Urban planning community

Closed thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst ... 2 3
Results 51 to 70 of 70

Thread: Looking for a new Suit

  1. #51
    Cyburbian JNL's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    2,447
    Quote Originally posted by The One
    Don't those of you "Down Under" just go to Singapore for a weekend every year to buy clothes at deeply discounted prices???
    I don't know if I have missed the joke or something, but I've never heard of anyone doing what you describe.

  2. #52
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
    Registered
    Sep 1999
    Location
    400 miles from Orlando
    Posts
    13,837
    Quote Originally posted by JNL
    I don't know if I have missed the joke or something, but I've never heard of anyone doing what you describe.
    Maybe it's like when I went to college up north, and everyone assumed we didn't have malls "down there", in the South, and that maybe we flew to NY every year to buy clothes. Duh. Honest, that's what they thought. Beyond that, I had a friend (now deceased) who had all her clothes made in the Philippines (where she was from, so much cheaper). Maybe that's where The One is going.

  3. #53
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
    Registered
    May 2004
    Location
    Snarkville
    Posts
    6,593
    Who knew a new suit would be so controversial

  4. #54
    Cyburbian chukky's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally posted by JNL
    I don't know if I have missed the joke or something, but I've never heard of anyone doing what you describe.

    It's not uncommon, anyone who regularly travels through Singpore or Hong Kong for business - and its hard to get anywhere without going through Singapore or Hong Kong - will probably get some shirts made. Shirts would be the most common thing, but I'm sure suits are done as well, and I know one woman who has her jewellery made in Singapore, becuase she regularly flies to Europe, and picks it up on the way.

    "Going shopping overseas" is incredibly popular in Perth, mainly becasue it is like a two hour flight to Bali from Perth, and six to anywhere over here on the east coast.

    ANd though I dont know anyone who has been on them, my local travel agent is contantly advitising "shopping Hoildays" to singapore, indonesia, hong Kong.

    Maybe its an australian thing, rather than an NZ.

  5. #55
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Packing to move out of the icebox.
    Posts
    13,631
    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN
    Michaelskis, I'll join you at the wedding. Don't worry, we'll fit right in. I'll take care of the Tux. Baby Blue seems flattering on you I presume...

    NOW that is what I am looking for! Is there a top hat and a cane with that?

    Off-topic:
    I am impressed with how we are now discussing how society regulates particular clothing styles based on status. I think that there is a time and place for everything, even clothing styles. For example, a lawyer would not show up to court in cut off shorts and an AC/DC t-shirt, but then again, he would not go to the beach, garden, mow the lawn, clean the house, grill burgers, play or watch foot ball with the guys, brew beer, or go to the gym in a suit. I guess the point that I am trying to make is a bohemian in a suit is still a bohemian, and a lawyer in shorts is still a lawyer. Some say that clothes make the man, but I think that the situation makes the clothes.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  6. #56
    "Beware events that require new clothes, weddings, funerals ... " H. D. Thoreau.

    I don't own a suit and don't plan to buy one any time soon. Cotton khakis and oxfords are fine with me. After I hit the Powerball tomorrow, I might go 'Hef' on y'all.
    Je suis Charlie

  7. #57
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Antarctica
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally posted by Gedunker
    "Beware events that require new clothes, weddings, funerals ... " H. D. Thoreau.
    This gets right to what I take issue with. HDT was a source of inspiration for both Gandhi(famously underdressed!) and MLK.

    Gonna try to recreate what was lost.

    BKM said my arguments are getting more and more ridiculous. I was tooting the horn of Thoreau. He asked for proof of influence of HDT upon Gandhi and King. Here is a link: http://www.csustan.edu/english/reuben/pal/chap4/thoreau.html


    Then I said no one has yet answered to my contention that there is a connection between Chinese footbinding and today's high heels.

    Michele Zone responded to saying something to the effect that footbinding was done to strengthen pelvic muscles to increase sexual pleasure for the male. I responded to this by saying according to the wikipedia article on the subject, that is true, but footbinding was also done for the sake of making women more dependent upon men. It was a status symbol, signifying the man was wealthy enough to have a wife who was incapable of working.

    I further elaborated upon this by duly noting that both footbinding and high heels make women less mobile. Because it is difficult to do hard work wearing high heels, they symbolize a woman who either does office work or doesn't have to work at all because she has a wealthy husband. Or they symbolize her desire to attract a man who is wealthy enough to support her financially.

    These discussions are all relevant to the thread topic because they are all corresponding forms of dress that go along with the wearing of a suit.

    My overarching point was that females became liberated in the 20th century. But males are still oppressed - not by females, but by themselves. My aim in this thread is to challenge men face up to the ways in which we should evolve in response to the fact that - thank god, women are now part of the labor force too. I'm not gonna spend my life being a breadwinner or a soldier and die 6 years sooner than the average female as most men do. Feminism is great. Masculism has good points too, but what we really need is gender egalitarianism.

