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Thread: Mixed use in residential areas [Temp 1]

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    Cyburbian jmf's avatar
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    Mixed use in residential areas [Temp 1]

    We are getting more and more applications for mixed use developments. Usually, based on the demographics of the town, these are aimed at retirees so include apartments/townhouses and commercial uses such as convenience stores, drug stores, doctors offices, restaurants (where residents may get some or all of their meals) hairdressers/barbers....

    As part of our strategy and by-law review we are looking at allowing these through development agreement (a contract between the Town and the developer) in commercial and residential designations.

    The question which has been raised is how to limit the amount of commercial space in mixed use developments in residential areas, where, ideally we woud prefer more residential and only a little commercial. ....a certain square footage per unit?? if so how much?

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    JMF - This is the link to our TND ordinance. I hope it helps. We limit the retail to 25%


    http://www.ci.muskego.wi.us/municode/Chptr39.pdf

  3. #3

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    In our "CM" (Commercial Mixed) Zoning District, we limit retail sales:

    * To "ancillary" or "accessory" uses in association with a primary use, as long as these uses don't exceed 1,000 square feet.

    These uses are conditionally allowed as primary uses in a tenant space if the commercial uses (including ancillary uses) do not exceed 33% of the building or 2,000 square feet, whichever is less; 2) food and beverage sales shall not exceed, in total, 1,000 square feet. Commercial uses must be located on the ground floor of the building.

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I wish they would change our ordinance to allow for it here. BUT NO... Council wants to keep everything separate, yet the ZHB almost always approves use variances with out the applicant showing any hardship.

    It is so backwards here.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

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    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Originally posted by Michaelskis@Sep 4 2003, 05:05 PM
    I wish they would change our ordinance to allow for it here. BUT NO... Council wants to keep everything separate, yet the ZHB almost always approves use variances with out the applicant showing any hardship.

    It is so backwards here.
    Another explanation why Reading is going to hell.

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Originally posted by The dork formerly known as Chet@Sep 4 2003, 01:57 PM

    Another explanation why Reading is going to hell.
    YES IT IS,

    But I have seen so many other places that Mix Use Zones are a great idea, and supported by the administration.

    Right now, one of the other planners, the CD director and the neighborhood manager are all out at what we call City Hall East. (It is the home office for a department store, and the owner of that department store kind of controls things in the city, because he is the richest man in town *But he does not live in Reading, or have any stores in Reading*

    He is playing sim-city with a real city.

    I will say that not EVERYTHING is bad here… we have some of the most beautiful architecture, and there is an overwhelming potential for this city to compete with hundreds of cities across America. But for that to happen, EVERYTHING has to change with the way the city operates, the viewpoint of the residents and the Latinos, the influence that other people have, and most importantly, the administration.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

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    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    We would limit it to "Neighborhood Commercial" scale, generally 2500 to 30000 s.f. and never over 75000. Limited to businesses serving the immediate area, such as laundromat, dry cleaner, grocery/convenience, hair salon, etc. No restaurants, specialty retail, or general merchandise stores.

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    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    BKM: Wow. Those are some of the best codes I've ever seen!

    Michaelskis: Isn't "playing sim city with real cities" the the job description of a planner?

    ZG: While I agree that, in automobile dependent areas, commerse in residential areas should be neighborhood services only, I don't see why you think restaurants should be excluded. Haven't you ever seen neighborhood bars, cafès and diners? Not only are they convenient, but they're also outstanding meeting places for residents. They can serve as a focal point for the community that fosters intercomunication.

    I've spent some time in a diner in North Park (a Chicago neighborood) known as "George's". When George retired, the neighborhood threw a retirement party for him.

    Neighborhood bars had the added benifit of allowing people to go out and drink without having to drive, which is obviously a good thing.
    Reality does not conform to your ideology.
    http://neighborhoods.chicago.il.us Photographs of Life in the Neighborhoods of Chicago
    http://hafd.org/~jordanb/ Pretentious Weblog.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Originally posted by jordanb@Sep 4 2003, 10:06 PM


    ZG: While I agree that, in automobile dependent areas, commerse in residential areas should be neighborhood services only, I don't see why you think restaurants should be excluded. Haven't you ever seen neighborhood bars, cafès and diners? Not only are they convenient, but they're also outstanding meeting places for residents. They can serve as a focal point for the community that fosters intercomunication.

    Good point. I agree! But we are a very small county will almost total build-out, so our mixed-use developments tend to be small. Restaurants are classified as permitted uses in "Community Commercial" areas, which serve a wider area. It is expected that the small developments we are getting will not support restaurant uses. If we had larger tracts of available land, I would absolutely argue for restaurants to be included.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Rem's avatar
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    We have the opposite problem, we have to put controls in place to ensure there is a commercial component. Residential is too easy to develop and sell quickly in our City, potentially leaving lengths of inactive street frontage and lost opportunities for longer term employment opportunities. We want 30% commercial as a minimum - provides for a ground floor comercial and two levels residential.

    You can view our controls at http://www.lakemac.com.au/ourcity/draftlep...ewDCP/index.htm

  11. #11
    Cyburbian jmf's avatar
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    Thanks everybody for the replies. I have 'borrowed' some ideas for our strategy.

    One clarification, in a lot of cases here the type of development we are getting is for "enriched housing" which seems to be a few steps below assisted living. In some ways I compare it to people who move into a hotel later in life. They have their own bedroom, bathroom, maybe a small sitting area and kitchen facilities but they get all of their meals at a main dining room. And like a hotel there are some other commercial amenities.

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