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Thread: More Terrorism Threats?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    More Terrorism Threats?

    Al Qaeda threatens more UK, U.S. attacks

    Well, what now? Lets try to not turn this into a political debate but one of Americans vs Terrorists. What do you think can be done to prevent such attacks, do you think that they are legitimate threats, and do you think that Osama Bin Ladin is even still alive? The report says that he has not released any statements since December, and the past 3 from Al Quida have been from this clown. I also think that this is a good point of proof between Iraq and Al Quida. Do you think that Al Quida will get control of Iraq and the oil? Do you think that they will raise prices so high that it will cripple the US?

    If you ran this country, what would you do?
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Al Qaeda threatens more UK, U.S. attacks

    Well, what now? Lets try to not turn this into a political debate but one of Americans vs Terrorists. What do you think can be done to prevent such attacks, do you think that they are legitimate threats, and do you think that Osama Bin Ladin is even still alive?
    I don't think it matters if he is alive or not, his ideologies live on.

    The report says that he has not released any statements since December, and the past 3 from Al Quida have been from this clown. I also think that this is a good point of proof between Iraq and Al Quida.
    Staying a-politcal. Iraq is not connected with this guy. The current Iraqi government is connected with us. The past Iraqi government was highly secular and might not (or might have) had ties to extremist groups. I lean that it is more likely that they did not. That does not go without saying that extremist were operating within the borders of Iraq. We have the same problem in the US and Britian has the same problem as well.

    Prevention is education! In a way I believe that is true. Also, prevention of the attacks is going to rely on very solid intelligence. If we don't have agents aquiring this data, we are blind and prone to repeat attacks. Also, I'm upset that mass transit and other forms of transportation are not regarded as high security issues like air travel is.

    Do you think that Al Quida will get control of Iraq and the oil? Do you think that they will raise prices so high that it will cripple the US?
    I don't think that anyone will get control of Iraq oil. Too many skirmishes are preventing any side from having productive control. I think that they new Saudi king is a bigger threat to raise gas prices than Al Queda. I'm honestly expecting $80/barrell within 6 months.

    If you ran this country, what would you do?
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Al Qaeda threatens more UK, U.S. attacks

    Do you think that Al Quida will get control of Iraq and the oil? Do you think that they will raise prices so high that it will cripple the US?
    Not at all. Al Qaeda is a fundamentalist Sunni organization that considers the Shiia majority in Iraq to be apostate. There may be short term and informal cooperation (especially when they are fighting a hated "infidel" invasion force), but there is little love lost between Shi'a and Wahabism

    So, Iraq, if such a "country" exists in five years, will be controlled by Iran. The treaties are already being signed, Shiia militia control the south, including liberated Bara (where gangs of fundie thugs roam around beating up "immoral" college women and killing journalists. Boy, British policing is almost as effective as American efforts to control Baghdad!)

    Our far-thinking foreign policy has ensured that the one of the two nuclear-armed fundamentalist (or near fundamentalist) states in the Middle East (Pakistan, our "ally," is the other) will now control even more of the world's oil supply.

    Wow. This is just wow.

    A Congressman whose party shall remain nameless in order to preserve our "nonpolitical" tone has just eliminated a long-standing restriction on the export of weapons-grade uranium to private companies. www.billmon.org A Canadian company now has enough material to create two Atomic bombs. Do these comapnies have enough security in place to protect this?

    The penultimate quotation:

    It only reinforces something I've suspected for awhile: If Bin Ladin really wanted to destroy America, he'd forget about the terrorist cells and the hijackings and just hire himself an extremely well-connected Washington lobbying firm. If he was willing to spread enough cash around Capitol Hill, I bet he could have us nuking ourselves, Milo Minderbinder style."

  4. #4
    Cyburbian
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    It is probable the Iran, as it is constituted today, will be the country that does not exist five years hence. Most of the population is too young to have been alive during the 1979 revolution. They are vastly more pro-American than the ruling mullahs. I believe another, pro-western revolution is imminent.
    "If you love something, let it go."
    What kind of crap is that?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally posted by greginboise
    It is probable the Iran, as it is constituted today, will be the country that does not exist five years hence. Most of the population is too young to have been alive during the 1979 revolution. They are vastly more pro-American than the ruling mullahs. I believe another, pro-western revolution is imminent.
    Ah. Here is one place I agree with you in hoping this will be the case. This is one lefty whose multiculti leanings do not mean that I have any love for fundamentalist Islam of any stripe (or of any Abrahamic religions, for that matter).

