Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 74

Thread: War Against Iraq?

  1. #26
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935
    Originally posted by prudence

    I never served, and probably will never serve, in the US military.
    Was it the flat feet or the missing testacles that kept you out of the military?

  2. #27
    maudit anglais
    Registered
    May 1997
    Location
    Odd-a-wah
    Posts
    6,586
    Editorial Cartoon from todays Globe and Mail...

  3. #28
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,627
    Blog entries
    3
    Disagreeing with an element of U.S. policy is in itself not Anti-American. "Question Authority" is a distinctly American trait.

    However, many in the progressive camp take the stance that EVERYTHING the United States does is wrong. An example is when we get involved as a third party somewhere in the world; the side we talk is always the wrong side to them.

    Let's look at Afghanistan . Before the WTC attack, many US progressives urged action against the oppressive Taliban regime, for their oppression of women and non-Muslims. When we acted, though, the protests began ... because we were now taking action. It's now a "racist war," a "war against Islam," an example of not taking the perceived high road of pacifism. The fact that women were "liberated" (to the extent that they were) and that the brutal oppression fo the Taliban ended wasn't an issue. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    In the minds of many progressives, we (being the US) always choose the wrong side in which oppressive regimes we support. (As if we should be supporting any of them, but still ...) Family of Saud bad. (Oppression of women!) Saddam Hussein good. (Poor, starving Iraq.) China bad. (Free Tibet!) Cuba good. (Viva Che! Viva Fidel! Viva la revolucion!) I can't explain it, except as anti-Americanism for its own sake, almost a political fashion statement among a certain crowd.

    Now, the conservatives that use the word "liberal" to label ALL liberals as having a certain mindset, as if everyone whose mindset that runs left of center thinks and acts alike ... read between the lines. The conception that some conservatives not have of liberals isn't much different than the oft-held belief that all blacks think alike." What difference is there between "Liberals don't want to take action against Iraq" and "Blacks celebrated O.J. Simpson's verdict of innocence"?

    Liberal media? What, the editorial pages in the New York Times and Thursday urban alternative freesheets are dominant media forces? NPR isn't even liberal ... just having a liberal audience doesn't mean they have a liberal slant. Listen closely. I think far more people own AM radios than those that subscribe to the Times. Consider the corporate ownership of broadcast media and most newspapers. Think they're spouting out leftist propaganda? Sorry, righties, but it's all a myth..

    I'll admit to plagarism on this next sentece, but it says it better than I could. It will be a cold day in hell when see Cockburn or Pollitt sparring with Will on ``This Week with David Brinkley,'' or read Chomsky's writings in the New York Times, or hear Jerry Brown's talk program carried on as many radio stations as Rush Limbaugh's. This is why all the conservative sputtering about ``the liberal media'' is a cruel joke that's being played on the American news consumer. The Right's agenda is upheld virtually everywhere in the mainstream media, and has been for years.

    "I admit it : The liberal media were never that powerful and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures."
    William Kristol

    "I've gotten balanced coverage and broad coverage - all we could have asked. ... For heaven sakes, we kid about the liberal media, but every republican on earth does that."
    Pat Buchanan

    "Repetition is the lynchpin of propaganda."
    Joseph Gobbels
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  4. #29
    Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator NHPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 1996
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,667
    Originally posted by Glomer
    Hmmmm...something funny is going on.

    I coppied and pasted the quote onto my reply........is it possible that the original quote was some how changed???????? could this be a conspiracy against all garage logic, common sense conservatives??????
    Original posters can also edit their posts. If the original poster edited after you cut and paste, you'd see a difference. Also, us mods typically will let you know when we edit or moderate something.

    Now, lets avoid turning this into a flame fest, and return to playing nice about war.
    "Growth is inevitable and desirable, but destruction of community character is not. The question is not whether your part of the world is going to change. The question is how." -- Edward T. McMahon, The Conservation Fund

  5. #30
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,627
    Blog entries
    3
    Originally posted by bturk
    Was it the flat feet or the missing testacles that kept you out of the military?


    Yellow card. Let's not get personal, folks.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  6. #31
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935
    Originally posted by Dan




    Yellow card. Let's not get personal, folks.
    HeeHee, yeah I can walk the 8 feet to his office if I want to.... this was just sooo much more fun.

  7. #32
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 1998
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,468
    Originally posted by bturk
    Let's send Lee Greenwood to Iraq. He can be the Pied Piper of a new era.

    I'm so sick of that damned "Proud to be an American" song....
    Hey!!! That song is putting his kids through college!
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  8. #33
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075

    I'd love to go again.

    Originally posted by Mastiff
    Send El Guapo with a rifle and a scope.
    They did once already.

    Dan - Do I get points for being nice in this thread?

  9. #34
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935

    Re: I'd love to go again.

    Originally posted by El Guapo


    They did once already.

    Dan - Do I get points for being nice in this thread?
    I give you points for staying ON TOPIC!

  10. #35
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075

    My take.