    Sue me if you think I'm a freak. People should be able to wear what they want to wear. Why should my business wardrobe as a male, be limited to drab colored suits and a tiny piece of colorful fabric that chokes me? Of course I don't have anything as appealing as breasts upon my chest, but is that any reason that I should choke? How can people fail to see that the suit and tie is a mediphor for the emotional constriction that males are socialized into? Males have just as much emotional sensitivity as women, but society has convinced most males to kill this within themselves. The tie is just a brightly colored tombstone for that which was once alive.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 04 Oct 2005 at 10:48 AM.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  8. #58

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468
    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    Of course I don't have anything as appealing as breasts upon my chest, but is that any reason that I should choke? . . . Males have just as much emotional sensitivity as women, but society has convinced most males to kill this within themselves. The tie is just a brightly colored tombstone for that which was once alive.
    The one other comment that was lost in the crash was: Maybe you should get a shirt with bigger collars, or at least tie your nooses a little less tightly

    As for the tie as a brightly colored tombstone metaphor. Wow. That's all I can say. Was that written while wearing a tie, perhaps.

  9. #59
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Antarctica
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally posted by BKM
    The one other comment that was lost in the crash was: Maybe you should get a shirt with bigger collars, or at least tie your nooses a little less tightly

    As for the tie as a brightly colored tombstone metaphor. Wow. That's all I can say. Was that written while wearing a tie, perhaps.
    The problem with bigger collars tends to be that then the shirt is sized for a much bigger person. Certainly, undoing the top botton alone, makes a huge difference.

    As for the mediphor, I'm afraid I came up with it sitting comfortably at home in jeans and a t-shirt, with too much free time on my hands, in-between temp jobs at the moment.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  10. #60
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Like with BKM, you kind of butchered my comments. Part of what I said (that you conveniently ignored) was that I REALLY did not want to argue it and had, therefore, refrained from posting my comments a couple of days earlier. I still don't want to argue it. You know little about fashion from an anthropological point of view and apparently even less about gruesome cultural customs like footbinding, which is more comparable to "female circumcision" than to high heels, due to the brutal manner in which it mutilates little girls physically and psychologically, so that when they grow up to be women, they have little to no hope of ever escaping their chattel status (which is undoubtedly why some folks take offense at the comparison between footbinding and high heels). I tried on a previous occasion to give you information which you apparently lacked about the social meaning of formal attire and that apparently did no good. I have grown rather tired of your pseudo-intellectual attempts to justify your personal preferences in clothing. Additionally, I feel it was inappropriate to revive a dead thread to continue a threadjacking. So I hope the mods simply close the thread.

  11. #61
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Antarctica
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    Like with BKM, you kind of butchered my comments. Part of what I said (that you conveniently ignored) was that I REALLY did not want to argue it and had, therefore, refrained from posting my comments a couple of days earlier. I still don't want to argue it. You know little about fashion from an anthropological point of view and apparently even less about gruesome cultural customs like footbinding, which is more comparable to "female circumcision" than to high heels, due to the brutal manner in which it mutilates little girls physically and psychologically, so that when they grow up to be women, they have little to no hope of ever escaping their chattel status (which is undoubtedly why some folks take offense at the comparison between footbinding and high heels). I tried on a previous occasion to give you information which you apparently lacked about the social meaning of formal attire and that apparently did no good. I have grown rather tired of your pseudo-intellectual attempts to justify your personal preferences in clothing. Additionally, I feel it was inappropriate to revive a dead thread to continue a threadjacking. So I hope the mods simply close the thread.
    [My original response here was deleted but I have attempted to recall it]

    If you don't want people to respond to your comments, why post in the first place? I apologize for not having fully elucidated your lost post verbatim - didn't think that was my job.

    You know little about fashion from an anthropological point of view
    sheesh. Can't we just have a discussion without hurling negative personal comments at each other?

    I agree female circumcision is barbaric, just like footbinding. But do you deny that high heels and footbinding, hinder a woman's mobility?

    My contention is that high heels hinder a woman's ability to work in much the same way footbinding did, albeit less extremely so. High heels announce that a woman either doesn't have to do real work for a living/has a breadwinning husband, or serve to attract a man who will support her financially. Both high heels and foobinding are status symbols, that limit mobility and make women more dependent on men.

