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Thread: Gated Comunities - looking for Chatgroup

  1. #1

    Gated Comunities - looking for Chatgroup

    I am looking for Chatgroup on Gated Communities.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Emeritus Perry Norton's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
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    89

    Gated Comunities - looking for Chatgroup

    You can check out the people here.
    Got questions, ideas, thought?

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Earl Finkler's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Barrow, Alaska
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    190

    Gated Comunities --A Planning Tragedy?

    Hi again

    I see Gated Communities posts back to March of this year, but the earlier ones are gone. You could check with Perry to see if they still exist somewhere. But also, if you keep the discussion going now, and make it clear what you need, I'm sure the fine people who post here can help you a lot.
    Best wishes

    Earl Finkler

  4. #4
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Mar 1996
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    Upstate New York
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    Old messages

    A few weeks ago, I cleared out a lot of older messages, where the threads stopped some time ago. If I didn't clear out messages from time to time, loading time on the main Perry's Cantina page would get unreasonably long.

    I'm looking at Web-based bulletin board software that allows archiving and better thread management, but that means all messages in the existing areas would be lost -- we'd be starting from scratch.

  5. #5

    Gated Comunities --A Planning Tragedy?

    In response to: Gated Comunities --A Planning Tragedy? posted by Daniel Zack on 20 May 1999 at 17:19:32:


    "Gated Communities" make me sick.

    They may be gated, but they certainly aren't communities. I don't see how turning your back on the rest of society and locking yourself in a fortress is "communitiy." Community implies socializing to me, and gated communities are just the opposite: anti-social.

    I lived in one for two years and I can tell you right now that it was not by any means a community. I now live in an old 1920s inner suburb of moderate densities, mixed uses, mixed housing types, tree-lined streets with sidewalks, and a neighborhood core with shops, restaurants, and entertainment galore. THAT is a community. People walk, hang out on their porches, and acutally socialize with each other. Nor do they lock out the outside world. It is a much more invigorating place to live.

    Not only that, but my old gated community wasn't even safer! More cars were stolen there than in my current neighborhood, even though my current neighborhood isn't on the "best" side of town and the GC was on the suburban fringe.

    Hopefully this phase in our history will be short-lived. Since gated communities are almost always low-density, single use auto-dependant garbage, when gas proces go up, due to Y2K computer problems (see James Howard Kunstler's home page www.kunstler.com), some maniacle two-bit dictator, or a genuine shortage (let's not forget that it is an exhaustable reshource) the trend will probably be forced to an end.

    For a very thorough look at the disgusting living arrangement of "gated communities", see the book "Fortress America." You can order it through the APA Planner's Book Service at 312 431-9100.

    Sincerey,

    Dan Zack
    Fresno, California
    I am trying to figure out where these threads start but I'll jump in anyway. There seems to be so much emotion around the fact that some people want to put up a wall around their home and hope it keeps out unwanted visitors. That does not mean that these people never venture out into the world and come in contact with all the social and economic problems the gentleman mentioned earlier. However, I doubt if people in any single family subdivision look upon themselves as the solvers of the world's social problems. Whether there is a gate or not, no one wants crime, sex offenders, people who think parking their junk car on the lawn makes an artistic statement or all the other types of frustrations we all live with. Railing against gated communities is fruitless if developers continue to develop property and add gates as a marketing tool. It started with swimming pools and tennis courts to attract people and now it is a gate or a wall. Most people buy a house because they like how it looks and don't care if it is in a gated community. So don't get so angry at them. The other point I want to make is that middle income families do live in gated communities, at least in San Antonio. My son just bought a $107,000 home in a small gated community and he and his wife love it. I had warned him of all the drawbacks but he liked the area and the builder. I have been working with mandatory membership community associations for twenty years so I speak from experience. I personally hate the gates because they are always broken which causes me more work, especially at night when I get a call that the gate is stuck shut. You are right about them not being secure. They are really limited access mechanisms. No one can offer security to anyone, least of all behind a wall any kid with an orange crate can climb over. I would like to hear from others who are concerned with the financial and maintenance aspects of these communities when the roads start to fail and the owners haven't saved the thousands of dollars they will need to replace the surfaces or put in new electronic systems for the gates. They will be looking for that developer or builder who sold them the house and trying to get him or her to fix it. Guess what! No warranty on anything to the HOA since the developer put everything in. We have over 175 gated communities in San Antonio and its extraterritorial jurisdiction with the numbers increasing daily. Are we having fun yet? You bet!!!!