    My point was more that "Iraq" is a cobbled-together almagamation of tribes and interest groups created by the colonial powers after WWI. We can hope it holds together, but even optimistic scenarios see turmoil. Al Qaeda will certainly play a role in fermenting this turmoil (or at least formenting it).

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    The penultimate quotation:
    No, try this one, from the link provided above by michaelskis:

    "If you don't leave today, certainly you will leave tomorrow, and after tens of thousands of dead, and double that figure in disabled and wounded."
    That's from a certain Mr. al-Zawahiri. Tens of thousands dead?!! Now that's scary. A cryptic message referring to nuclear capabilities?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally posted by Wanigas?
    No, try this one, from the link provided above by michaelskis:



    That's from a certain Mr. al-Zawahiri. Tens of thousands dead?!! Now that's scary. A cryptic message referring to nuclear capabilities?

    pretty scary.

    the stuff probably came from Pakistan or the Soviet Union.

  8. #8
    maudit anglais
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    It's interesting to see how this latest statement has all the usual suspects running scared. What do expect them to say "gee, well we'd like to bomb you all but gosh darn we just don't have the capability so don't worry about us too much"?

    Anyone remember Saddam's promises at the beginning of Gulf War I to turn the desert red with blood of America's soldiers and the Mother of all Battles and such?

    Sure, be concerned - and let's do our best to stop these guys before they can make good on their threats, but c'mon now.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    I don't think we can ever expect extremist terrorism to end until we (1) combat and protect ourselves from these groups, and (2) change the way the superpower (U.S.) and our allies do things in that region.

    So much of this terrorism is an outgrowth of Western European and American actvities over the last 100 years or so. As a result of WWI we carved up the region into arbitrary national divisions that suited Western Europe, not the people who lived there. The West put into power that leaders we favored. The list goes on and on.

    In short, we (The West) have been messing with these people since the Crusades and some among them are p*ssed off enough to go postal on everyone.

    Please do not construe what I have written as blaming the West for what is happening. What was done is done. We cannot change that.

    I do not believe we will succeed in killing or crushing them into submission. We need to address the existing dangers, while consciously working on improving relations in the Mid-East and the world.

    The extremists get recognition and support in their societies partly because they look like they are battling oppressors. We need to improve our standing among these societies. We must appear more reasonable, helpful, less intrusive, and less corruptive to their cultures. I believe this tack can win us respect among these cultures and turn the tide against the extremists. We in the West cannot destroy the extremists. But the people within the Mid East cultures can make them go away by turning their hearts against them.

    That said, we still must address any and all threats to our people.

    Make war on the extremists, not on the people.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  10. #10
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I was thinking about this during lunch and I started to ask what will it take to bring peace into the world if such a thing is even possible. I personally don’t think that it is. Even when the US has not been involved, I truly think that there has been some conflict between two nation-states or ethnic groups in someplace in the world.

    I guess we just need to find out why these other countries hate us, and what needs to be done to change the UN so that it is not just a thought of as a joke by these terrorists. I too think that education and training is the best idea. I also agree that this sounds more like a scare tactic but safety measures should still be taken to prevent any attack.

    I also think that after world War II, many counties have become segmented from each other when it comes to defensive battles. It is like the phase goes, United we stand, divided we fall. If the terrorists become united, then we might have some problems. It is just a matter of time before all our enemies team up against us at once.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    [snip] What do you think can be done to prevent such attacks [snip]
    More diplomacy, less warfare...

    oh. Too late for that...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  12. #12
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by greginboise
    It is probable the Iran, as it is constituted today, will be the country that does not exist five years hence. Most of the population is too young to have been alive during the 1979 revolution. They are vastly more pro-American than the ruling mullahs. I believe another, pro-western revolution is imminent.
    I might have been inclined to agree with this premise before the invasion of Iraq and the news spread about the Abu Graib incidents throughout the Arab world.

    The recent elections demonstrated that Iranian public sentiment swung clearly and decisively towards the hard-liners. So much for pro-western reform .
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4621249.stm
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  13. #13
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN
    More diplomacy, less warfare...

    oh. Too late for that...
    We tried diplomacy once. It led to an attack on a naval base on a small island. They even made a movie about it called Pear Harbor.

    We also tried to work with the UN, but I guess that the French would like the idea of learning Arabic
    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    I might have been inclined to agree with this premise before the invasion of Iraq and the news spread about the Abu Graib incidents throughout the Arab world.