    Originally posted by jtfortin
    You comment about not finishing the job can be traced right back to President George Bush and current members of this administration that didn't finish the job in 1991 when they could have removed Saddam.
    That's a bit absurd - How many pinkos would have shat their pants if when we were through killing the Republican Guard we took a left and took out Bagdad? Can't have it both ways Mr.

    Folks: We are a target. Even the peaceniks are a target. Evil don't discriminate between Hawk and Dove. Its the body count that counts to these folks. We stand for things these people hate. We will wake up one day and an American or UK city will either be smoking or dead from some hell bug. Stephen King's first few chapters of the Stand are no long the stuff of speculation - these possibilities are real.

  11. #36
    Cyburbian prudence's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Purgatory (Mad-town)
    Posts
    675

    Military personnel...

    There is a long history of my immediate relatives serving their country during various wars / conflicts the US has been involved in this century... And I am pretty sure that one of my uncles has caused a couple conflicts (from his role with Ratheon) in the Middle East. He was sitting four seats from Anwar Sadat when he was shot...it seems everytime my uncle would leave a country and war would erupt: Saudi, Lebannon, Israel, Kuwait, Iran, Iraq...

    WWI - Great-grandfather
    WWII - Grandfather
    Korea - Great-Uncle
    Vietnam - Father / Uncle
    Any issue involving the US and the Middle East since 1970 - Uncle


    The military was NOT an option for me. The desire was for me to go to college.

    I am quite thankful and respectful of all those individuals who have served and FOUGHT for this Country. I will ALWAYS support the military to my fullest ability.
    "Dear Prudence...won't you open up your eyes? "

  12. #37
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075

    Re: Military personnel...

    Originally posted by prudence
    The military was NOT an option for me. The desire was for me to go to college.
    For me and many others it was the morgage of our lives to the military that paid for our college. I am the third generation to get an education as a result of service. As a veteran I don't believe you have to have served in the military to have a valid opinion one way or the other on this issue. But I do believe you should have your facts straight and have given this issue serious consideration. Disagreeing with the government is your right and your duty.

    Moving on....America has almost always taken the sucker punch in history and then reacted. Since the Russians developed the H-Bomb the potenial sucker punch has had the posibility of being fatal.

    On September 10, 2001 we never thought they could take four planes and kill 21/2 targets and 3000 people. What if the next strike is an order or two of magnitude above the last? How many nukes are the Russians, Kazikstanis and Chechians missing? Don't know do you? They are not going to tell you about 100 nukes are missing - not presumed destoyed. What if it is 16 planes with 16 nukes hitting 16 American cities? Would America as we know it know survive? I don't think so. We would then be in the dust pan of history and so would more than 15 Million people is my guess and all the weak counties would have to live in a neighborhood with out a cop.

    We have to hunt the hunters.

  13. #38
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Mr. Cool Ice
    Posts
    4,161
    Ah the old Russian Nuke stories. Learned all about that one when I was in NBC school. What people don't realize when they say "How can a nuke be missing" is that these aren't the 10 or 20 megaton jobbies, the ones on trailers. These are the 1 megaton manpacks that are missing. Not enough firepower to probably take out a city block, but big enough to cause fear and panic like none of us have ever witnessed before. These things are bad, and the scary thing is, one of these bad boys is going to go off in some major US city soon.

    Also a little tid bit I learned in NBC school. Stay away from the public buffets. Like the kind out Taco Bell, Old Country Buffett, you know the type. Pretty easy way to introduce a biological agent into the public.

  14. #39
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075
    1 megaton in Oakland Fl - A town we all love and have gotten to know this last year -but hardly on anyone's terror list.

    12 psi Radius: 1.7 miles
    [Note: The outside edge of this shaded area represents the 12 psi (pound per square inch) ring. Blast pressure within the ring is greater than 12 psi; blast pressure outside the ring is less than 12 psi.]
    At the center of the ring lies a crater 200 feet deep and 1000 feet in diameter. The rim of this crater is 1,000 feet wide and is composed of highly radioactive soil and debris. Nothing recognizable remains within about 3,200 feet (0.6 miles) from the center, except, perhaps, the remains of some buildings' foundations. At 1.7 miles, only some of the strongest buildings -- those made of reinforced, poured concrete -- are still standing. Ninety-eight percent of the population in this area are dead.
    5 psi Radius: 2.7 miles
    Virtually everything is destroyed between the 12 and 5 psi rings. The walls of typical multi-story buildings, including apartment buildings, have been completely blown out. The bare, structural skeletons of more and more buildings rise above the debris as you approach the 5 psi ring. Single-family residences within this this area have been completely blown away -- only their foundations remain. Fifty percent of the population between the 12 and 5 psi rings are dead. Forty percent are injured.
    2 psi Radius: 4.7 miles
    Any single-family residences that have not been completely destroyed are heavily damaged. The windows of office buildings have been blown away, as have some of their walls. The contents of these buildings' upper floors, including the people who were working there, are scattered on the street. A substantial amount of debris clutters the entire area. Five percent of the population between the 5 and 2 psi rings are dead. Forty-five percent are injured.
    1 psi Radius: 7.4 miles
    Residences are moderately damaged. Commercial buildings have sustained minimal damage. Twenty-five percent of the population between the 2 and 1 psi rings have been injured, mainly by flying glass and debris. Many others have been injured from thermal radiation -- the heat generated by the blast. The remaining seventy-five percent are unhurt.


