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Thread: War Against Iraq?

  1. #1

    War Against Iraq?









    What do you think about it?

    (I'm not talking about the comic..)

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Plus PlannerGirl's avatar
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    I think Bush is out of his mind

    i do NOT support this push to invade.

    D
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

    Remember this motto to live by: "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO- HOO what a ride!'"

  3. #3
    The notion that Iraq would attack the US interests is ridiculous. Saddam may be a bastard and evil, but he is not stupid. He knows that if he does anything, within 24 hours the US will begin bombing Iraq and within 30 days he will either be dead, captured, or on the run and there will be a "regime change" in Iraq. I don't support the Bush argument that we have to remove him because he "might" be developing waepons of mass destruction that he "might" use against the US.
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

    - Homer Simpson

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
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    I think Bush is underestimating Saddam Hussein.
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  5. #5
    maudit anglais
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    I definitely think Saddam Hussein should be removed from power - the long list of transgressions and atrocities he has instigated transcend mere "internal" matters. The outstanding UN resolutions, the use of chemical weapons against his own people, the initiation of aggressive war against Kuwait and Iran, etc. all tell me he is somebody that the international community should take action against.

    What pisses me off is the politics involved - we didn't do anything against him when he was a "friend" of the west, and then we didn't punish him enough during/after Desert Storm. So now, the optics of removing him look bad - it's George Jr. trying to complete the job his dad couldn't. I think that's what it looks like to a lot of other countries.

    I agree with jtfortin - the mere fact that he may be developing weapons of mass destruction isn't enough to act now. Not seeing as we haven't done anything for the past 10 years when he was dicking the UN around.

    Unfortunately, that means we may have to wait for another terrorist attack or worse before acting.

  6. #6
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Send El Guapo with a rifle and a scope.
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  7. #7
    Member Glomer's avatar
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    Oh.....you blame america first liberals give me a headache.

    The notion that Iraq would attack the US interests is ridiculous. Saddam may be a bastard and evil, but he is not stupid. He knows that if he does anything, within 24 hours the US will begin bombing Iraq and within 30 days he will either be dead, captured, or on the run and there will be a "regime change" in Iraq.

    how does Saddam know that????? if we don't fight back? Saddam was given a set of rules to follow by the UN. He broke all of them.

    President Bush and the United States, although many of the democrats don't seem to want to believe, are still at war!!!! We will destroy anyone who is any threat to our country. You liberals forget too quickly after sept. 11th. It was OK for us to retaliate, but not finish the job. (i.e. Clinton launching a couple missles between his romps with Monica)

    What is the Democrats stand, I ask you. They keep making up excuses on why we should delay, but they won't make a stand on what we should do. Typical liberal leadership! They told bush he must go to the UN. He went.......and told them to either do something, make him follow the rules they laid out for him a long time ago, or the STEP ASIDE and I'll do it for you.

    You say Bush doesn't have the support of the American people. Have you checked his approval rating lately?

    Let me ask you, what do we push for as planners???? To be proactive, rather than reactive... It is about time that we do just that, and it is about time that we have a leader that will do just that. When we take out Saddam......The streets of Iraq will be rejoicing. The world will be a better place with him out of power, just as it was with Hitler out of power. (although there were liberal blame america first people back then that didn't want us to fight Germany)

    There are some leaders who rise to the occasion. Leaders that are ment to lead at certain a certain time. Clinton was ment to lead at the time he did......Thanks to Reagan (I know people won't like that) the economy was on the up and up. There wasn't anything Clinton could do to screw things up......the only thing he could do is ruin the character and morality of the presidential office (HE ACCOMPLISHED THAT)

    Bush was ment to lead at this time. When you go to bed at night and know that you can sleep safe.....be glad that he is running the show and not Gore......You want Bush on that line, you need bush on that line.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Glomer
    Oh.....you blame america first liberals give me a headache.

    President Bush and the United States, although many of the democrats don't seem to want to believe, are still at war!!!! We will destroy anyone who is any threat to our country. You liberals forget too quickly after sept. 11th. It was OK for us to retaliate, but not finish the job. (i.e. Clinton launching a couple missles between his romps with Monica)

    I am so sick and tired of conservatives playing the "blame america first" or the "anti-patriotic" card. Just because someone thinks that the US should not remove Saddam, doesn't mean that they hate america or want to blame America. My point is that in the sanctions against Iraq are from the UN and if the UN decides to remove him that is fine. If the UN wants to explore other options, the US should also explore these options before beating the war drum.

    You comment about not finishing the job can be traced right back to President George Bush and current members of this administration that didn't finish the job in 1991 when they could have removed Saddam.
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

    - Homer Simpson

  9. #9
    Cyburbian poncho's avatar
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    We are at war? I will give you that, but tell me what war are we at, terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, regime change, or oil. Since Reagan was so brilliant , why cant we use the cold war tactics and wait it out.
    Where is the evidence, aluminum tubes, I guess that is part of the great secret presidency, we don't really need to know.

