Cities/metros without Starbucks

[BKM]

El Feo: I bet your mother's version of spaghetti was something like mine's:

Pasta cooked until soft (and broken into short lengths to avoid the "wrapping" issue!)

Tomato juice (from a can)

Hamburger pan-fried with a little onion

Cheddar or "Longhorn Colby" cheese from County Line Cheese Company (RIP-bought out by another damn conglomerate and ruined) A great American style cheese maker-to this day I still can literally not stomach "cheese product" like Kraft Singles or Velveeta.

Sugar to taste.

All melted together into a gooey mess!

[GeekyBoy]

re: Success of Starbucks

Not sure how true this view is - but to me, Starbucks is more of a lifestyle chain (read that, Martha) than a typical cafe. The rationale behind such is that one targets the neophyte, expereince conscious middle class with an cafe identity taken from a generic coffee house in an urban core, soften and idealize the feel with standardized decor, and 'brand' it an urbane, sophiscated city cafe (ironically, with a drive through).

So yes, there is a bit of snob in it all - the faux artist in the patron, perhaps?

GB

[El Feo]

You shouldn't oughta done that, BKM...

Hamburger pan-fried with a little bit of onion was the foundation of many different meals...all full of gooey goodness...

[Dan]

One thing that the non-Starbucks cities in the United States have in common ... they're not seen as "bohemian" or "trendy" in the least. There's little or no "buzz" in those areas.

Consider New Mexico, where Santa Fe has five, but Las Cruces has zero. Santa Fe = arts, culture, black turtleneck shirts, and so on. Buzz. Las Cruces = college students, engineers, middle-class families, retirees and Hispanics. No buzz.

Let's take Urban Outfitters, for instance. Think they'll locate in a city without a "buzz," despite a ready market or population? Nope. UO is in Providence, Austin, Minneapolis and Portland ... not in Buffalo, Rochester, Cleveland or Oklahoma City. Rochester just ain't cool enough.

Maybe this is a stretch, but I think the lack of Starbucks in places like Little Rock and Youngstown can be attributed to sheer snobbery. Starbucks goes to the places where there's a "buzz," and thus a ready market. As they expand, they'll reach out into the cities that aren't as trendy ... Yeah, Buffalo has plenty of coffee drinkers, but they're not as hip as those in Denver, so money spent there will return less bang for the buck. Starcucks still has to grow, through, because it's what stockholders expect. Eventually, they might trickle down to the places that seem to elicit collective yawns among the public ... the Youngstowns and Harrisburgs.

[BKM]

I think GeekyBoy and Dan have captured the Starbucks effect very well.

Sadly, by Geeky Boy's theorem, I am probably one of Starbucks' target customers. Heck, I buy furniture at Scandinavian Designs, read Dwell, etc. etc. Woe is me.

My only defense is I recognize it. And, my blue collar roots don't allow me to take any of it too seriously. And, I still prefer the independents.

[Mastiff]

Originally posted by Dan
Pine Bluff, Arkansas - 0

Yoiks... Hardly a metro. More of a slum of Little Rock.

The joke goes, "There are no pines... that's the bluff."

[GeekyBoy]

Vaca:

"Sadly, by Geeky Boy's theorem, I am probably one of Starbucks' target customers. Heck, I buy furniture at Scandinavian Designs, read Dwell, etc. etc. Woe is me.

My only defense is I recognize it. And, my blue collar roots don't allow me to take any of it too seriously. And, I still prefer the independents"

LOL! There is nothing wrong with liking Starbucks per se - if the motive behind is a genuine preference for their coffee (not my thing - but everyone has different tastes) instead of, from personal observation, the attitude of some patrons that by somehow sucking up Starbucks latte, they have graduated into the ranks of sophiscated, urbane drinker.

I bet you that the whole "Grande, Venti, etc" thing has something to do with that snobbery. Just think about how jargonish when one rattles off "Grande Mocha, no whip for here" at 166 wpm.

PS: Confession #2

I had done the above when I was a bit younger than I am now...how childish.

GB

[BKM]

Yeah. When I do go to Starbucks (rarely, but the local one is closed on Sundays) I always feel a little embarrassed using their silly terminology. I would rather just say "large", but they force use into the jargon when they take your order.

[Bucky alum]

I think the reason Starbucks, McD, BK, Best Buy, insert name brand here, is our nomadic culture. I have moved 4 times in the last 4 years, each time to a different city. I enjoy the local cuisine (in NJ pizza) and I don't go to a Pizza Hut or Papa Johns. But I do go to Home Depot, instead of the local hardware store even though I now know where one is. When I moved here, I needed to get some supplies so i looked up Home Depot instead of trying to find another local dealer. It was just too easy. Same with Best buy, across the street from each other there is a PC Richard, Best Buy, and a Wiz. i go to the Best Buy, all the prices are about the same but i choose the national chain I have dealt with before, and if I move again I may get better service. I go to Chipotle because I haven't found a good burrito in my area. It's safe and conformting and I know exactly what I am getting. BTW, the strangest thing out here is the Dunkin Donuts. They are everywhere as bad as Starbucks.

http://www.theonion.com/onion3709/st...phase_two.html

Do i like the mom and pop shops, yes but it must have a reason like its cheaper, closer or better.