    The recent elections demonstrated that Iranian public sentiment swung clearly and decisively towards the hard-liners. So much for pro-western reform .
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4621249.stm
    Wow... this is going to suck.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  14. #14
    Member Wulf9's avatar
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    50 mpg cars. Crash program in alternative energy. We are sending billions of dollars to an area that would not be a threat -- unless it had billions of dollars.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Coragus's avatar
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    A lot of you won't like my preferred response to the latest threats.

    1. Now that we're there, stay in Iraq and rebuild it.
    2. Create a new government department, called the Department of Cleansing, aka "The Professional". Their only task is to remove Al Qaeda members.
    The cookies are worth the drive

  16. #16
    Cyburbian
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    I was in a conference in June about homeland security and what communities can expect. The majority of the conference was done by the FBI. At that training, they said that they believe an attack on a western European country would occur in the next 3 months, and the attacks would be used to judge their effectiveness to be used in the US. within the 12 months.

    They also talked pretty heavily about dirty bombs and the like. The impacts of a dirty bomb are more long term and not a huge threat. They are much more concerned about the development of things like VX nerve gas which can apparently be created by distilling weed killers (most weed killers are diluted versions of it) to get a more concentrated form and some other acid that will kill you in about 15 minutes. The kicker is that the acid is used by many buisnesses, primarily the semi conductor industry. The acid does not burn you, it penetrates your skin and sucks up all the calcium in your body and sends you into extremely violent convulsions and eventually stops your heart. It looks and has the consistency of water.

    They also talked pretty extensively about a political group in The Dalles, OR that put sopme sort of chemical agent in salad bars at local restraunts in orderto keep people from voting so there candidate would win the election. Enough of the population got sick from it that the election got postponed.

  17. #17

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    I'll do my best to stay apolitical about this, and just offer some observations and potential scenarios.

    1) We will get hit again with a terrorist attack, and there is likely little we can do to prevent it except get rid of all our civil liberties. I think the Madrid and London bombings are significant, because they targeted a vulnerable spot in both countries that's still vulnerable in the USA -- public transit.

    2) I personally think that Osama is still alive, but even if he isn't it doesn't matter. He's already accomplished his goal of establishing a battleground between Muslim extremists and the USA, and thousands of others have picked up his torch.

    3) Still don't think there was ever an Al Qaeda/Iraq connection, except for the fact that they both hated us. People forget that Iraq was an Arab secularist nation that was as repulsed by Muslim extremism as anybody -- that's why they purged the Shia.

    As for what I foresee happening:

    1) Iraq will have a new constitution that will be hailed as the model for democracy in the Middle East. But it will have no effect on the violence in the country.

    2) We will have a substantial drawdown of troops in Iraq that will begin in January 2006, and we will have maybe half as many troops by fall 2006 as there are now. Timed for the 2006 midterm elections? Hmm. At any rate, we will claim victory.

    3) Shiite militias will come to play a major role in Iraq in 2007 and 2008. They will fight the government moderates that we put in place, and civil war will take over.

    4) We will still be bracing for terrorist attacks, as we find out that terrorist networks move out of Iraq to establish bases in other nations (Indonesia? Pakistan? Sudan?). We won't have the same presence in Iraq, but they (the terrorists) will claim victory there and seek us out on some other ground.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    We tried diplomacy once. It led to an attack on a naval base on a small island. They even made a movie about it called Pear Harbor.
    Wow this is so close to being a Godwin. But the point of the Godwin is evident here: 1) the situation with Japan was so completely different that it bears little relevancy and 2) this is an appeal to emotion (our collective anger over the sneak attack).

    PS: is Pear Harbor near Pearl harbor? That wasn't even the best movie about it. When I was a kid, I loved Tora Tora Tora: less love story, more multidimensional Japanese.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian
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    Michaelskis,

    So because we got sucker punched in the 40's, we can no longer work towards diplomacy? That's right, shoot first, ask second. We better kill them all. Maybe we should put them all in special camps in the middle of nowhere so that we can keep an eye on them. Good sound policy.

    In orderto defeat terrorism, WE (all who are opposed to terrorsim) need to show them that they cannot deter us from our values, our way of live, etc. by showing that we are scared, they are winning, despite the number of insurgents, al qaida, taliban, we kill.

    Tora, Tora Tora was by far a better movie. There is a japanese movie with english subtitles about Pearl Harbor that I saw in college that did a great job of showing the Japanese perspective of World War II. Wish I could remember the name. . .

