Urban planning community | #theplannerlife

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: Let Freedom Ring

  1. #1

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468

    Let Freedom Ring

    News Flash: Iraqi Govenrment Invites Iran to Assist in Training Army

    From Basra: (http://empireburlesquenow.blogspot.com/)

    Let Freedom Ring
    George W. Bush brings liberation to the suffering people of Iraq (from the Christian Science Monitor):

    --- "No alcohol, no music CDs, woman forced to wear hijab, people murdered in the streets - this is not the city I remember," says Samir, an editor of one of Basra's largest newspapers. (His name, and others, have been changed for security reasons.) "In the past, Basra revolted against attempts to make it too Islamic." One woman living in Basra says, "Before, we had Saddam; now we have religious parties and militias. To them, a woman's smile is a crime...."

    But even this type of thuggery is not the only manifestation of religious extremism in Basra today. "This is a city where if you have a birthday party for your child, you could end up dead," says one Iraqi journalist. As drama professor Thawra Yousif Yaakub relates, her sister-in-law Salina belonged to an all-female band that performed at baby showers, birthday parties, and other festive occasions, playing before all-women audiences only. Last May, the band were unloading their equipment on the street after a gig, when a man leaped out of a car and opened fire, killing Salina and another band member. "They died because they were women and they made music," Yaakub says...

    "We have over 70 political parties, many without any constituents," says one academic. "Where do they get their funding? And whose interests do they serve - Basra's or Tehran's?" If Iran casts a political shadow over Basra, its influence on the city's social life is even greater. Over the past year, for example, many women changed their hijab style from the traditional Iraqi buknuk, or tight-fitting cowl, to the looser Iranian-style scarf. "But of course, the whole idea of compulsory hijab is Iranian," says Salaam Wendy, a Basran who recently returned to the city after living overseas for 20 years. "In the 1960s and 70s, you rarely saw women in Basra covered." As for the bans on alcohol, music CDs, or general mingling of the sexes, "This is Iranian, too," says Mr. Wendy. "In the past, Basra had bars, casinos, nightclubs - it had life. Basra has really become an Iranian city. I no longer recognize it."---

    Somewhere, the Ayatollah Khomeini is smiling: "How great is Allah! He's gotten the Great Satan to do our work for us! Blessed be Bush, blessed be!"
    That's what chaps me. Everything the anti-war crowd (as unsightly as some of them are) warned us about is coming true. What a debacle.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    16,482
    I am not sure that this has to do with the Iraqi army but that is beside the point. Let me start with the source. The writer might as well be Al Frankin, and the paper is not quite the most politely honest out there. I would trust CNN before I would believe that stuff. It rates right up there with World Weekly News. Second, a person came back to the city after being gone for 20 years? Hmmm maybe because it they now have freedom. If it was so great before, why did he move away? As for the Iranian influence, Look at parts of LA, Miami, Reading PA, and any other place that has a Spanish speaking culture. It is not uncommon for places to be significantly influenced by other countries, and in most cases there is nothing wrong with that.

    Overall, the writer sounds like a bit of a loon and it is obvious that he had to really reach for some of information that he wrote.
    There is no such thing as failure, only learning experiences. However, it is our choice to learn the lesson and change or not.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    West Valley, AZ
    Posts
    3,895
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Second, a person came back to the city after being gone for 20 years? Hmmm maybe because it they now have freedom. If it was so great before, why did he move away?
    Ask many educated, Mid-east immigrants and they may tell you that they loved their home towns, there family is there, but they felt that they had a greater opportunity for their careers or education elsewhere. Once they have become educated and possibly successful, they often return to be with family.

    As for the Iranian influence, Look at parts of LA, Miami, Reading PA, and any other place that has a Spanish speaking culture. It is not uncommon for places to be significantly influenced by other countries, and in most cases there is nothing wrong with that.
    I think the point may be the influences are not generally influences that were desired by the populace and are being violently forced upon all citizenery.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  4. #4

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    I am not sure that this has to do with the Iraqi army but that is beside the point. Let me start with the source. The writer might as well be Al Frankin, and the paper is not quite the most politely honest out there. I would trust CNN before I would believe that stuff. It rates right up there with World Weekly News. Second, a person came back to the city after being gone for 20 years? Hmmm maybe because it they now have freedom. If it was so great before, why did he move away? As for the Iranian influence, Look at parts of LA, Miami, Reading PA, and any other place that has a Spanish speaking culture. It is not uncommon for places to be significantly influenced by other countries, and in most cases there is nothing wrong with that.

