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Thread: Obesity comparison

  1. #1
    Cyburbian circusoflife's avatar
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    Obesity comparison

    Searched through the threads and found discussions on obesity and sprawl and city living...here's an international bent

    ....all wealthy countries who can afford to eat as much as they want...

    Prevalence of obesity (BMI > 30):

    men/women
    US - 20.0 / 25 (1994 data age 20-74)
    UK - 17 / 22 (1998 16-64)
    W. Germany - 19.4 / 21 (1998 25-69)
    Netherlands - 8.5 / 9.6 (1997 20-59)

    ...all of these countries definitely ain't get thinner...but who has gotten larger the least?...you got it...the Netherlands. Bicycle friendly land extraordinaire.

    Have a copy of the source of the data - report from Nature magazine if anyone wants it. Note the dates.

    Separate reports show:

    Denmark recent 2001 data recently show
    10-13% are obese - BMI > 30.

    Denmark is cycle friendly too..not as much as Netherlands though.
    --

    UK and Germany are major car dependent like US so not surprising that there have been rapid increases in obesity like in the US. Major investments by German government in making cities more walkable/bicyclable though. Especially in the Northern parts.


    Recent data on US from CDC


    "During the past 20 years, obesity among adults has risen significantly in the United States. The latest data from the National Center for Health Statistics show that 30 percent of U.S. adults 20 years of age and older - over 60 million people - are obese.

    This increase is not limited to adults. The percentage of young people who are overweight has more than tripled since 1980. Among children and teens aged 6-19 years, 16 percent (over 9 million young people) are considered overweight."

    http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/trend/maps/


    ...also related to diabetes increase, et al...
    - Beware more of the man in the fancy cloak, than the one in tattered clothing -

  2. #2
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    My Current BMI 22.8. Right in the smack dab middle of normal according to the CDC
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
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    Moderator note:
    Moved to the FAC. There isn't enough substance here for it to be in the MNSP forum.
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  4. #4
    Cyburbian circusoflife's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planderella
    Moderator note:
    Moved to the FAC. There isn't enough substance here for it to be in the MNSP forum.
    I disagree STRONGLY.

    That was only the opening message....

    I hope part of the reason isn't because there is a concern about people getting offended by such a thing....just trying to look in the mirror and see things for what they are.

    At the very least move it to the Cities and Places forum.
    - Beware more of the man in the fancy cloak, than the one in tattered clothing -

  5. #5
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by circusoflife
    Searched through the threads and found discussions on obesity and sprawl and

    ...all of these countries definitely ain't get thinner...but who has gotten larger the least?...you got it...the Netherlands. Bicycle friendly land extraordinaire.

    Also legal drugs..... coincidence? I think not
    “As soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fall”
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  6. #6
    Mabye there should be a post your BMI thread. Mine is 25. Mostly because I try to keep my weight at exactly at 70kg because that is the standard bodyweight used in toxicology.

    I am a bit suspicious about the link between legallized drugs and low obesity rates given the number of Hagan Daz and other outlets near some of the coffee shops in Amsterdam.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Gotta Speakup
    Mabye there should be a post your BMI thread.
    I predict a ghost town for that one. I, for one, would probably not wish to post my higher than normal BMI..

    ZMan watching a tumbleweed roll by....
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  8. #8
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    22.4 for me

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN
    I predict a ghost town for that one. I, for one, would probably not wish to post my higher than normal BMI..

    ZMan watching a tumbleweed roll by....
    A gentleman....does not post his BMI

  10. #10
    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    A gentleman....does not post his BMI

    As I have posted in other cyburbia fora....
    They have great educational value.

    As a guy who aspires to gentleman-hood someday, I will refrain from sharing my BMI in the future.

    GS

  11. #11
    Cyburbian circusoflife's avatar
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    I'm disappointed there is no response yet to my reply on why this was moved.

    I'd rather not see this devolve into a post your BMI.

    So many problems - many discussed in one form or another on Cyburbia - I believe are caused due to lack of wholistic thinking and seeing how things relate to one another. Best exemplified by blindly zoning for ONE use or another without understanding the ripple effects.

    Obesity is a serious city/country planning issue that does not deserve to be in the FAC.
    - Beware more of the man in the fancy cloak, than the one in tattered clothing -

  12. #12
    Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator NHPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by circusoflife
    I'm disappointed there is no response yet to my reply on why this was moved.
    Moderator note:
    I'm not the mod that moved it, but I assume the reason for the move was the understanding that (after the first reply) the thread looked like it was going to turn into a "post your BMI" thread.