    NOTE: This information has been drawn mainly from "The Effects of Nuclear War" (Washington: Office of Technology Assessment, Congress of the United States, 1979). The zones of destruction mapped out on this page are broad generalizations and do not take into account factors such as weather and geography of the target.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sf...mapablast.html

    In reality a demo nuke as you refer to has a far lower yield.

  15. #40
    Cyburbian Tom R's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Akron
    Posts
    2,255

    W

    This "Trust me" BS is too much like LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin incident which resulted in giving me a year-long paid tour of sunny southeast Asia. Excuse me if I'm distrustful of the pres and synical, but I am. When you consider war be comitted to accept and justify a lot of body bags. The US has been both skillful and lucky in its last several military "excursions" and I credit this to Colin Powel who apparantly learned his lesson. I hope both skill and luck hold out. Just make sure the loss of all the people you're putting at risk is worth it.

  16. #41
    Cyburbian Runner's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    566
    The military was NOT an option for me. The desire was for me to go to college.
    They're not mutually exclusive, many of us did both...

    I will ALWAYS support the military to my fullest ability.
    But you're support is appreciated none the less.
    Cheers,
    UrbanRunner
    :)
    _____________________________
    WWJJD
    "What Would Jane Jacobs Do?"

  17. #42
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075

    Parsing the sentence

    Supporting the military and supporting W's foreign policy are two completely different things and should remain seperate points of debate. I just wish people like Mr. & Mrs. Susan Sarandon knew that.

    Woody Harrelson Sucks! ha ha ha

  18. #43
    Cyburbian prudence's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Purgatory (Mad-town)
    Posts
    675
    Originally posted by Runner

    They're not mutually exclusive, many of us did both...

    My family did not want me to follow in their footsteps (not that I was necessarily looking to do so)...and the call to play a collegiate sport was too great for me to ignore...

    I believe that while you may not agree with a specific course of foriegn policy decision, you should support those involved in the action resulting from the decision. Soldiers follow orders. Criticize the decision-makeres, but support the men and women who must carry out the decisions made.
    "Dear Prudence...won't you open up your eyes? "

  19. #44
    Cyburbian Habanero's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,662
    Prudence? You played Dutch Women's Rugby?


    WOW!
    When Jesus said "love your enemies", he probably didn't mean kill them.

  20. #45
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935
    Originally posted by TexasPlanner
    Prudence? You played Dutch Women's Rugby?


    WOW!
    Oh gawd, I wish I had photoshop! nerudite, nhplanner, EG! A little help?

  21. #46
    Cyburbian prudence's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Purgatory (Mad-town)
    Posts
    675
    Originally posted by TexasPlanner
    Prudence? You played Dutch Women's Rugby?


    WOW!

    For two days...until I saw that my teammates needed a jock more than I did...
    "Dear Prudence...won't you open up your eyes? "

  22. #47
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935
    Originally posted by prudence

    For two days...until I saw that my teammates needed a jock more than I did...
    Dan - see? That supports (no pun intended) the post I did earlier in reference to the cojones....

    Not that there's anything wrong with that.

  23. #48
    Cyburbian Habanero's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,662

    I get no points for this-

    When Jesus said "love your enemies", he probably didn't mean kill them.

  24. #49
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075

    The Horror

    Off-topic:
    Yeah - What if Sadam got ahold of Dutch Women' Rugby or DWR as Dick Cheney says?


    "An errand boy, sent by the grocery clerk, to collect the bill"

  25. #50
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Mr. Cool Ice
    Posts
    4,161
    Originally posted by prudence



    My family did not want me to follow in their footsteps (not that I was necessarily looking to do so)...and the call to play a collegiate sport was too great for me to ignore...

    I did the Marine Corps, College, Nationally-ranked college rugby team, and the Marine Corps rugby team. All at once. It was alot though.

    Prudence, there is no need to make excuses for not going into the military. You chose not too, I as well as most, will not look down at you. Quite frankly, I think the military would be better off without those who didn't want to be there. All they do is cause problems, get people hurt, etc.

+ Reply to thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

More at Cyburbia

  1. Hi from Iraq
    Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 5
    Last post: 09 Jan 2008, 12:17 PM
  2. What if the US never invaded Iraq???
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 25
    Last post: 11 Jun 2007, 1:10 PM
  3. Iraq needs you - Donate now!
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 1
    Last post: 22 Sep 2005, 1:29 PM
  4. My brother going to Iraq
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 24
    Last post: 20 Apr 2004, 10:03 AM
  5. Iraq War - One Year In
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 32
    Last post: 23 Mar 2004, 12:20 PM