    Overall, the writer sounds like a bit of a loon and it is obvious that he had to really reach for some of information that he wrote.
    The Christian Science Monitor is influenced by Al Franken? WTF?

    It's not just "loons" who are talking about the fundamentalist crackdown in Basra. The stories are coming out even in the right wing press, I mean the Mainstream Media. It's just the irony: we invaded Iraq, purportedly, to fight terrorism and/or (depending on the spin of the moment) instill Democracy. Instead, we are seeing the installation of Iranian-style theocrats. I just thought it was ironic.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    It's not just "loons" who are talking about the fundamentalist crackdown in Basra. The stories are coming out even in the right wing press, I mean the Mainstream Media. It's just the irony: we invaded Iraq, purportedly, to fight terrorism and/or (depending on the spin of the moment) instill Democracy. Instead, we are seeing the installation of Iranian-style theocrats. I just thought it was ironic.
    Sigh. Honestly, I hate arguing this stuff. I do. But let me say for the umpteenth time:

    If a man asks a woman for sex and she says "yes", it is called "making love". If he asks and she says "no" and he does it anyway, it is called "rape". That same principle applies to "helping" people: "helpfully" cramming democracy down someone's throat without asking them if they want it will be viewed as undesirable by the receiver to whom you think you are being so "generous" and, sheesh, why don't they appreciate all your hard work and generosity???? Why on earth wouldn't they look for something else to turn to and look to something fundamentally alien from the American paradigms being crammed down their throats and fundamentally more familiar and "homey"?

    "Freedom" which has not been freely chosen is NOT freedom. Why is this not obvious on the face of it? Yes, they ARE free -- and, as an expression of their newfound freedom of choice, they have chosen something less distasteful that isn't being forced upon them.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian nuovorecord's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    444
    I think the whole concept of freedom as a means of ending terrorism needs to be reexamined. Three of the four suspected London suicide bombers were native-born Brits. They grew up in a free and democratic society, yet they felt compelled to commit such a heinous, cowardly act.

    From the BBC's website:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4678837.stm

    "He was proud to be British," he said. "He had everything to live for. His parents were loving and supportive.

    "He was a very kind and calm person. He was respected by everyone."

    Neighbours described the graduate, who studied at Leeds Metropolitan University, as a "good Muslim". Others said he was a "nice lad" who could "get on with anyone".

    I'll repeat what I said in the London bombing thread...we need to rethink how we're going about this "war on terror" business and what it will take to end the violence. Installing freedom in Middle Eastern nations doesn't necessarily mean that people will not hate the West.
    "There's nothing wrong with America that can't be fixed by what's right with America." - Bill Clinton.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    16,482
    [rant]
    I realize that some of my comments above might have been a bit harsh. I do feel that something needs to be done about terrorism. If we had not gone to war, it might have gotten much worse. 9/11 attack was not in response to anything but was an offensive attack on not just American Freedom, but on World Freedom. The Spain and Britain attacks were in response to them helping us. I admit that I am getting tired about hearing about this war, and we all agree we want it to end.

    Many think that the invasion of Iraq and the removal of Sadam was not justifiable, I and many others do. I am proud that we finally put our foot down and stepped in. True those who lost there lives for this war will be missed, but the more that we say “Oh this war is not justified” it makes it sound like the died for no reason. I personally know people who were in Iraq, and they said that a vast majority of Iraq’s welcome this new freedom with open arms and are truly grateful to the American forces. The insurgence on the other hand will stop it nothing manipulate the way that people look at it, and much of the media, on both sides of the political spectrum, highlight many of the negative aspects of the war.

    I guess it is like planning. We can do the right thing for the community but still have many people opposed to it.