    Seeing that that is exactly what has happened, I think it is likely going to stay in the FAC.
    "Growth is inevitable and desirable, but destruction of community character is not. The question is not whether your part of the world is going to change. The question is how." -- Edward T. McMahon, The Conservation Fund

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Hceux's avatar
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    Going back to the original topic, I wonder if the design of suburbs is a factor in the greater percentage of the American/Canadian population being obese, according to the BMI index (which isn't always applicable to all people especially for those who have more muscle density than the average!), compare to the suburbs in Europe.

    What I am getting at is that I've recently noticed that the suburbs are really a wasteland of homes without any convenience stores, grocery stores, banks, postal office branches, etc. that would incite people the option of walking to these services. I currently live in a cheap apartment in an old downtown neighbourhood with a great proximity to all of these services plus more and I walk way more than I ever use the bus or the car.

    What do you think?

  14. #14
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker
    My Current BMI 22.8. Right in the smack dab middle of normal according to the CDC
    Perhaps I'll offer some constructive discussion rather than simply posting my BMI.

    It's not just the automobile. I believe there are some big differences in diet between the low BMI and high BMI nations.

    Please verify this assumption: Even though Brits and Germans have changed their environments to accomodate the car, they havn't done it to an extent that Americans have. Diet has to be an important contributer to explain the higher BMIs.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Gotta Speakup
    I am a bit suspicious about the link between legallized drugs and low obesity rates given the number of Hagan Daz and other outlets near some of the coffee shops in Amsterdam.
    I thought he was implying that it is bicycle-friendly because people are too stoned to drive cars.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker
    ... I believe there are some big differences in diet between the low BMI and high BMI nations.

    Please verify this assumption: Even though Brits and Germans have changed their environments to accomodate the car, they havn't done it to an extent that Americans have. Diet has to be an important contributer to explain the higher BMIs.
    I'll add to this that when you factor the riduculous commutes people make, exacerbated by the inneffieciency of rush hour - after 9 hours at work, people find it hard to resist the convenience of prepackaged processed crap from the supermarket, or fast food. All the time people waste driving in the suburbs, can more healthfully be used to walk around the city to buy fresh ingredients from various purveyors, with plenty of time left over to process them into quality meals.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  17. #17
    Member Missy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by circusoflife
    Searched through the threads and found discussions on obesity and sprawl and city living...here's an international bent

    ....all wealthy countries who can afford to eat as much as they want...

    Prevalence of obesity (BMI > 30):

    men/women
    US - 20.0 / 25 (1994 data age 20-74)
    UK - 17 / 22 (1998 16-64)
    W. Germany - 19.4 / 21 (1998 25-69)
    Netherlands - 8.5 / 9.6 (1997 20-59)

    ...all of these countries definitely ain't get thinner...but who has gotten larger the least?...you got it...the Netherlands. Bicycle friendly land extraordinaire.

    Have a copy of the source of the data - report from Nature magazine if anyone wants it. Note the dates.

    Separate reports show:

    Denmark recent 2001 data recently show
    10-13% are obese - BMI > 30.

    Denmark is cycle friendly too..not as much as Netherlands though.
    --

    UK and Germany are major car dependent like US so not surprising that there have been rapid increases in obesity like in the US. Major investments by German government in making cities more walkable/bicyclable though. Especially in the Northern parts.


    Recent data on US from CDC


    "During the past 20 years, obesity among adults has risen significantly in the United States. The latest data from the National Center for Health Statistics show that 30 percent of U.S. adults 20 years of age and older - over 60 million people - are obese.

    This increase is not limited to adults. The percentage of young people who are overweight has more than tripled since 1980. Among children and teens aged 6-19 years, 16 percent (over 9 million young people) are considered overweight."

    http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/trend/maps/


    ...also related to diabetes increase, et al...
    Interesting thread. The proliferatin of cars is without a doubt a big factor BUT it's only part of the eequation, obviously. What would be interesting, iw a parallel table of the prices of different kinds of food in all of these countries and their eating habits. When I first visited the States, it was like, oh I don't know, being a kid in a candy store Eating out was SO cheap, the portions so HUGE, I coudn't beleive it. And man, those buffets pay once and eat as much as you like. A totally different eating out experience, IMO, than you'd get in a place like France. There, the empahisis is really not on shovelling it down, rather looking at how pretty it is, talking, eating slowly - nibbling, in fact.

