade and the noose, resigned to the fact that their bodies have no inherent value apart from their ability to labor. Occaissionally, beautiful women such as Oprah Winfrey and Martha Stewart, realize that they are in fact more powerful than men because they have the ability to work hard just as men do, in addition to the inherent value of their bodies as sex objects. They understand that having a penis isn't necessary for getting a-HEAD in the world. And they aren't about to throw away their independence to someone who will pay for them to be a housewife.

    Everyone knows Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" speech in which he says he dreams of a world where black children are, "judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." Well Martin, I'm afraid were not yet that evolved as a species. People are still judged by the color of their skin and the costume they wear on top of it, long before any words are uttered from their mouth, let alone any inkling of their true character is allowed to emanate from beneath the facade of "professional dress".

    I'm not suggesting that there's no reason to be well-clothed. Nor am I suggesting that people should just wear the same thing like Chairman Mao with his commie blue-gray outfit. (Although men are already limited to this with the exception of the small bit of neck-choking real estate upon which they are granted the extravagant freedom of wearing something other than blue, black or gray.) My beef is that formal dress demands a self-enclosed climate controlled pod to deliver you to work safely and comfortably and thus perpetuates our reliance on cars and oil. There's no reason nice looking clothes have to be uncomfortable. But discomfort appears to be the defining feature of anything that is considered to be "dressy". We may have achieved wonders of science but when it comes to attire, our culture is every bit as arbitrary, fickle, shallow and primitive as those that put rings around women's neck's, or chinese footbinging, or those that stretch their lips with disks.

    Man, I don't just have issues with this subject - I got a subscription!
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  8. #33
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    Man, I don't just have issues with this subject - I got a subscription!
    Maybe you need a good tailor more than a therapist. Seriously. My first "dream career" plan was Image Consulting. I had a bunch of books on the topic but such fantasies were derailed by a baby who rudely showed up 7 years ahead of schedule. My mom trained for a time with a tailor and is an excellent seamstress and I grew up standing for fittings. If it is a natural material (or mostly natural) and fits you properly, a lot of nice clothes can be comfortable. It just takes more effort to meet two sets of criteria than one. It is easier to choose one criterion -- either comfort OR looks -- and meet only one of those goals. As a general rule, my comfort comes first and always has. I am a serious hedonist -- and I like to also dress well most of the time. The truth is that looking good is more about understanding what works well for your body type, coloring, and face. I highly recommend David Kibbe's Metamorphosis as the only clothing book that adequately addresses that topic in a practical way.

    Also, having studied the history of clothing somewhat, I would not agree with your premise that it is all about advertising that you are too rich to sweat. Short skirts and long skirts go in cycles and correlate to fiscal cycles: depression-era people tend to be more covered up and skirts get shorter when there is more money to go around. Wars dramatically impact dress style (WWI ended the practice of using corsets, much to the benefit of women, and took us in a few short years from long dresses covering women to wrist and ankle to the miniskirts of the flapper era). And there is much more. I know that there is some truth to what you say but it really isn't that simple. Formal dress tends to be old fashioned. The more formal, the older it is. For example, formal dress at the Vatican reflects styles that have been dead for a few hundred years. American military dress blues have lighter pants than jackets due to the fact that during the American Civil War, the jacket was often in the saddle bag so the pants got bleached out by the sun much more than the jacket did. We now intentionally MAKE the jacket and pants different colors in honor of something which occured by happen-stance more than a hundred years ago.

    I could probably go on. But I think Simcity would be a more relaxing way to unwind before I get back to my preparations to move. (Not meaning to crack on you. It's just a pet topic of mine in many ways. )

  9. #34
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    MZ, thanks for your understanding. I will take a look at the book you mentioned. Perhaps I have been too dismissive of the tailor's art. Doubtlessly, it's a very complex issue. As a male, I just feel like, "Well, I may not have anything as appealing as cleavage to reveal, but is that any reason why I need to be choked?" I fully sympathize with women who complain about the often ridiculous footware that is expected of them. I just have a problem with tradition I guess. And all too often tradition goes hand-in-hand with authority. Dress clothes are both a cause of, and a perpetuating effect of the hierarchical paternalism of our society, because they emphasize a chain of command, and whose on top. If our society were egalitarian, the only person on top would be your lover.

