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Poll results: What's the better MIssouri city ... The Lou, or KCMO?

Voters
38. You may not vote on this poll
  • St. Louis

    21 55.26%
  • Kansas City

    17 44.74%
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Thread: City vs City #1 - St. Louis vs Kansas City

  1. #1
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    City vs City #1 - St. Louis vs Kansas City

    St. Louis - pros

    Outstanding high culture
    Central West End - parks, pedestrian oriented high density neighborhoods
    Architecture - Sullivan, brick homes, etc.
    Solid ethnic neighborhoods
    Bohemian edge
    More colleges and universities than KC
    Close to other large Midwestern and Appalachian cities

    St. Louis - cons

    Profound urban decay and population loss on the north side and East St. Louis
    Aesthetically challenged - billboards galore throughout the metropolitan region
    Urban sprawl extending +50 km of downtown ... very far for a city its size.
    A few portions of downtown show evidence of Detroit-like characteristics re: abandonment

    Kansas City - pros

    Country Club Plaza, Crown Center and other vibrant areas in the city
    Parks and parkway system
    Stable urban neighborhoods, with few exceptions
    Clean and attractive, with little urban decay compared to comparable cities
    Growing city population (thanks to Kansas City North)
    Most comprehensive expressway system for a city its size in the US; level of service B during rush hour

    Kansas City - cons

    Downtown has very little nightlife
    Perception of being a bit dull
    Not very compact; no rail transit
    Competition between states, little regional planning
    Horrible airport
    What happens if Sprint pulls a Worldcom?
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  2. #2
    Cyburbian El Feo's avatar
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    Dan, I dig the new feature

    City smackdown - what a great idea!
    "The fanatical Muslims despise America because it's all lapdancing and gay porn; the secular Europeans despise America because it's all born-again Christians hung up on abortion; the anti-Semites despise America because it's controlled by Jews. Too Jewish, too Christian, too Godless, America is also too isolationist, except when it's too imperialist." -- Mark Steyn

  3. #3
    I have visited St. Louis 4 or 5 times and KC once. I had to vote for St. Louis due to the presence of two downtown stadiums (with good teams playing in them), La Clede's landing, etc.

    KC has does have some cool things like the Negro League Baseball Museum, the Jazz museum, and Country Club Plaza. Plus Gates BBQ ribs Being a sports fan, I enjoyed Kaufmann Stadium, but it is kind of in the middle of nowhere (plus the Royals play there). However, it didn't seem very vibrant but that may be due to the fact I was only there for 3 days.

    How about a Madison, WI vs Milwaukee, WI smackdown for a future thread?
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

    - Homer Simpson

  4. #4

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    St Louis. I just like old fashioned 'brick and stone" cities. Even in decay, St Louis' neighborhoods have a character I like.

    KC definitely benefited from the City Beautiful movement, but it felt a little bland. And, I like the nice suburbs of St Louis better than Johnson County (not that I could afford to live in either ) . Finally, the topo in St Louis wins, overall.

  5. #5
    Member Bucky alum's avatar
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    Dan, Let me dispute MCI (Kansas City Airport) with you. Yes it is out in the middle of nowhere, however is a very convient airport for originating or departing passengers. It is horrible for connecting passengers but you will only do that on Southwest, but Southwest always sucks for connections no matter where you are.

    The airport I believe was the last major airport built before degregulation and the concepts of hub and spoke. In case you haven't been there, you walk in the door, check in and the gate is no more than 25 feet from the front door. Each seating lounge is closed off and has its own security.

    I think Mid-America is one of the worst airports in the country. TWA's downfall of the last 10 years left the airport in despair.

    Aside from that--

    All in all I think Kansas City, Milwaukee, and St. Louis will be considered successful urban renewal in the next ten years due to the availability of lofts downtown and cheap office space. The key will be developing a niche with the univesities nearby to foster growth.

    However Kansas City to me is a better city due to the extensive parks and no E. St. Louis.

  6. #6
    Member Bucky alum's avatar
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    JT Fortin

    I get to do the writeup on Madison!! I however would rather see a matchup of similar sized cities such as Milwaukee vs Minneapolis. BTW, Madison v Milwaukee isn't even close. Madison is the obvious choice

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Joe Iliff's avatar
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    Dan, do you want us to look at these as tourists/visitors, or potential residents, or with an overall point of view? If I'm visiting a city for a few days, then I want interesting sites and amenities, convenient transportation to them, stuff like that. If I'm a potential resident, I want a healthy economy, good housing choices, schools, tax rates, all that stuff.

    I can think of lots of cities that are good places to live, but not visit, and vice versa.

    Are you looking for just one or the other, or both, comparing the overall view of the city from residents, businesses, and visitors?

    Just trying to establish the guidelines.
    JOE ILIFF
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Debt is normal . . . Be weird!
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    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard, solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think."
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian
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    No offense to KC forumers, but this is a no-brainer. St. Louis all the way! Metro STL has a million more people! It's older, bolder, more seasoned, more urban, more densely populated, more cosmopolitan, more established, more diverse, more of everything. I may be slightly biased, but I'm speaking the truth!