    One thing we all want is for this war to end, and if you feel so strong about this case, please go to this web site, write your congressman or senator, and do something about it. Until you do write them and exercise your right to inform your representatives of your feelings, I personally don’t think that you have any right to complain about anything involving the war. I have written my representatives in support of the war, but informed them that I feel that it is time for a definitive exit strategy to be developed and a set timeline to be followed. [/rant]

    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    The Christian Science Monitor is influenced by Al Franken? WTF?
    I said it sounds like Al Franken... not that he influences the tabloid...
    There is no such thing as failure, only learning experiences. However, it is our choice to learn the lesson and change or not.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Land of Confusion
    Posts
    3,872
    My understanding was that Iraqi society was awash with all sorts of vices once unthinkable under Sadaam's rule- basically drugs and porn and stuff. Stuff that was banned, sat. tv for example, I've heard is now in high demand. I just don't know what to believe anymore. I don't think we're getting honest reporting on what's going on over there- there's just to many people with agendas on both sides.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,074
    Freedom's a bitch aint it.

    It took us 11 years from the start of the Revolutionary War to the adpotion of the fecking US Constitution and we had Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Franklin, Hammelton and others. Those guys - who were freaking geniuses - had no model of democracy to work from - yet they invented a great system that has worked for 220+ years. Its a system every yelow punk in this nation seems to piss on by their actions, words and disrespect. It makes me sick to see how the unwashed have soiled the great gift that prior generations have given you.

    Of course the Founders were blessed by not having instantaneous world-wide press coverage driven by a media made up of huge egos, dirty cash, hate-Americanisms, and general stupidity. The Iraqi's on the other hand are working with a populace that is not known for having a strong independent streak. Another example of religion working hand in hand with the state to keep people dumb and repressed. There are more examples....

    PS - MZ your Rape analogy is insulting and offensive - you don't want me to go in to the reasons - but I will if you want. Of course I don't have a constitutional right not to be offended and you don't have a constitutional freedom from being told your opinion on this issue is moronic.

    edited by eg
    Last edited by el Guapo; 14 Jul 2005 at 11:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    PS - MZ your Rape analogy is insulting and offensive - you don't want me to go in to the reasons - but I will if you want. Of course I don't have a constitutional right not to be offended and you don't have a constitutional freedom from being told your opinion on this issue is moronic [edited by eg].
    Dear, saying I have grand scale issues with men as an explanation for why YOU are offended is what is known as a "personal attack". Please back up. I use the analogy because it makes sense to a lot of people -- for a lot of issues.
    Last edited by el Guapo; 14 Jul 2005 at 11:20 PM.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,074
    You might be right. I don't really care. Calling the liberation of a country and our plans for withdrawl - leaving them in charge of their own destiny - "rape" pisses me off to the ****ing extreme. Who the **** are you to insult the men and women who have died, their families and friends - who are you to compare them to accessories to rape? How is taking a dictator and his sons - who operated rape rooms by the way - comparable to rape? How is taking out a regime who filled masse graves rape? How is imprisoning a man who supported international terroism and created probably the greatest intentional ecological disaster rape?

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    You might be right. I don't really care. Calling the liberation of a country and our plans for withdrawl - leaving them in charge of their own destiny "rape" pisses me off to the ****ing extreme. Who the **** are you to insult the men and women who have died, their families and friends accessories to rape? How is taking a dictator and his sons - who operated rape rooms by the way - comparable to rape? How is taking out a regime who filled masse graves rape? How is imprisoning a man who supported international terroism and created probably the greatest intentional ecological disaster rape?
    You have missed my point. BKM was talking about the irony that they are choosing a theocracy in place of the democracy we hoped to put in place. If they are genuinely free to choose, what does it matter to us that they choose a theocracy? If they are ONLY "free" to choose the form of government that we think is right for them, have we in fact given them "freedom of choice"? I do not happen to think so. If you give people real freedom and they make a choice you do not agree with, it IS their choice. If you want to stop them from making that choice, you don't really want them to be FREE -- you want them to be little clones of America as a kind of tribute to our ego.

    I am sorry this is such a hot button issue for you. Maybe you are the one with grand scale personal issues that you are so overreacting and not hearing my point?