[Nemesis]

I believe Baltimore has only one. It is located in the Inner harbor. I would rather have a nice sweet Dunkin Doughnuts large with a french Cruller. Yum. We are lacking in quality coffee retailers.

[Habanero]

Well, I love Starbucks. I'll say it, I drink it every morning.. I've even got most of their large mugs, travel mugs, and a Barista coffee maker.. I love their coffee, it's a darker roast than any other out there I've tried. (that's why it tastes burnt to some, they've got a patent on their roasting and they roast their beans longer than others)

So does Temple, TX now have a "buzz"? I don't think so, it's just that Starbucks saw an oppourtunity and went for it off of I35, it's a top seller for them now. I don't think they are snobs.. it's just that they're looking to make a profit and see where the market is.. I wish I'd have come up with the idea!

[Super Amputee Cat]

Originally posted by Dan
Can you think of any? Why wouldn't Starbucks have a presence in these places, when in some parts of the country they're literally across the street from each other?

Largest I could find in the US with no "independent" Starbucks - El Paso, Texas

Largest I could find in the US with no Starbucks, period - Harrisburg, Pennsylvania

Las Cruces, New Mexico - 0
Fargo, North Dakota - 0 (one in a Super Target)
Amarillo, Texas - 0 (one in a supermarket)
Lubbock, Texas - 0 (one in a supermarket)
Pine Bluff, Arkansas - 0
Yuma, Arizona - 0 (one in a supermarket)
Ocala, Florida - 0
Jackson, Mississippi - 0 (one in a supermarket)
Beaumont, Texas - 0 (one in a supermarket)
Williamsport, Pennsylvania - 0
Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania - 0
Reading, Pennsylvania - 0
Altoona, Pennsylvania - 0
Danville, Virginia - 0
Wichita Falls, Texas - 0
Topeka, Kansas - 0
St. Joseph, Missouri - 0
Utica, New York - 0

Actually, Toledo, Ohio may be the largest city w/o a Starsux. The city's population is 320,000, and we don't have much in the way of cultural heritage, but at least we don't have a Starsux.

[BKM]

Hey Cat: I'm originally from Fort Wayne, Indiana. I doubt we have a Starbucks

We used to drive to Toledo all the time to visit the zoo when I was a kid (a LONG time ago).

I always liked the parks, Toledo Art Museum, the river, the University area, etc. Has downtown come back any? Last time I was there, Portside was pretty much dead.

Sadly, I may have to be back in Fort Wayne within the week. My Mom's second husband isn't doing very well.

[Super Amputee Cat]

Originally posted by BKM
Hey Cat: I'm originally from Fort Wayne, Indiana. I doubt we have a Starbucks

We used to drive to Toledo all the time to visit the zoo when I was a kid (a LONG time ago).

I always liked the parks, Toledo Art Museum, the river, the University area, etc. Has downtown come back any? Last time I was there, Portside was pretty much dead.

Sadly, I may have to be back in Fort Wayne within the week. My Mom's second husband isn't doing very well.

In terms of historic fabric, downtown is worse than ever. They demolished about 12 historic buildings for a new ballpark that the voters didn't want but they went ahead and built anyway. Now I have to support it because if it goes under, we will all pay dearly (the taxpayers). Luckily 5/3 Bank paid about $1 Million for the naming rights. The name sucks but at least that will be one million that we won't have to cough up.

Portside went belly-up long ago. It's now COSI. Portside was one of the dumbest development projects ever conceived in a city of this size.

Yeah, it sucks to be here but at least we don't have a Starbucks....yet.

[BKM]

Too bad about the stadium and the destroyed downtown fabric. Probably plenty of parking lots, too.

I am a totally hostile atheists in the religion of professional sports, so I ain't too sypathetic to stadium boosters.

Vacaville' AAA baseball team owner just lost all of his insurance, so the local farm club is now defunct (literally in the middle of the game).

COSI sounds better than a fake nautical theme mall selling teddie bears.

Downtown Fort Wayne remains somewhat moribund, as well. Maybe a little healthier-the new park at the three rivers is nice.

I have to keep telling myself

"It is good for local banks and companies to disappear into the mass of national chains" After all, the CEOs get bigger bonuses, don't they?"

Oh well, I can thank Fort Wayne for steering me to the planning field-Coliseum Blvd is so ugly I wanted to find some profession that deals with those kinds of issues.