    And for the children, well, in my opinion, and this is probably a bit of a contraversial thing to say, the poor diet they have nowadsays can in some part be explained by the fact that we now have one or two generations of working mothers at home, so Mummy doesn't stay home and cook a nutritious meal from scratch like they used to - she probably doesn't even know how to cook.

    I have just realised how patronising I sound, and I'm in two minds about hitting the submit button........

  18. #18
    Cyburbian circusoflife's avatar
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    I knew I would find this sooner or later...

    Nearly complete country list with obesity percentages -

    http://www.iotf.org/media/globalprev.htm


    Even a few years makes a big difference...in other words, the % are getting bigger. Most of the data is 4-5 years old, in some cases a bit more.

    Now, I bet if we took the time to separate which countries are car dependent vs not...we would find that the car dependent nations are much fatter, poor countries notwithstanding. Again, not the only factor...but a major one. It ain't just the food...

    Let's start by -

    Countries where around or nearly 30% or more of FEMALES are obese:


    Albania, Bahrain, Cook Islands, Egypt, French Polynesia, Greece, Jamaica, Jordan (This surprises me), Kuwait (29.9), Lebanon, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mexico (29),Nauru (78.6!!), Niue (46!), Palestine, Panama, Paraguay, Qatar, Samoa, Saudi Arabia (44!) (No wonder they're importing young Russian girls!), Seychelles (28.2) , South Africa (27.9), Tonga (70!), Turkey (29.4), UAE, USA, Uzbekistan


    A lot of these are island nations. Then there are the wealthy countries in Arabia. Those are all very car dependent - I've been to UAE and Qatar, I'll vouch first hand for that. I'd imagine Bahrain and Kuwait are the same. Mexico is definitely car happy. Paraguay too (Been there) - even though it is a poor country.


    For the MEN - around or nearly 30% obese:

    Argentina (28.4), Cook Island, Croatia, French Polynesia, Greece (27.5), Jordan, Kuwait (27.5), Lebanon, Nauru (80!), Panama (28),Qatar, Samoa, Tonga, US (27.7)

    I've only been to one island nation - Palau, not listed. It is unexpectedly heavily car reliant for such a small nation. No surprise if you look at who administered it prior - America. As opposed to a country like Curacao (From pictures and what I've read) in the Caribbean - administered by the Dutch. (Neither of these are listed)

    French Polynesia surprises me. I suspect island nations also have other characteristics contributing to obesity.

    keep in mind this is OBESE. Not merely overweight (BMI >25). Is BMI ALWAYS indicative of unhealthiness, no. But, it is a pretty damn good guide. And if one is greater than 30 - near certainty me thinks.

    Also of note...these indicate ADULT populations mostly. No kids to skew the data lower. Though at the current pace in some places...that may not matter much.

    Combined male and female I think - you can just look at these pretty graphs (little bit harder to read)

    http://www.iotf.org/database/images/GlobalTop30web.gif

    Europe specific: (look who's at the low end!)

    http://www.iotf.org/database/images/...inedadults.jpg




    As for the list which have low obesity...too lazy to do that now. Maybe in a few days....

    Quote Originally posted by Missy
    Interesting thread. The proliferatin of cars is without a doubt a big factor BUT it's only part of the eequation, obviously. What would be interesting, iw a parallel table of the prices of different kinds of food in all of these countries and their eating habits. When I first visited the States, it was like, oh I don't know, being a kid in a candy store Eating out was SO cheap, the portions so HUGE, I coudn't beleive it. And man, those buffets pay once and eat as much as you like. A totally different eating out experience, IMO, than you'd get in a place like France. There, the empahisis is really not on shovelling it down, rather looking at how pretty it is, talking, eating slowly - nibbling, in fact.
    I have calorie consumption data too. Not electronic, YET. In a book I have - the Penguin Atlas of Food it shows how many calories, and what % is from animals.
    Though I've seen 2 different data sets and they conflict a little bit.

    Would be good to cross reference all this.

    But FYI - Denmark and Netherlands consume nearly as many calories as the US, yet the obesity is 1/3 the rate.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 27 Jul 2005 at 5:57 AM.
    - Beware more of the man in the fancy cloak, than the one in tattered clothing -

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