  13. #13
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,074
    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    You have missed my point. BKM was talking about the irony that they are choosing a theocracy in place of the democracy we hoped to put in place. If they are genuinely free to choose, what does it matter to us that they choose a theocracy? If they are ONLY "free" to choose the form of government that we think is right for them, have we in fact given them "freedom of choice"? I do not happen to think so. If you give people real freedom and they make a choice you do not agree with, it IS their choice. If you want to stop them from making that choice, you don't really want them to be FREE -- you want them to be little clones of America as a kind of tribute to our ego.

    I am sorry this is such a hot button issue for you. Maybe you are the one with grand scale personal issues that you are so overreacting and not hearing my point?

    No, I got your point very clearly. You said -by anaolgy- that the US RAPED Iraq. Fine, believe that all you want - its your right. I find people with your mindset to be a danger to the things I believe in. Your's is a destructive and dangerous mindset to the overall security of this nation and our way of life. I know its not PC to say it, but I believe the America haters have had too much rope and we need to get back in your faces and tell you your wrong. Personally, I'd like to see you guys pack and find a place that better suits you.

    The Iraqis will be totally free relatively soon as these things go. Would we like them to be a good democracy and a friend to the US - Hell Yes. Is it likely to happen? Not even the Bush administration believes that. But we have to give them a chance. We have to fulfill our obligation not to drop them like a hot rock like Bush's daddy did the Kurds and Shites. We are doing the honorable thing and I believe people just like youy need to check their damn destructive tounges and give the president and this policy a chance.

    Now, let's hear from the ACLU crowd here at Leftburbia.

    And yes, you insulted my Tribe and took an asschewing for it.

    I'm cooling my jets, I was wrong to make the personal shot - I'm sorry for that. I'll edit my personal shot/comments.
    Last edited by el Guapo; 14 Jul 2005 at 11:32 PM.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    No, I got your point very clearly. You said -by anaolgy- that the US RAPED Iraq. Fine, believe that all you want - its your right. I find people with your mindset to be a danger to the things I believe in. Your's is a destructive and dangerous mindset to the overall security of this nation and our way of life. I know its not PC to say it, but I believe the America haters have had too much rope and we need to get back in your faces and tell you your wrong. Personally, I'd like to see you guys pack and find a place that better suits you.

    The Iraqis will be totally free relatively soon as these things go. Would we like them to be a good democracy and a friend to the US - Hell Yes. Is it likely to happen? Not even the Bush administration believes that. But we have to give them a chance. We have to fulfill our obligation not to drop them like a hot rock like Bush's daddy did the Kurds and Shites. We are doing the honorable thing and I believe people just like youy need to check their damn destructive tounges and give the president and this policy a chance.

    Now, let's hear from the ACLU crowd here at Leftburbia.

    And yes, you insulted my Tribe and took an asschewing for it.

    I'm cooling my jets, I was wrong to make the personal shot - I'm sorry for that. I'll edit my personal shot/comments.
    El Guapo, I am not in any way stopping the president from doing anything. Nor do I hate America. And if you believe that "people like me" should pack and leave, then you aren't really interested in democracy. And if you believe it is perfectly okay to call me moronic and say other nasty things about me personally because you don't like what I have said and that I should just hold my tongue because you don't like the things I say, then you don't genuinely believe in freedom of speech.

    Honestly, how does your post live up to the ideals you claim to believe in?

    You seem intent on not actually communicating here. You are so intent on being offended, I am not sure why I am replying. Except that I have difficulty letting your interpretation of my comments stand as the final say on it. And I have difficulty letting someone I thought of as a friend leave a conversation on such a hostile note.

    PS I am not sure I appreciate you editing out the evidence of your bad behavior. It leaves my comments out of context and might make me look like I am overreacting when I think I have been far calmer than you have in this conversation.

  15. #15

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468
    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    You have missed my point. BKM was talking about the irony that they are choosing a theocracy in place of the democracy we hoped to put in place. If they are genuinely free to choose, what does it matter to us that they choose a theocracy? If they are ONLY "free" to choose the form of government that we think is right for them, have we in fact given them "freedom of choice"? I do not happen to think so. If you give people real freedom and they make a choice you do not agree with, it IS their choice. If you want to stop them from making that choice, you don't really want them to be FREE -- you want them to be little clones of America as a kind of tribute to our ego.

