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Thread: Commercial/retail questions

  1. #1
    Cyburbian prana's avatar
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    Commercial/retail questions

    HELP!! I think I read a similar thread but can't find it right now. So I will ask again.

    Does anyone have any numbers on how many residences it takes to support specific commercial/retail centers?
    OR
    Does anyone have any numbers on the ratio of "major anchor" tenant space versus smaller inline shops? Major anchor in this particular case could be something along the lines of a: Border's Book; Bed, Bath & Beyond; REI; or similar 30-40,000 sq.ft. tenant.
    AND
    Any formula on number of pads that will be supported by either population or anchor ratio?

    Site specifics for you to ponder as well:
    38 acres
    fairly major highway frontage will subsidize small immediate residential population
    I have been told to shoot for 300,000 sq.ft. of space with 3 cars per 1,000 sq.ft. (900+/- parking spaces) Damn- that's a lot of freaking parking!

    Zman- this is out of Loveland, but close, so if you have any numbers that the City looks for or have projected, I would appreciate it!

    Thanks
    Jeff

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    In an older LUP I have (circa 1996), the numbers listed are 1,500 to 3,500 population or 600 to 1,500 dwelling units for a neighborhood center (250,000 sf); 10,000 to 20,000 pop. or 2,000 to 7,000 d.u. for a community center (500,000 sf); and 80,000 to 150,000 pop. for a regional center (1,500,000 sf).

    Sorry, but I don't have any point of reference for this data. Like I said it might be dated.
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  3. #3
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planit
    In an older LUP I have (circa 1996), the numbers listed are 1,500 to 3,500 population or 600 to 1,500 dwelling units for a neighborhood center (250,000 sf); 10,000 to 20,000 pop. or 2,000 to 7,000 d.u. for a community center (500,000 sf); and 80,000 to 150,000 pop. for a regional center (1,500,000 sf).

    Sorry, but I don't have any point of reference for this data. Like I said it might be dated.
    I would say those are very aggressive numbers. The developer should have a market study which projects demand. Building without one, or looking for speculative zoning of commercial land, is not good practice. Of course, you also need to consider competition.
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  4. #4
    Cyburbian PlanBoston's avatar
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    You need to look at the traffic counts and household income for the area. These are the stats that the major national retailers use to determine where to locate new stores. Basically they want to know how many people are driving by the site and how much $$ these people have to spend.

    Look at recent retail developments in your area that have the types of anchor stores you hope to attract. The developers typically put these statistics on their web sites in order to market their developments. You will then have a basis for comparison.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian prana's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cardinal
    The developer should have a market study which projects demand.
    I completely agree with this point. So, that leads to a question that came up between a colleague and I when on a site walk...

    As a private planning/engineering firm, where do our ethical liabilities stop? In other words, if a client comes to us with 38 acres that he wants to be a retail "town center" type development, do we just design it to the best of our abilities or should we really be questioning whether they, as developers, have done all of their homework? And since my department head deals with the vast majority of clients, where does my questioning of the direction given to me come into play? I think I'm hijacking my own thread!

    I guess a lot of this goes back to my very first post about landscape architects vs. land planners in that I don't think my firm has really ever put any thought into what would be the best use of a particular piece of land. Over the last 30+ years, I believe clients have come to us and said something similar to, "I have 100 acres and need the most possible .5 acre lots." Or "We have 25 acres and a grocery store is interested in being an anchor, design it." And after driving around the area and looking at former projects, I believe most of my firm's projects have been designed fairly blind and very blah!

  6. #6
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Off-topic:
    The blind and blah design problems are something that your firm can probably affect, but I'm not sure it's really your responsibility to ask the client(s) whether it should even be done or not (feasiblity).

    Generally, it is the local communities responsibilty to deal with the developer about getting development that "fits" or meets greater planning goals. Not to absolve the designers, but the designers only have as much pull as the client grants. You are a for-profit company, I presume, so keeping clients happy (within reason) is an important goal.

    anyways, just becasue you design it and get paid for the work, doesn't necessasrily mean it will actually get built.

    Hope this helps. BTW, I'm a public sector planner.
    Last edited by mendelman; 15 Jun 2005 at 6:46 PM.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

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  7. #7
    Cyburbian donk's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by prana
    HELP!! I think I read a similar thread but can't find it right now. So I will ask again
    Here is the link to a recent thread on a similar topic.

    http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17863
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

  8. #8
    Cyburbian
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    Prana

    I'd be very careful about questioning the motives of your client. Sure you can suggest things but deference is probably important if you want to keep clients.

    Oh and I think you are way low on the parking. 3 per 1000 is not enough for retail.

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