    And if we will destroy anyone who is a threat to our country why is Ashcroft still the AG. (that was a joke, please don't report me for being unpatriotic)

    I do think there is a time and place for war, Afganastan might have been one but I do believe war should be the last resort. It seems like a Greek Tragedy more than anything else.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    This whole business about a war with Iraq is getting tiresome. Either our country should do something or just shut-up about it. I can't even watch the news anymore because it's always about the "debate" surrounding the "Showdown with Saddam." **yawn** There is no new news anymore about Iraq - it's just a war with words among America's Greatest Figureheads: Daschle, Bush, Powell, and Rice, and other talking heads. This whole business of politics in this country is a sham - the more I think about it, the more apolitical I want to become. I think it all began during the broadcast of the Clinton testimony in 1999 - "That depends on what is is." When I saw that, a lightbulb went on over my head - elected officials talk sh** for a reason. Ever since then, I have paid more close attention to what's said, how it's said, and why it's said. Basically, I don't trust politicians at face value anymore - they're always up to something. With that in mind, and knowing that Iraq has some of the largest oil reserves in the world, and knowing that Bush & Cheney are oil businessmen themselves, I am skeptical that the whole "War with Iraq" is just about getting an "evil" man out of power. Bush & Cheney have strong interests in oil - if Saddam was a lobsterman, I'm sure we wouldn't hear a peep about him. If Bush were truly concerned about weapons of mass destruction, then he'd head on over to India and work to find a peaceful solution to resolving the Kashmir conflict between India and Pakistan. Those countries were so close to nuclear war in May!! Talk about weapons of mass destruction!

  11. #11
    Cyburbian prudence's avatar
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    Bomb early, bomb often...kind of like Chicago democratic politics. Closure is necessary. It's funny how only a few short years ago that Daschle expressed that there was great need to attack Iraq, because his boss Slick Willie was trying to deflect from his transgressions (think Wag The Dog) and today Daschle sings a different tune.

    I agree with Glomer...and EG with a scope and rifle is a winning idea regardless of the situation.
    "Dear Prudence...won't you open up your eyes? "

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Closure, my dear Prudence, is only necessary because George Sr. didnt finish what he started 12 years ago! Now the son has to clean up the mess left by his father, and his father's lying cheating S.O.S. successor. BTW - wasn't it George H.W. Bush. that funded Osama and the Taliban in Afghanistan when they were fighting off the Soviets? HMMMMMM. The circle is complete.

    It really pissed me off when Dubya told the UN to join the US against Iraq or we'd do it outrselves anyway.

  13. #13
    Member Glomer's avatar
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    Bturk: It really pissed me off when Dubya told the UN to join the US against Iraq or we'd do it outrselves anyway.

    why did that piss you off? It pisses me off that we think we have to ask the UN who doesn't follow through with its own sanctions.

    Analogy....I'll admit it is dumb......but the best I can think of off hand.

    Lets say your child is getting beat up at school. The school board (UN) says we will take care of it. Your child continues to get threats and you just know something could happen. You want to do something before it is too late........... If it were me, I would say screw the school board (UN) and take matters into my own hands to protect my child.


    Dumb analogy, but get my point??????

  14. #14
    This is not meant to be an Anti-American statement, but I am sick and tired of the US refusing to sign environmental and other treaties, agreements, goals etc. endorsed by the majority of the world's develped countries, then having a fit when other countries don't go along with our plans. I know war against Iraq and some environmental treaty are two entirely different things, but I can't help but think that the US's refusal to cooperate on other global issues has played a big part in other countries denouncing our plans to remove Saddam.
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

    - Homer Simpson

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Originally posted by jtfortin
    This is not meant to be an Anti-American statement...
    Why the paranoia? I think we need more critical statements about this country. We have the right to do that. You guys don't have to apologize - just say them.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Runner's avatar
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    Unfortunately, that means we may have to wait for another terrorist attack or worse before acting.
    I pray and hope that this is not the case. If we think Sept 11 was bad the next attack, with the corresponding sick need in the terrorist mind to top the last attack, is not going to be pleasant... Maybe closer to Dan's pictures only of a U.S. city.

    That said I don't think that Saddam would ever attack the U.S., directly. He would also be adept at covering his tracks. I fear his method would be letting some of his "technology" "accidentally" fall into the hands of the super terrorists.

    Bottom line: I don't think we can afford to wait. But if we do, I guess the anti war crowd will be singing a different tune as they watch CCN's coverage of the ashtray that used to me an American city.

    On a side note I read an interesting editorial the other day on our current war. Its point was that claiming to fight a "war on terrorism" is a failed concept. Terrorism is a tactic just as a flanking maneuver is a tactic. We need to acknowledge that this is a war against radical fundamental Islam and get on with it.
    Last edited by Runner; 18 Sep 2002 at 1:45 PM.
    Cheers,
    UrbanRunner
    :)
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    "What Would Jane Jacobs Do?"