    I am sorry this is such a hot button issue for you. Maybe you are the one with grand scale personal issues that you are so overreacting and not hearing my point?
    It "matters" to mew as a taxpayer in that we have spent $300 billion and counting and thousands of lives to foster a regime even more hostile to us (and supportive of terrorism). I thought effectiveness was a conservative value.

  16. #16

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468
    Mods: Close this thread, please. It will degenerate very quickly.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    It "matters" to mew as a taxpayer in that we have spent $300 billion and counting and thousands of lives to foster a regime even more hostile to us (and supportive of terrorism). I thought effectiveness was a conservative value.
    I wish you had asked the mods to close the thread without first taking a swipe at me.

  18. #18

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468
    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    I wish you had asked the mods to close the thread before taking a swipe at me. How convenient to set it up that if I reply at all I am guilty of something.
    It wasn't meant necessarily as a swipe at you. Just a comment responding to your "it shouldn't matter what they do once they have been liberated" comment. Frankly, you're right. Either they are free, or not, to do what they want.

    I just resent spending our money and out lives to establish a government even more hostile to our interests. That is not a rational public policy. If they really wanted to be free, they needed to overthrow Sadaam themselves. Not depend on our deluded neocon leadership to do it for them.

    I suggested the thread be closed because I regreted opening another hostile political debate. I will avoid opening such threads in the future.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    It wasn't meant necessarily as a swipe at you. Just a comment responding to your "it shouldn't matter what they do once they have been liberated" comment. Frankly, you're right. Either they are free, or not, to do what they want.

    I just resent spending our money and out lives to establish a government even more hostile to our interests. That is not a rational public policy. If they really wanted to be free, they needed to overthrow Sadaam themselves. Not depend on our deluded neocon leadership to do it for them.

    I suggested the thread be closed because I regreted opening another hostile political debate. I will avoid opening such threads in the future.
    Thank you. I get myself in trouble in these threads because I try to discuss ideas rationally and really do not follow the politics. I am routinely accused of political positions that I do not hold. Since I routinely refrain from saying things that I feel will only stir the pot and not contribute anything meaningful, I don't know of any ready remedy.

    I agree that this thread should probably be closed, unfortunately.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    West Valley, AZ
    Posts
    3,895
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    The Iraqis will be totally free relatively soon as these things go. Would we like them to be a good democracy and a friend to the US - Hell Yes. Is it likely to happen? Not even the Bush administration believes that. But we have to give them a chance. We have to fulfill our obligation not to drop them like a hot rock like Bush's daddy did the Kurds and Shites. We are doing the honorable thing and I believe people just like youy need to check their damn destructive tounges and give the president and this policy a chance.
    If at this point our goal is to give them a chance to establish their own government, I am a supporter of the war in Afganistan and Iraq. I will continue to be upset with the impetus for war was. At this point, let's finish the job and go home. The worse thing we could do is exactly what you said about Bush Sr.

    eG, it was my impression that the Bush Admin really believed it was going to establish democracy in Iraq.. or we're they trying to be persuasive through the media?
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    16,482

    D Day as it would be covered by today's press

    Many of the people on the left sound like they could have written this...
    Three hundred French civilians were killed and thousands more were wounded today in the first hours of America's invasion of continental Europe. Casualties were heaviest among women and children. Most of the French casualties were the result of artillery fire from American ships attempting to knock out German fortifications prior to the landing of hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops. Reports from a makeshift hospital in the French town of St. Mere Eglise said the carnage was far worse than the French had anticipated, and that reaction against the American invasion was running high. "We are dying for no reason, "said a Frenchman speaking on condition of anonymity. "Americans can't even shoot straight. I never thought I'd say this, but life was better under Adolph Hitler."

    The invasion also caused severe environmental damage. American troops, tanks, trucks and machinery destroyed miles of pristine shoreline and thousands of acres of ecologically-sensitive wetlands. It was believed that the habitat of the spineless French crab was completely wiped out, thus threatening the species with extinction.