  20. #20
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Yes, there will be more terrorist attacks on USA soil. Some could be horrific because they may happen at a mall, a store, an event, on the corner of a major downtown block. Attack could come in many forms, and we have heard them all.

    Scariest is probably the "suitcase nuke", not because it will kill or injure a few thousand wherever it goes off.....but the emotional after-effects will be the scary part. And.....how we respond will set the stage for world politics from that day on.

    If extremists are in office, we will probably respond with tactical nukes....perhaps at small places that have known terrorist camps. If moderates are in office, we will probably respond with more of what we have seen before......just maybe a better "case" will be made.

    If "heads-in-the-sand" folks are in office, there will be some major homeland security problems......and the terror won't be from outside fundamentalists. The terror will be from those who say they want to "....take back America.....".

    I'm glad I'm olde.

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    Occupy Cyburbia!

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    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Fu*k al-qaida. They kill us, we will kill them. And anybody who disagrees with taking the war to the terrorists has no concept of reality and how much they want to kill us. We can't just go about our lives like the Israelis did for so long, and like the Brits will end up doing, mass murder occurring all around everyday, as routine as the workday. We shall not let that happen.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

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    Member Wulf9's avatar
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    Probably an idle thought, but.....

    The American borders are so porous that 500,000 people can illegally enter on foot, in trucks, in buses,in shipping containers, etc. How come there has not been another attack in four years. That's not to say it won't happen, but it does say it would be easy to get a batch of terrorists into the country with equipment, supplies, money, etc. and none have come.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wulf9
    Probably an idle thought, but.....

    The American borders are so porous that 500,000 people can illegally enter on foot, in trucks, in buses,in shipping containers, etc. How come there has not been another attack in four years. That's not to say it won't happen, but it does say it would be easy to get a batch of terrorists into the country with equipment, supplies, money, etc. and none have come.
    Yeah but our borders are just too long and it isn't even worth it to try and protect them. Don't worry though because once the middle east becomes a western-loving bastion of freedom we won't have to worry about terrorism no more.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Al Qaeda threatens more UK, U.S. attacks

    Well, what now? Lets try to not turn this into a political debate but one of Americans vs Terrorists. What do you think can be done to prevent such attacks...
    On the individual level: Stop relying on oil as an energy slave, and start using transit, bikes and your own two feet more. But to do this, we'll need to stop dichotomizing where we live from where we work.

    On the governmental level: Stop using the military to imperialize in other countries, profiteering from the war industry and exploiting resources in total disregard for the rest of the world and its future..

    Americans vs Terrorists
    As long as you frame the debate as such, you're missing why they hate us. War is terror - Of which we are the undisputed world champions. Who the hell are we as a nation to be only 4% of world population, yet consume 25% of oil resources? America is a synonym for greed and overconsumption, and it is rapidly headed toward choking on its own excesses.

    Arabs gave us zero's for which Bill Gates and his operating system should be grateful. We have to allow for a little cultural relativism. As long as we keep trying to tell them how to run their countries and what to do with their natural resources, they will continue to terrorize us.

    "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, will leave everyone blind and toothless."

    -Mahatma Gandhi-
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  25. #25
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    On the individual level: Stop relying on oil as an energy slave, and start using transit, bikes and your own two feet more. But to do this, we'll need to stop dichotomizing where we live from where we work.
    I agree with you. It is a shame that it will never happen.

    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    On the governmental level: Stop using the military to imperialize in other countries, profiteering from the war industry and exploiting resources in total disregard for the rest of the world and its future..
    I know several people who are or were in Iraq and regardless of who they voted for they all agree that Iraq has a better future because we removed Saddam. Some of the residents are worried that if we leave right now, the country will be taken over by the terrorists.

    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    As long as you frame the debate as such, you're missing why they hate us. War is terror - Of which we are the undisputed world champions. Who the hell are we as a nation to be only 4% of world population, yet consume 25% of oil resources? America is a synonym for greed and overconsumption, and it is rapidly headed toward choking on its own excesses.
    Ok, if War is not the answer, what is? How about we become a completely self reliant country, but in return eliminate any funding or aid to any country, eliminate any imports, and become completely isolated from the rest of the world. If a country has a problem, call France... they don’t like war and I am sure that they will be happy to help anyone... heck, maybe they are such a bleeding heart country that maybe they are sheltering Osama from the Big Bad US military.

    If anything, I think that they hate us because many of their governments limit their futures and possibilities to truly excel with their dreams while our government encourages us.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

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