    David Kibbe's Metamorphosis
    MZ, although the book's author is a man, (I assume), from the Amazon description, it sounds like the book only discusses fashion for women. It seems like women have a wider range of expression. Men are just supposed to get hot under the collar keeping their emotions stuffed inside. And then we wonder why men die 7 years sooner than women.

    If I ever won the presidentcy, the first thing I'd do is take off my tie and set if on fire. And then I'd say, "I bet a lot of men would like to do the same. Well go ahead why don't you. It doesn't impress me any. I'm the man now, so there's really no need for me to wear such an uncomfortable, vestigial, anachronistic, heart-attack inducing piece of fabric."

    We haven't had a president with facial hair since Teddy Rosevelt, and who knows how many more centuries will need to pass before they cease being anything besides suit wearing white males. Perhaps our first female president (Hilary anyone? ) could begin to erode the social mores that require a male such as myself to transform into the object of my own self-hatred.

    Like I said, I got a subscription yo! Good luck with the move MZ.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 26 May 2005 at 8:19 AM.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  10. #35
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    If our society were egalitarian, the only person on top would be your lover.
    Oh? Would he? That's a much more sexist, power-based assumption than you think. In many cultures, the "missionary" position is not the norm. But this is not the forum for getting into the power plays and psychology behind cultural sexual norms.

    My husband is career military and hates ties as well. If a collar is sized properly and a tie is tied properly, it helps. I no longer know how to tie a tie but I used to. If I recall correctly, clip on ties sometimes also are somewhat looser. It took me 18 years to teach my husband how to dress well. Now that he owns a few silk dress shirts and proper dress shoes, he prefers to dress more formally (after years of going to nice restaurants in cargo shorts while I was dressed to the nines, ). Even though we were legally separated, he took me with him when he wanted to purchase a leather jacket. He tried it on for me, I took one look at it and told him to try the next smaller size. He tried to protest and I said "Why did you bring me along?" He tried the next smaller size, it was a perfect fit and it "fixed" some of the things he felt were "wrong" with the jacket. There was nothing wrong with the cut of the jacket, just the size he had chosen.

    Metamorphosis is aimed at women. You will have to liberally translate some of the info in it to serve you. But the same basic principles apply to men. For example, my husband has a very grey cast to his coloring -- ash-blonde hair, steely blue eyes, etc. The colors that work well for him are very limited. Gold glasses look terrible on him. I have encouraged him towards silver or chrome for many years. He looks great in charcoal grey with a deep wine shirt. Etc.

    The tailor's art is, unfortunately, a dying art. If you lived close enough, you could pay me for a consult. (I still do that for friends sometimes.)

    EDIT: Yes, it is a women's fashion book -- the only one like it and one of the few clothing books I will recommend to anyone (having owned two shelves of such books). There is an author who does research on what works for power dressing. I know he has done a woman's book. He may have also done a man's book. I can try to find that name for you after my move if you are interested. His advice is also solid. A third book I liked promotes something called "the capsule concept" -- the idea is to purchase the main foundation pieces of your wardrobe in two compatible colors and then have a few things in other colors to spice it up.

    Metamorphosis profiles your body type and coloring and tells you what shades and shapes work well for you, as well as what weights of material. I have used that idea in helping my husband shop. See if you can get it from a library. An example is that it tells you who looks good in stripes and plaids and who looks terrible in them. I look best in somewhat asymmetrical patterns, like paisley. Polka dots can be okay for me but not tiny ones and not large ones -- somewhere in between. Most plaids look dreadful on me. Belt buckles also need to be that cross between curved and sharp for me. Some people look wonderful in square belt buckles and other people really need more rounded shapes. Etc. No other book on the planet will tell you which of those shapes works for YOU.

  11. #36
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    Oh? Would he?
    Hey, lighten up. Women can be on top just as well as a man can. That's why I said "person". Many women find being on top helps them better achieve orgasm; it's all good to me.

    But OK. I'll give the book a further look at the bookstore or a library. You seem to be saying, "Study the traditions to see what works for you." There is merit to this approach. When it comes to religion, and belief systems, I freely adopt what I find to be beneficial from all and ignore what I don't like, without feeling like I have to be beholden to a single belief system. When it comes to fashion however, I guess I am more inclined to just wanna "throw out the baby with the bathwater". LOL. But I am not a tailor or a seamstress, so you're right in that we pretty much have to decide what we like that's in the stores, unless we want to sew our own clothes, which I'm not about to do at this point.
    Last edited by dobopoq; 25 May 2005 at 9:25 PM.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  12. #37
    Cyburbian sisterceleste's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess
    Sleeveless blouses are very common here. Women don't wear jackets over them, either.
    It's Florida.....sometimes you go to work and the air conditioning is not working in the old, rat infested building I work in.
    You darn tootin', I like fig newtons!