    A representative of Greenpeace said his organization, which had tried to stall the invasion for over a year, was appalled at the destruction, but not surprised. "This is just another example of how the military destroys the environment without a second thought," said Christine Moanmore. "And it's all about corporate greed." Contacted at his Manhattan condo, a member of the French government-in-exile who abandoned Paris when Hitler invaded, said the invasion was based solely on American financial interests. "Everyone knows that President Roosevelt has ties to 'big beer'," said Pierre LeWimp. "Once the German beer industry is conquered, Roosevelt's beer cronies will control the world market and make a fortune."

    Administration supporters said America's aggressive actions were based in part on the assertions of controversial scientist Albert Einstein, who sent a letter to Roosevelt speculating that the Germans were developing a secret weapon -- a so-called "atomic bomb." Such a weapon could produce casualties on a scale never seen before, and cause environmental damage that could last for thousands of years. Hitler has denied having such a weapon and international inspectors were unable to locate such weapons even after spending two long weekends in Germany.

    Shortly after the invasion began, reports surfaced that German prisoners had been abused by American soldiers. Mistreatment of Jews by Germans at their so-called "concentration camps" has been rumored, but so far this remains unproven. Several thousand Americans died during the first hours of the invasion, and French officials are concerned that the uncollected corpses will pose a public-health risk. "The Americans should have planned for this in advance," they said. "It's their mess, and we don't intend to help clean it up.
    There is no such thing as failure, only learning experiences. However, it is our choice to learn the lesson and change or not.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian Big Owl's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    near the edge
    Posts
    1,531
    Let Freedom Ring
    George W. Bush brings liberation to the suffering people of Iraq (from the Christian Science Monitor):

    --- "No alcohol, no music CDs, woman forced to wear hijab, people murdered in the streets - this is not the city I remember," says Samir, an editor of one of Basra's largest newspapers. (His name, and others, have been changed for security reasons.) "In the past, Basra revolted against attempts to make it too Islamic." One woman living in Basra says, "Before, we had Saddam; now we have religious parties and militias. To them, a woman's smile is a crime...." ...snip
    This appears to be from the the Christian Science Monitor but in reality the headline is added by some leftwing blogster. the real headline reads:

    Shiites bring rigid piety to Iraq's south
    and what appears like a article is actually a grouping of out of context quoutes from the real article mixxed in with some leftist commentary. The real article in context is about a city in Iraq that is heavily influenced by ***** muslims.

    we need quote our sources appropiately so that we don't mislead people. Despite what some believe blogs are not legitemate news sources.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    City of Low Low Wages!
    Posts
    3,235
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Many of the people on the left sound like they could have written this...

    This smells like a Godwin to me..

  24. #24
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    1,584
    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    Thank you. I get myself in trouble in these threads because I try to discuss ideas rationally and really do not follow the politics. I am routinely accused of political positions that I do not hold. .
    I find that a real limitation in political discussions is the speed in which people try to pin us into ideologies. They are a real trap and work against meaningful discussion because assumptions begin getting made about our other beliefs based on one or two statements. Political discussion is usually doomed from the outset, which is probably why not much discussion takes place when things start to really hit the fan.

    The right and the left in America speak that the other is destroying the country, and such an irrational split has been created that can only be dangerous and harmful. I don't know if I've ever seen citizens of a country in my lifetime that uses this absolute left/right judgement to this extreme.

  25. #25
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 1998
    Location
    On the Mother River
    Posts
    4,714
    Quote Originally posted by abrowne
    I find that a real limitation in political discussions is the speed in which people try to pin us into ideologies. They are a real trap and work against meaningful discussion because assumptions begin getting made about our other beliefs based on one or two statements.

    That is really a good point.
    “As soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fall”
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

More at Cyburbia

  1. Your ring tone(s)
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 17
    Last post: 05 Jun 2012, 12:36 PM
  2. Replies: 27
    Last post: 07 Aug 2008, 1:57 PM
  3. Ring roads
    Transportation Planning
    Replies: 30
    Last post: 24 Jun 2005, 4:37 PM
  4. One ring to bind them all...
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 12
    Last post: 02 Oct 2002, 11:13 AM
  5. Ring, ring goes the bell
    Perry's Cantina (archive)
    Replies: 10
    Last post: 19 Oct 2000, 1:59 PM