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Kill em all I say!! All the liberals too!!

    It just pisses me off that we waited until I was out of the USMC to go back and finish the job.

    No seriously, I blame alot of this on us. We never finished the job during Desert Storm because the American public 99.9% of whom have never served a day in their life in military say that we need to be kind to our enemies....or we can't use these weapons because they are inhumane......or we can't starve them into submission because....but what about the children!!!

    The US foreign policy when it comes these ass backwards terroristic countries just makes me sick. I wish we would adopt the warfighting doctrine of medieval times, we don't just win wars, we destroy your country, your culture, your civilization and all its history that goes with it. Your country belongs to us now. No more of this giving back nonsense and installing a leader we're only gonna have to take out in a couple of years.

    50 states aren't enough. We need more. We need to start expanding our country.

  18. #18
    Member Glomer's avatar
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    Why the paranoia? I think we need more anti-American statements in this country. You guys don't have to apologize - just say them.

    and for that statement I reward you a trip to any other country other than ours..........Send me an email in a few years and tell me how anti-american you are.

    As my grandfather told my extreme left wing brother once......."you can disagree, but god dammit love and support this country or get the hell out!"

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Habanero's avatar
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    What I don't understand is that a few of those countries have UN sanction violations, yet we support them. I don't see us cutting any of the other countries off and taking action against them, even though they use car bombs and other "terrorist" acts against neighboring countries.

    Saddam is a sad little man, but his son is much worse.. I'd want to think twice about asking for a regime change.. especially if his son takes power.


    Otherwise, El Guapo is my pick, I'm sure if he'd have gotten his way though, as I heard from many troops that come back, they wish they would've gotten that chance then..
    When Jesus said "love your enemies", he probably didn't mean kill them.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian Runner's avatar
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    50 states aren't enough. We need more. We need to start expanding our country.
    I'm not sure if I agree with this thought, but lets run with it anyway.

    Planning the new Iraq:
    No single use zoning.
    Urban growth boundaries.
    No Highway Department lets have a real Dept. of Transportation that can think beyond the automobile.
    Emphasis on transit (Bus, Trolley, Trains)
    Re-think public art, the crossed swords just doesn't work for me.
    Parliamentary Government

    What else can we add to the list?
    Cheers,
    UrbanRunner
    :)
    _____________________________
    WWJJD
    "What Would Jane Jacobs Do?"

  21. #21
    Originally posted by Glomer
    Why the paranoia? I think we need more anti-American statements in this country. You guys don't have to apologize - just say them.

    Hmm I really like how you "quoted" someone but changed the quote. I believe the original quote said "critical statements" not "Anti-American statements." They are two totally different things. If you criticize the government of the US you are not Anti-American. If that was the case, every single conservative who criticized Clinton would be Anti-American.

    Criticizing the government is actually as American of an activity as you can do. In some countries criticizing the policies of the government will get you killed. Here in america it sparks debate. People make critical comments about the government because they want to make America better. For some people, peaceful confilct resolution instead of war is their idea of an ideal America, not an anti-American statement. My earlier comment criticizing American refusal to sign key environmental agreements was not anti-American, but rather an opinion that if we, as one of the largest contributors to world pollution, would cooperate with others on some issues (environment), they may cooperate with us (removal of Saddam).
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

    - Homer Simpson

  22. #22
    Cyburbian prudence's avatar
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    Originally posted by Mike DeVuono
    Kill em all I say!! All the liberals too!!

    No seriously, I blame alot of this on us. We never finished the job during Desert Storm because the American public 99.9% of whom have never served a day in their life in military say that we need to be kind to our enemies....or we can't use these weapons because they are inhumane......or we can't starve them into submission because....but what about the children!!!

    I never served, and probably will never serve, in the US military. Ass kickings are sometimes a necessary part of life. Kid A (Iraq) will beat up Kid B (Kuwait) until Kid C (US) comes along to kick Kid A's ass. Kid B will do whatever Kid C wants becuase it Kid A's ass...what's the point of being the big kid on the block if you can't use your size once in a while. The UN is like the teacher supervising the playground; physically located in the area, but doesn't see or do anything.
    "Dear Prudence...won't you open up your eyes? "

  23. #23
    Member Glomer's avatar
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    Hmmmm...something funny is going on.

    I coppied and pasted the quote onto my reply........is it possible that the original quote was some how changed???????? could this be a conspiracy against all garage logic, common sense conservatives??????

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Let's send Lee Greenwood to Iraq. He can be the Pied Piper of a new era.

    I'm so sick of that damned "Proud to be an American" song....

  25. #25
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Originally posted by Glomer
    Hmmmm...something funny is going on.

    I coppied and pasted the quote onto my reply........is it possible that the original quote was some how changed???????? could this be a conspiracy against all garage logic, common sense conservatives??????
    Moderators and Super Moderators (and Dan) have the Power Of Edit. I doubt however, that any one of us would use those Powers for evil.....

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