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Thread: Not-so-great idea: drilling in the lakes

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Not-so-great idea: drilling in the lakes

    Editorial headline from the Indianapolis Star:
    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...506250343/1002

    Highlights:
    Our position is: The Great Lakes are no place to drill for gas and oil.

    ....why a congressional ban on drilling for natural gas in the five Great Lakes or along the shoreline ought to be extended beyond its 2007 expiration date.

    Proponents of drilling argue that hundreds of gas-producing wells on the Canadian side of lakes have operated without a major catastrophe. But there have been numerous smaller gas and oil spills reported from Canada's operations. The full extent of pollution from Canadian drilling isn't known.

    An analysis of proposed drilling in Michigan concluded that wells would produce enough energy to power the country for only about two hours a year, generating roughly $2 billion in revenue -- a fraction of the $11.5 billion spent by tourists who vacation at Lake Michigan.

    The potential long-term risks simply don't outweigh any fleeting rewards.
    I did not know that there was drilling on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes.
    I agree that this is a really bad idea.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  2. #2
    Cyburbian ijustkrushalot's avatar
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    not sure how much oil there is to be drilled in the lakes... but i don't see what the big deal is... do you have any idea how much stuff is transported across those lakes every day as it is?

    I am sure there would be people that would have a stroke if they found out what is in some of those tankers... I can't see how oil drilling would be that big of a negative.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    I'd be more worried about the gargantuan amounts of sewage dumped into the lakes each day than the possibility of some oil leaking.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Big Red's avatar
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    abrowne: You don't need to stop the Canadians from drilling...





    That's pretty funny. A group just recently installed a trash-o-meter in my town of Traverse City, much like the national debt clock, that digitally indicates the insane tonnage of garbage being imported from Canada to our Michigan land fills everyday.

    What's so ironic to me is that, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Canada like the second largest country, in terms of land mass, in THE WORLD?
    Seems like they could find an out of the way place for their trash instead of shipping it to a central location from which we can poison the worlds largest reserve of fresh water...
    Maybe the most any of us can expect of ourselves isn't perfection but progress.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Reminds me of something that happened years ago in Louisiana. An oil company was drilling an exploratory well in a lake. The drill punctured the ceiling of a salt dome and the entire lake drained into the cavern. As you might expect, there was a big lawsuit about that one.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Off-topic:
    Quote Originally posted by Big Red
    Seems like they could find an out of the way place for their trash instead of shipping it to a central location from which we can poison the worlds largest reserve of fresh water...
    The way I understand this issue, and I don't have a source or link, is that Canada, or at least Ontario, has certain annual recycling quotas to meet, with net distributions to local landfills required to be reduced each year. Since Michigan is the closest neighbor with some of the most lax landfill regulations, they export their garbage in order to limit deliveries to their landfills.

    Nerudite?

  7. #7
    maudit anglais
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    Quote Originally posted by Wanigas?
    Off-topic:


    The way I understand this issue, and I don't have a source or link, is that Canada, or at least Ontario, has certain annual recycling quotas to meet, with net distributions to local landfills required to be reduced each year. Since Michigan is the closest neighbor with some of the most lax landfill regulations, they export their garbage in order to limit deliveries to their landfills.

    Nerudite?
    I'm not Nerudite, but here's what I know.

    I don't think there are any annual recycling "quotas" set by the Province, but here in Toronto (the primary source of Michigan-bound garbage I think), we have set an aggressive target for waste diversion (something like 100% over the next ten years). Basically, about 10 years ago when Toronto's main landfill was getting close to being full up, the City started casting about for an alternate location. Nobody in Southern Ontario wanted a brand-spanking new landfill built in their backyard, or have their existing landfill expanded to take the big City's garbage (the environmental approval process would have taken ages and been very contentious).

    It basically came down to two choices: 1) Ship it by rail up north to an abandoned mine, or 2) Ship it by truck to Michigan. The Ontario option was preferred, but an agreement with the owner/operator could not be reached (they wanted the City to be on the hook for any $$ due to environmental damage or cost overruns in converting the site to landfill I think).

    So, Michigan became the only realistic option. Don't blame us - Republic Landfill came courting the City, and hey - no regulatory or Environmental Assessment approvals required - trash is just another commodity to be shipped across the border, like auto parts I guess. God bless NAFTA!

    Michigan apparently takes in garbage from all over the States, not just from Canada.

    I didn't know Canada was drilling for oil/gas under the Great Lakes.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    There is also several massive aquifers under the aquifers under many of them that connect into the lakes them selves. How can they drill for oil without contaminating the aquifers?
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Big Red's avatar
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    LOL

    Toronto Official 1: Hey, we gotta meet this aggressive waste diversion total eh?

    Toronto Official 2: Well we can't possibly deal with this situation internally, that's oot of the question eh.

    Toronto Official 1: Hey, instead of reducing waste lets just send it someplace else eh? That's responsible problem management doncha know.

    Toronto Official 2: BRILLIANT! Michigan would be a perfect spot for our garbage. That way we can tell people that there is actually a net loss of garbage in our land fills eh?

    Toronto Official 1: BRILLIANT! Problem solved. We're gonna look like geniuses doncha know? It's always easier to shuffle things around than attack the problem or modify an unrealistic socialist agenda. Let's go get a Moosehead eh?
    Maybe the most any of us can expect of ourselves isn't perfection but progress.

  10. #10
    maudit anglais
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    Quote Originally posted by Big Red
    LOL

    Toronto Official 1: Hey, we gotta meet this aggressive waste diversion total eh?

    Toronto Official 2: Well we can't possibly deal with this situation internally, that's oot of the question eh.

    Toronto Official 1: Hey, instead of reducing waste lets just send it someplace else eh? That's responsible problem management doncha know.

    Toronto Official 2: BRILLIANT! Michigan would be a perfect spot for our garbage. That way we can tell people that there is actually a net loss of garbage in our land fills eh?

    Toronto Official 1: BRILLIANT! Problem solved. We're gonna look like geniuses doncha know? It's always easier to shuffle things around than attack the problem or modify an unrealistic socialist agenda. Let's go get a Moosehead eh?
    Er, you misunderstand totally.

    1) The waste diversion target is irrespective of where the landfill is located.

    2) We didn't go to Michigan, Michigan came to us.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Big Red's avatar
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    Sorry Transplanner, Maybe I don't have all the facts.

    It just continually bugs me that on "dirty" issues like trash and sewer that we don't all take more responsibility and ownership of our own $#!+.
    Once it goes down the drain or into the trash can I don't think people really give a $#!+ ... until it's backing up in the streets.
    Maybe the most any of us can expect of ourselves isn't perfection but progress.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    The trash wouldn't be going to Michigan if someone over there didn't want it (and the $$$). There is no gun to anyone's head.

    I agree that its really quite the stupid situation, though. I don't see why they can't just use Scarborough. :-P

  13. #13
    Cyburbian
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    I just want to note for the record that, once again, in spite of the near-universal agreement that reducing our dependence on foreign oil is a Good Thing, exploiting our own resources is not allowed.
    "If you love something, let it go."
    What kind of crap is that?

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