  13. #38
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    Hey, lighten up.
    That was light.

    Don't get me started. Really. I am tired, in pain, and on antihistamines. I have a history of going down in flames Big Time under such circumstances. Do everyone a favor and walk way. Cuz I probably can't, sigh.

  14. #39
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    That was light.

    Don't get me started. Really. I am tired, in pain, and on antihistamines. I have a history of going down in flames Big Time under such circumstances. Do everyone a favor and walk way. Cuz I probably can't, sigh.
    MZ, I'm sorry you're not feeling well right now. I appreciate the insights you have shared on the issue of fashion. You are among the Cyburbians I have a high regard for. Let's blog with friendly spirit. Peace.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  15. #40
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    MZ, I'm sorry you're not feeling well right now. I appreciate the insights you have shared on the issue of fashion. You are among the Cyburbians I have a high regard for. Let's blog with friendly spirit. Peace.
    You didn't listen. You didn't walk away. Now I am compelled to reply.

    I'm not mad or anything. I just get misunderstood in the worst possible way when I am in pain and slightly wired -- and antihistamines seem to be the worst about that. Other drugs don't seem to leave me nearly as socially impaired.

    Now: Shut. Up. I can't find the off-switch on my mouth when I am tired. It is really tiny and well-hidden and difficult to find under the best of circumstances.

  16. #41
    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    Like Mr. Ferrell, I like to show my spirit at work.

    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

  17. #42
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by H
    Like Mr. Ferrell, I like to show my spirit at work.

    Highly appropriate attire for this thread. Good one H. That does not flatter Mr. Farrell's figure, but he looks comfortable. A comfortable worker is a productive worker.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  18. #43
    Member Nor Cal Planner Girl's avatar
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    It's pretty casual at my work place. As long as no one is wearing anything that inappropriately revealing- and the costume looks fairly 'work related'. I wear jeans pretty often with a nice top. We wear sleeveless stuff- no one cares and it looks fine. For the hearings, I always look the part- slacks and a jacket (usually black) with a white blouse- and hair is pulled back in a pony tail

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra
    Do you find sleeveless blouses inappropriate for the workplace? I don't mean wifebeaters or tight tank tops, I mean a shirt with a collar/turtleneck, etc but no sleeves?? What else do you find inapprorpriate but perhaps see a lot of coworkers wearing?
    I personally found them to be inapprorpiate prior to working here. Everyone wears them around here, alone, not under a jacket. We were just discussing this in the office and thought I would ask the throbbing brain...

    In my building we have several departments. Attire is business casual...a term I use loosely, most days. For men on regular work days the attire is usually some form of slack such as Docker's and a polo shirt or button-up shirt without tie. On days when BZA meets or planning commission or other type of City Hall meetings a dressier outfit complete with jacket is common. On Friday it isn't uncommon to see jeans and polo shirt. For the most part this seems just fine, and consultants that meet with us almost always appear in polo shirts and casual pants/jeans. for some reason a guy can seem to wear essentially the same outfit every day and still look good (maybe it is the same outfit, I don't know).

    Clothing for women, however, seems to swing from one extreme to another, depending on the age of the lady involved and her respective weight (I'm a woman and I notice these things). Some ladies prefer clothing from the tent/awning store, others from Victoria's Secret. Ladies with new babies prefer loose fitting and comfy clothes. Attention-getters often wear the sleeveless outfits, as well as high, high heels. Nobody in our building wears cleavage-revealing outfits. I myself opt for conservative, and most of the time will wear khaki's and a shirt or jacket/blouse combo if I'm not going to a meeting. If I have a committee or a meeting scheduled I wear dressier shoes/slacks/skirts, etc. Sometimes I have to have several outfits if I am going to a meeting, but then need to canvas a neighborhood measuring curb-widths or something of that nature. I guess the point I'm making is that somebody, I am not certain who, lets us choose what we wish to wear, and expects us not to be an embarassment to the City. Nobody I know has been counseled as of yet.