  6. #6

    Gated Comunities --A Planning Tragedy?

    Lots of good points in Dee MGee's posting, but I think all of them tend to support the argument that gated communities aren't a good idea.

    It's true that some of us (me included) get over-emotional about gated communities, and we should all remember that the people who choose to live in them are not a bunch of trogdolytes who want to cut themselves off from society. But in fact, this type of development has exactly that effect, even if it is unintended. And it started long before the developers included security gates in the package.

    It is really a question of public vs. private investment in community facilities and services. The people in the planned community with their own swimming pool aren't likely to support a bond issue to build a new municipal pool--why should they? And since they have a private playground, the detioration of city parks doesn't much concern them. (They can't afford higher taxes--they have to pay those dues to the homeowner's association.) And finally they get a wall and private guards, so even a larger, better-paid police force doesn't interest them. They may all be well-meaning folks who just wanted a decent home for themselves, but the nature of gated communities is to separate society into "us" and "them," and that is very detrimental in the long run.

    And as Dee points out, after the developer has split and the homeowner's association is responsible for everything, they may find that it is more than they can handle. There is a lot to be said for tax-supported public facilities, and it's time for planners to start saying it!

    Come to think of it, I stick by my original over-emotional statement: planners and architects who help build these damned things ought to be de-frocked.

  7. #7

    Gated Comunities --A Planning Tragedy?

    P.S. Though Dee didn't mention it, I'll bet that the residents of developments with financial problems are looking to local government to bail them out. Maybe this would be an opportunity to make those pools public, and to take down those damned gates.

  8. #8

    Gated Comunities --A Planning Tragedy?

    Amen! More words of wisedom from Jeffery Scott!

    It all seems like fun and games until you have to resurface the roads, doesn't it?

    Another problem with gated communities: because there is only one entrance in and out, and because they are almost exclusively residential in use, these areas add to auto dependance and traffic congestion. The gated development that I lived in was located geographically close to a shopping center, but I had to hop walls just to make the walk short enough to be worth my while. If I had zigged and zagged through all of the stupid curving dead end streets to the gate, it would have
    taken me twenty minutes to get there. Who wants to do that?

    One of the biggest challenges of the 21st century is going to be retrofitting our suburbs to provide for easy access. With super blocks, cul-de-sacs, and now walls blocking just about every path, we will have a very difficult time laying out a decent grid of streets and blocks over this mess. It may be impossible.

    But what's the alternative? Vehicle Miles Travelled is rising at 4 times the rate of population growth, and our air isn't getting any cleaner. The oil is running out, and CNG and solar aren't as cheap, reliable, and readily available as gasoline. Congestion has gotten so bad in Atlanta that property values are falling major corporations are considering leaving. Check out www.cityandstate.com/5atlanta.htm for more info.

    The auto system is not sustainable, and its results over a long period of time are anything but desirable. The empty country roads that we see on car commercials are not what we experience every day on the freeways.

    Pedestian activity has to become the dominant transportation mode, and it never will if people have to walk 2 miles and jump walls to get to something 1/4 of a mile away!!

    By the way, if people walked more, the "dangers" of the city that people are trying to escape to behind the gates would be lessened because of the "eyes on the street." By retreating further, we are only making things worse.

    Thanks for the stimulating dialogue and the opportunity to rant and rave.

    Dan

  9. #9

    Gated Comunities - looking for Chatgroup

    I am also looking for a chat group on the subject of gated communities but I do not want to talk about the Blakeley book any more!!!!!! I think it is very rough around the edges, speaking from personal experience with gated communties.


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