    Ahhhh, the Gateway City!
    ST. LOUIS: The City is Back. Back the City.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Ahhhhh! Stop with all the pics! We get it already! No offense, but we know you love St. Louis. I can unerstand your enthusiasm, but one or two pics will do the job. I just have a slow connection, that's all.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian
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    Sorry man, ever since I got DSL I've become less sensitive of those who have dial-ups. My bad.
    ST. LOUIS: The City is Back. Back the City.

  11. #11
    Member KCgridlock's avatar
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    Jive, you gota get some new pics!

    I'll post a couple of pics do defend KC a little.




    I am impressed by the replys on this forum. It is VERY rare for someone from to east or west coast to even know that kc is in MO let alone some of the details about it posted here.

    KC over StL anyday. A million more people? Yea and they are all in the suburbs.

  12. #12
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Admistrator's note re: photos

    Photos are a Good Thing (tm). This is a board about "cities and places," after all. Posting (or, rather, cross-linking) pictures is common on other urbanism-related bulletin boards.

    A single post can contain up to 20 cross-linked images. If you're using a slow connection, you can set the maximum amount of posts displayed on a thread page in your user control panel. You can also turn off the display of cross-linked images, substituting links to the image.

    Post 'em if you got 'em.

    Admistrator's note re: city vs city

    I won't take the credit for this. Other boards have "city versus city" debates. However, they usually don't involve polling.

    As far as how to vote ... well, consider that you're going to be living there, and that you have the financial means to do so at the same standard of living at which you are now living.

    An "urban smackdown" contest, like the "sexiest woman in the world" playoffs held on some Web site not too long ago, would be a great idea!
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  13. #13
    Cyburbian
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    KCgridlock, "they're all in the suburbs" is a false statement. At any given moment there are hundreds of thousands more people in the City of St. Louis than actually live there. A 2.6 million metro depends heavily on its central city.

    And this is a different forum that hasn't seen these pics yet.
    ST. LOUIS: The City is Back. Back the City.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    KC is home to my clan (not KLAN)

    I'm sure St. Louis is very nice but I have to go with KC based simply on its superior Bar-B-Que.

    KC is not Bland. If you want excitement drive down The Paseo or park on 5th and Qunidaro with El Guapo and his camo truck.

    I also reserve the right to post 6 megs of photos of delicious KC Ribs.

  15. #15
    Jive...a million more? Wow...1.8 vs. 2.5 is a million?

    KC all the way.....cleaner, Plaza, Crown center, Union Station isn't a mall....

  16. #16
    Cyburbian
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    My bad, I rounded up. The difference is about 830,000 people, or in other words, roughly the size of metropolitan Tuscon. That's still a major difference.

    STL: 2,603,607

    KC: 1,776,062

    It would be nice to hear reasons why one city is better than the other instead of just casting votes. Anyone?
    ST. LOUIS: The City is Back. Back the City.

  17. #17
    All in the suburbs.....we both know the benefits of an urban population.....suburbs are everywhere and nothing to brag about...you do have 800,000 extra stlouisguy25's

    I like St Louis...it's a fun city....I just like KC better.....reasons I posted and many more.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian
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    KCPowercat, I'm sure you know the influence a 2.6 million metro has upon the central city. I wish more people lived in the city, but still, we have 830,000 more people depending upon St. Louis City than depending upon Kansas City, not to mention our thriving tourism industry, which I'm sure also beats KC's. Nonetheless, despite the fact that KC has more people living within its central city, STL City continues to maintain a higher population density and of course our housing stock and building density is on another level entirely than KC.

    KC's a fine city, I actually like it a lot. To me it's just a notch or two below the Lou.
    ST. LOUIS: The City is Back. Back the City.

  19. #19
    actually I was just screwing with you...of course having suburbites still has an impact on the central city.

    I don't see why everything has to be a notch or 2 below anything else...I see cities as fairly even...you've got about 4 groups of cities, anything from over Million to under about 4 million is about the same...maybe more Best Buys but that's about it...same quality and type of attractions.

    Of course there are some things that draw people to one city or another but mostly they are pretty similar.

    Having said that, KC wins

  20. #20
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Suggestion for Denver 2003

    Caged Texas-Style City v. City Grudge Matches to the Death!

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    I have to go with STL simply because they have a hockey team. I can't be without my hockey. Sorry KC

  22. #22
          Downtown's avatar
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    Perhaps it was the hundreds upon hundreds of slides of STL that we were shown by Dr. Faris in grad school, but STL got my vote. Plus, my favorite bird is the cardinal (are they even in St. L anymore?)

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Hey wait a minute....

    STL got Rolen and JD Drew. I'm changing my vote to KC

  24. #24

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    You guys are way too tame.

    Has anyone ever visited the skyscraperpage forum? THEIR debates involve rpomises of "slapping you upside the head" for dissing various cities. The LA versus New Jersey debate was particularly entertaining.

  25. #25
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Kelly?

    ST Louie? How could you? That does it! I'm having a talk with your dad! See you Thanksgiving!

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