  20. #45
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    I'm one of the neatest dressers in the entire department. There is one inspecter that has been around for 25 years - a plumbing inspector. He usually wears old tattered jean coveralls and a shirt from Avon that has a wolf on it. A big wolf design. He has different wolf designs and rotates thru. He is also huge, both in height and width. Not fat, really, just BIG and hulking in a get-out-of-my-way vibe. He's known all over town as a lover of pubs. To top all of this off he has moderately long, kind of flowing blonde-ish/grey hair.

    Others wear jeans and a ratty t-shirt. Others wear moderate casual wear. The Director of Planning is the only one that is reliably in a suit.

    It's a fun office (no sarcasm, they're all pretty good folks).

  21. #46
    Cyburbian jread's avatar
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    I will continue to wear my t-shirts and jeans until someone forces me to wear anything else.... at gunpoint.

  22. #47
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Someone wrote me privately -- not a member of Cyburbia -- to talk to me about my comments in this thread about David Kibbe. They also mentioned to me that

    David Kibbe helped Carol Jackson of Color Me Beautiful write Color for Men. <snip>... it includes style categories as well (Romantic, Dramatic, Gamin, Natural and Classic).
    Just thought some of the guys might be interested in that fact.

    Off-topic:
    I received an e-mail last night from someone else about a different FAC posting of mine. That was a little weird, especially the two coming so close together. It prompted me to finally add my thoughts here about good posting practices -- something I have been intending to do anyway.

  23. #48
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    We have a pretty laid-back office. No dress code. Most of the planners and other personnel wear jeans. I do not, simply because I have never found jeans comfortable. In the summer I wear a Hawaiian shirt once or twice a week.

    Usually I wear standard male planner garb - button down shirt and Dockers. I wore those before I became a planner. I just find them comfortable. The shirts are fitted according to sleeve and collar length. They fit!

    I've heard the argument that some planner make that you need to dress like the public, so you look like "plain folk." I think that is B.S. I had a boss who dressed like a rancher. He said it helped when he went to talk to the ag folks. Okay. But I gave up dressing like a cowboy when I was nine. I am not a rancher. Dressing like a cowboy is every bit as ostentatious as showing up dressed like a "white collar" professional.

    Same thing with wearing jeans and t-shirts. Whatever you wear is a reflection of how you want to be projected to others. Whatever you wear is your "uniform"

    My workday uniform is a button-down dress shirt, Dockers-style pants, nice shoes and my socks pretty much match my pants. When I go to a meeting I tend to wear my sports coat (I paid $5 for it at the Goodwill). No tie, as a rule.

    I am projecting that I am a professional. I am serious about what I do. Maybe you should listen to me. If you want to know about how to shoe a horse, go ask the guy with s**t on his boots. Want to know how to build a house, go ask the guy with drywall dust on his pants. Want to know how to develop your land within state and local regulations, come see me. I'm the guy in the blue shirt and Dockers.

    I work in an office for the most part. I am educated. My shoes don't have horses**t on them, unless I didn't watch where I was walking while doing my last site inspection.

    What is not immediately obvious is that I also have a wife who buys me nice clothes on ocassion and irons my clothes every week. Before I met her, my clothes never felt the press of an iron. Prior to her, I used the bachelor's ironing method (I took my clothes out of the dryer when they were still hot and hung them up right away.

    Wear whatever "uniform" suits you.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  24. #49
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Flannel Bath Robe... untied... and flapping in the wind...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  25. #50
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    This Bear's distribution center shakes down as follows.....

    For years it was suit and tie for the office, no such thing as "casual Friday" or anything like that. About ten (10) years ago.....coincidence, just about the time this Bear joined in.....we started to loosen the rules.

    Now the office environment is casual everyday. No sleeveless, though, and unless you are working on something outside of "the wall" and are in the main plant, no jeans.

    I wear jeans all of the time. I spend a lot of time on the floor with my employees. When I am attending business meetings or have visitors, back to casual "planner-like" attire.

    In our plant we allow our employees to wear shorts, as long as they are not too short. We often joke around about measuring "so and so's" exposed thighs to see if she is in compliance. (Oh my, not politically correct...)

    On 90-degree plus days, the 2nd and 3rd levels of our pick modules (elevated work areas with conveyors) get mighty hot. Shorts help on those days.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

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