[SouthSideSlayer]

Originally posted by Nemesis
I believe Baltimore has only one. It is located in the Inner harbor. I would rather have a nice sweet Dunkin Doughnuts large with a french Cruller. Yum. We are lacking in quality coffee retailers.

Actually, there's more. From top to bottom:




Columbia Mall
Harborplace, Baltimore
Mount Washington Mill, Baltimore
York Road, Baltimore
White Marsh Mall, Baltimore
Woodholme, Baltimore











Every starbucks is listed (at least in the US) Check out the site:

www.starbuckseverywhere.net

[smarty]

Whoa......this thread unravelled quicker than a raver on Flintstones chewables.

Ok, so I too recall the days of Portside. I remember drinking Michelob Dark during the laser shows in stolen Pepsi cups because you could hide the bottles but have the beer out in the open. I remember so desperately Toledo trying to save it's riverfront, I was back there (grew up in MI, but was born at St Joe's in Toledo, parents born/raised in Toledo, still love to visit Packo's for a dog and chili sundae) and it was just such a depressing site.

As far as Tarbucks is concerned, living just south of the Canadian border in the PacNorWest, we have 8 $tarbucks in a town with 70,000 people. Peets has no presence up here, but they're owned the The Green Green Goblin now anyway, but agreed the coffee is better. Tully's follow Starbucks like a vulture does a hyena, so what for them. My best advice, support the locals, buy certified beans, pony up for a good machine and burr grinder and make your own. I do, and love it. Nothing like pouring a freshly ground shot of spro with perfect crema before you hop in the shower, or into your car (or bike for work).

It's all in the grind.

[Downtown]

DD wins everytime. As for Starbucks, I only ever drank it when my best friend's husband worked there part time and I could stop by when I was out on inspection and get free Caramel Macciatos, or Chai Lattes. Josh (the bf's husband) would regale us with stories of how people would come in and order: "a grande half caf skinny double shot chino with whip" sigh. But I love the Starbucks accessories (which for my birthday and christmas that year I received lots!).

[Greenescapist]

You know, when I was in college, I used to rail against Starbucks and all chain restaurants and shops of its kind, but now once I went there a few times, I realized they have damn good coffee. For anyone who likes strong, bitter coffee, you can't beat Starbucks. And, yes, I don't like how things are getting homogenized around the country, but there are a few good things about Starbucks.

Has anyone noticed how there are almost zero places where strangers can actually interact in your typical suburbs? I was at a Starbucks (one that I usually don't go to) last night drinking tea and reading a book and I looked around and there were all these people drinking lattes and playing chess and other board games. And it creates a good, relaxing environment for people to read and study - which we can't deny has immeasureable beneftis. It seems to me that there are precious few places around today where things like this happen.

So, I don't want to say we should open Starbucks everywhere, but I don't think they are all bad. Whenever I'm in an area that has a good, local coffeehouse, I try to go there, but when I'm stuck out in the Boston suburbs and want a good place to read and drink tea after lunch, Starbucks can't be beat.

[El Feo]

Originally posted by Greenescapist
So, I don't want to say we should open Starbucks everywhere, but I don't think they are all bad. Whenever I'm in an area that has a good, local coffeehouse, I try to go there, but when I'm stuck out in the Boston suburbs and want a good place to read and drink tea after lunch, Starbucks can't be beat.

Greenescapist, I disagree - it's fairly easy to find local coffeehouses, etc., in the Boston suburbs. Of course, my knowledge of local gathering/eating/coffee places outside Boston is limited to my own experience, but I travel outside the city a fair amount with my job. Let me know next time you're heading out and I'll try to hook you up!

[Planderella]

Originally posted by Greenescapist
You know, when I was in college, I used to rail against Starbucks and all chain restaurants and shops of its kind, but now once I went there a few times, I realized they have damn good coffee. For anyone who likes strong, bitter coffee, you can't beat Starbucks.

Try Community Coffee - Chicory Blend - if you want strong coffee. As long as there is superior coffee made right here in Louisiana, I'll never go out of my way to drink Starsucks. If I had no other choice, then that would be the time when I quit coffee cold turkey.

[ken48170]

Toledo has entered modern times by getting an independent Starbucks to move into the Seagate Center. Its very hard to find, and you have to actually enter the SC, but still, good coffee

[Dan]

An old thread, I know, but I was thinking abut it when I was down in Elmira yesterday. There's not a single Starbucks in Chemung County, population 88,840 . None in nearby Corning, either.

[Masswich]

But Corning has a great glass museum, comparable to the one in Venice, so it all works out, no?

[JNA]

The closest Starbucks to Cairo, IL are either in Cape Girardeau, MO or Paducah, KY or Marion, IL