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Thread: Road crossings and golf course design

  1. #1
    Cyburbian pandersen's avatar
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    Road crossings and golf course design

    Hi all:
    Thought I might bounce this question off the collective planning "brain trust" out there in cyberspace.

    We have a fellow out here who wants to build a golf course with associated residential development out in the country (just outside a national park). Here's the challenge we're facing. The land the golf course its to be situated on lies on either side of a public road. The current design shows multiple road crossings between holes located on the front and back 9 (as opposed to one crossing between the front and back 9 holes. Complicating the design is the fact that due to existing scattered residential development along both sides of the road, the developer proposes to build the golf cart crossings in such a way that the exit point from each crossing does NOT lie immediately opposite the access point to the course on the opposite side of the road. In short, golf carts will be forced to travel some distance along a portion of the road allowance when crossing the road. Has anyone there seen this sort of design? How was the matter of unregistered vehicles (golf carts) traveling on a road right-of way handled?

    Anybody out there have experience with these issues. I realize a redesign of the course is in order such that only one road crossing would be built, but I'm curious how the matter of misaligned road crossings might best be handled. (see attached diagram below for the situation I'm trying to describe). I'm aware one solution might be to obligate the developer to build an underground road crossing (much like a large animal wildlife highway crossing), but I fear the cost may be prohibitive.

    Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails GOLF COURSE DESIGN.jpg  

  2. #2
    Cyburbian
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    I'm not sure golf carts are legal street cars in most states? I would tell the golf course the carts must stay on the golf course, with exception to a typical crossing. I would suggest they realign the holes and dig one or two crossings under the road, which could be fun dealing with the owners of the road if its not the City (State & County guidelines can get interesting when trying to create such passes). I live in a neighborhood which has multiple crossing undergrade, not only for golf carts but also in places for pedestrians. They work really well and make it a lot more walkable when crossing a 6 lane boulevard. The cost is an issue, but in my opinion it is the way to go. If this is a decent golf course with a country club I'd tend to think they'd have the $$$ to do it. Multiple crossing and golf carts running up and down the shoulder is not an acceptable solution in my book.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian JNL's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Vlaude
    Multiple crossing and golf carts running up and down the shoulder is not an acceptable solution in my book.
    I agree.

    Vlaude - do you have any pics of underground crossings in your area? I'm interested in the design - width, length, natural light etc.

    I know of a golf course divided in two by a state highway near here, that has been there for a long time. Traffic whizzes past at 100km/h. They only allow golfers to cross at one point, on foot, no carts. Sightlines are good for pedestrian (golfer) safety because the road is straight, allowing plenty of time to judge a suitable gap for crossing. And, the highway is only one lane in each direction. It's not ideal but I think it works okay for them - I haven't heard of any safety issues.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian
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    JNL, I don't have any but when I go out this afternoon I'll take a picture of a couple of them and post them for you...

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Your developer needs a better designer. Period. And they are out there.

    I have worked with golf courses that have cart paths crossing minor streets (mostly cul-de-sacs) with low trafic volumes. While it may be okay to have cart traffic cross a public road (perpendicular with autos having the right of way) it is not acceptable to have cart traffic on a public street.

    Think of this... most daytime golfers are casual bloke, they assume that the design is safe for them. The rest... well, two words.... BLUE HAIR. They have no clue that the course wasnt designed with their interests in mind.

    Golf is all about kicking back, not "stop look and listen before you cross the street...."

  6. #6
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Chet
    Think of this... most daytime golfers are casual bloke, they assume that the design is safe for them. The rest... well, two words.... BLUE HAIR. They have no clue that the course wasnt designed with their interests in mind.
    Should the BAC of some golfers be considered?

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    My girlfriend lives nearby a County run golf course. It crosses the road at one point, but does so in an underground tunnel. The road is slightly higher than the course in one spot and there is a metal or concrete archway underneath the road that a cart can pass through.
    @GigCityPlanner

  8. #8
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
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    In Wellesley, MA there are two golf cart crossings on a minor arterial. The roadway has "yield to golf cart" signs and painted crossings. Many (including myself) would often refuse to yield, as there is no legal requirement for motor vehicles to yield to golf carts (they are not pedestrians). Here is the area that I am referring to:

    Golf Cart Crossing.zip

  9. #9
    Cyburbian
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    JNL, here is a pic of one of the undergrad paths that is under a 6 land arterial. The developer put a little more money into it that required, but in my opinion it looks nice. I forgot my camera when I went out yesterday but I'll try to get you more pics... I'm sure there are some more online as well.

    http://www.apartments2go.com/IMG_2388.JPG

  10. #10
    Cyburbian pandersen's avatar
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    Thanks for replies...

    Hi all:
    Just a quick word of thanks to all who have replied thus far. Keep the replies coming. I'd be interested in seeing some more photos of some typical underground gold cart crossings (perhaps including the use of large diameter culverts.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian
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    Panderson, the link to the pic above actually is a large culvert, corrugated metal... Though it is hard to see in that pic with the stone trim. It is large enough for two carts to pass each. I'll try to get some more pics. Maybe some of my own!

  12. #12
    Cyburbian pandersen's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jmello
    In Wellesley, MA there are two golf cart crossings on a minor arterial. The roadway has "yield to golf cart" signs and painted crossings. Many (including myself) would often refuse to yield, as there is no legal requirement for motor vehicles to yield to golf carts (they are not pedestrians). Here is the area that I am referring to:

    Attachment 3476
    Can't read the file contained in the .zip Could you please convert the file to a gif or jpeg and then zip and upload it.

    Thanks in advance.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    There are many examples of underground crossings - three pop into my mind without too much thought - Rock Barn (Conover, NC), Stonebridge (Waxhaw, NC), and Isla Del Sol (St. Petersburg, FL), but there are so many examples any competent designer would know.

    Putting golf cars on a public road requires two things accroding to law - headlights and tail/brake lights. They are treated like scooters and most golf course golf carts do not have these. One way to get around this is to put a cart path adjacent to the road like a sidewalk.

    Like I said before, any competent designer knows how to treat this. It sounds like the developer is trying to keep costs down.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  14. #14
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by pandersen
    Can't read the file contained in the .zip Could you please convert the file to a gif or jpeg and then zip and upload it.
    It is a Google Earth place file, not an image. You need Google Earth to open it.

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