    This thread hadn't died yet, and I don't think I was threadjacking it. M'skis expressed agreement with most of my points. There is a Native American saying, that everything is connected. I like to think holistically. To me, thread topics aren't dictionary entries. When I saw the thread topic: "A New Suit", my associations are: male dress clothes, formal wear in general, and the gender roles that dictate and are dictated by gender based costumes. The topic of a new suit, is just the surface manifestation of broader cultural norms that are quite arbitrarily defined. It we're going to discuss a tree, why not discuss the forest in which it grows as well.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  12. #62
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    You know little about fashion from an anthropological point of view
    sheesh. Can't we just have a discussion without hurling negative personal comments at each other?
    I don't see where that's a negative personal comment. I think it is an objective observation, like saying that I don't know much about physics. Because I don't know much about physics, if Archernar or someone else here who knows a good deal about the topic rebutts my comments on the topic, I defer to their greater knowledge.

    And I did refrain from replying at all in this thread for a couple of days because I did not want to get dragged into it. And I do regret saying anything at all. Because now, out of politeness, I feel compelled to reply yet again when I really don't want to argue with you. Also, your accusation that I don't want anyone to respond to my comments is wrong. I don't want to be attacked. I don't want someone picking a fight with me. I don't want someone to try to paint me into a corner. And so forth.

  13. #63
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Antarctica
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    I don't see where that's a negative personal comment. I think it is an objective observation, like saying that I don't know much about physics. Because I don't know much about physics, if Archernar or someone else here who knows a good deal about the topic rebutts my comments on the topic, I defer to their greater knowledge.

    And I did refrain from replying at all in this thread for a couple of days because I did not want to get dragged into it. And I do regret saying anything at all. Because now, out of politeness, I feel compelled to reply yet again when I really don't want to argue with you. Also, your accusation that I don't want anyone to respond to my comments is wrong. I don't want to be attacked. I don't want someone picking a fight with me. I don't want someone to try to paint me into a corner. And so forth.
    But do you deny that high heels and footbinding, hinder a woman's mobility?
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  14. #64
    Cyburbian chukky's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Posts
    363
    1. So men wear restrictive clothing to be superior, and say, I am better then you. But when a woman wears restrictive clothing, she is saying "help I need you Mr. to protect me. Huh?

    2. Why, when you works in an office, is there any point for you to wear clothes that allow you to get my hands dirty. You've commented a few times (I think), about how one cant work in a factory in a suit. So? Why would one need to?

    3.
    So it doesn't matter to me how someone dresses, but if someone has a problem with my disregard for fashion conventions then my problem with them is with their intolerance for my tolerance.
    Isnt that kind of a oxymoron? You have your beliefs, which are tolerant, but have no tolerance for those of others? Isnt that just as intolerant?

  15. #65
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Antarctica
    Posts
    1,003
    1. So men wear restrictive clothing to be superior, and say, I am better then you. But when a woman wears restrictive clothing, she is saying "help I need you Mr. to protect me. Huh?
    Well chukky:

    1. Male formal wear is all about emphasizing hierarchical relationships. Female clothes do this too, but because females only entered the wage labor market in about the last hundred years or so, there wasn't a set blueprint for how they should dress, so the dress code has been more flexible and rapidly evolving for them. It isn't about protection. It's about economic dependence. High heels are impractical in any context.

    Basically the male costume says I am a responsible, emotionally under control breadwinner. The main discomfort centers around the tie which serves as a constant reminder to keep your emotions bottled up inside. The main discomfort of the female costume centers around the feet where high heels limit mobility. Her costume isn't saying "help, I need you", it's saying "do you have the money to get with a woman like me?"

    2. Why, when you works in an office, is there any point for you to wear clothes that allow you to get my hands dirty. You've commented a few times (I think), about how one cant work in a factory in a suit. So? Why would one need to?
    2. First of all, you're glossing over the fact that formal wear exacerbates class relations. The absurdity of a white dress shirt just screams, "I can't be bothered to do anything that involves the possibility of sweating." Of course there's no need to wear a suit in a factory. I would ask, "Why is there any need to wear such uncomfortable, inpractical, expensive clothing such as a suit, to work in an office?" I would answer this by saying, because it reminds the lower classes who do menial labor, who is more privileged, and thus serves to separate white collar pawns and blue collar pawns from uniting against their common oppressor. Divide and conquer. The suit announces to the world, "I am so important and have so much money and know all the right people that I can dress in clothes that symbolize my ability to rely on money to pay someone else to do everything for me. The workers at the sub shop who make your lunch (so you don't have to get messy), the immigrant run dry cleaning business you pick up your shirts from, the greasy mechanic who keeps your car running, and the AC in your car that keeps you from sweating even when wearing a suit with 90 degree temperatures outside, etc. etc. Of course this is only true for a few people at the top, but the rest of the office herd is forced to kowtow to the fashion hierarchy anyway, even if their maxing out their credit cards to pay for their car and to "look" like they've got it made.

    3.
    by dobopoq: So it doesn't matter to me how someone dresses, but if someone has a problem with my disregard for fashion conventions then my problem with them is with their intolerance for my tolerance.
    Isnt that kind of a oxymoron? You have your beliefs, which are tolerant, but have no tolerance for those of others? Isnt that just as intolerant?
    3. You're missunderstanding my words here. I'm basically taking the same argument here that most free countries take toward free speech, which is: We all have the right to freedom of expression, but if one person's expression of that freedom begins to impinge upon the rights of another, then they have taken it too far. The KKK has the right to march peacefully, but because their message is racist and anti-semitic (encouraging their members to trample the rights of Blacks and Jews), they are ignored by mainstream media.

    I don't have a problem if people want to wear dress clothes to the office, and I don't have a problem if people don't want to wear dress clothes. So why am I expected to wear dress clothes to the office? I'm not forcing anyone to dress a certain way, so why should I be forced to dress a certain way. If the beliefs of others dictate I dress a certain way, that's not tolerance, it's oppression. Competitive fashion with $500+ tailored suits is a far cry from the role that a uniform plays in the military or a fast food restaurant. So please don't say it's just a uniform. It's a lot more oppressive than just a chef's uniform, or a nurse's uniform. It's all about emphasing differences of class, prestige, status, hierarchy, and yes, gender too.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  16. #66
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2003
    Location
    at the neighboring pub
    Posts
    5,540
    Can someone please explain to me how M'skis simple question about buying a suit turned into a debate over the merits of footbinding?

    He had already decided to buy a suit, so there was no need for a debate about the merits of buying a suit and what that symbolizes. He was simply looking for advice on style and where to find them. Because of this, I will not interject my opinion here, though I do have one.

    On a helpful note to dobopoq regarding shirts:
    You need to have yourself properly measured for shirts. Buying based on small, medium, large will not cut it, especially if the shirt is not fitted. Buying non-fitted shirts often results in a shirt that has far more body than you really need, making you look kind of poofy. I have a very large neck compared to my body (17.5 inch neck with 44L jacket). It is difficult to find a 17.5 neck size with a 34/35 sleeve length, but it can be done. Look for the "fitted" shirt styles. You don't need to spend a lot of money either; the one I'm wearing right now was on sale for $15 at JC Penney.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  17. #67
         
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    3,519
    I do not want to get dragged into any of this argument other than to say that I completely disagree that high heels are in any way related to footbinding. I wear high heels ALL the time, work and play. I am comfortable in them and do not see them "saying" anything about myself or my relationship to men. I wear them because I like them, not because society tells me. I also wear high heels to work and I do not sit around the office all day long; I am often out at construction sites, walking through mud, dirt, into half built structures, often two or three floors up.
    So while I do not have much of an opinion on mens suits, I would like to clarify that there is one woman out here that strongly disagrees with the notion that high heels have anything to do with personality, work ethic, or hinder my mobility. (not being ridiculous, no, I do not wear heels to work out or hike, but I do wear them at any other givin time) and yes I can run in them.

  18. #68
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where Valley Fever Lives
    Posts
    7,554
    Blog entries
    1

    Yup....

    Quote Originally posted by chukky
    It's not uncommon, anyone who regularly travels through Singpore or Hong Kong for business - and its hard to get anywhere without going through Singapore or Hong Kong - will probably get some shirts made. Shirts would be the most common thing, but I'm sure suits are done as well, and I know one woman who has her jewellery made in Singapore, becuase she regularly flies to Europe, and picks it up on the way.

    "Going shopping overseas" is incredibly popular in Perth, mainly becasue it is like a two hour flight to Bali from Perth, and six to anywhere over here on the east coast.

    ANd though I dont know anyone who has been on them, my local travel agent is contantly advitising "shopping Hoildays" to singapore, indonesia, hong Kong.

    Maybe its an australian thing, rather than an NZ.
    BINGO! This is what I was thinking about....we don't really have the same thing going on here in the Western Hemisphere, we can't just jump a plane to Caracas for shopping and suits....at least I've never heard of it being done.....
    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
    John Kenneth Galbraith

  19. #69
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    1,584
    I thought this was about a suit.

  20. #70
    Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator NHPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 1996
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,720
    Moderator note:
    We're waaaayyyy off the OP's topic.

    Thread closed.
    "Growth is inevitable and desirable, but destruction of community character is not. The question is not whether your part of the world is going to change. The question is how." -- Edward T. McMahon, The Conservation Fund

Closed thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst ... 2 3

More at Cyburbia

  1. Replies: 22
    Last post: 11 Dec 2012, 1:43 PM
  2. Replies: 32
    Last post: 09 Oct 2012, 7:58 PM
  3. Replies: 44
    Last post: 14 Jun 2011, 9:08 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last post: 22 Jan 2006, 6:40 AM
  5. My proposal for a counter suit-
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 0
    Last post: 22 Nov 2002, 3:35 PM