Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Trips generated by housing type?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian H's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2003
    Location
    MKS
    Posts
    2,847

    Trips generated by housing type?

    Does anyone have some quick figures for auto trips generated by housing type?
    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

  2. #2
    Member CosmicMojo's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2006
    Location
    I'm not sure where I am...or where I want to be
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally posted by H
    Does anyone have some quick figures for auto trips generated by housing type?
    ULI says:
    Weekday vehicle trip generation:
    SF-10
    Apartments-7
    Highrise apartments-4

    http://www.uli.org/AM/Template.cfm?S...entDisplay.cfm
    page 14
    they don't mention townhouse,
    might want to check the Institute of traffic Engineers website...

    This has more land uses:
    http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/Eng/p...tion_Rates.pdf
    quite a handy chart

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Rumpy Tunanator's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Intervention
    Posts
    4,475
    ITE Code 210 (SF)- Daily Rate (Avg. Rate per unit) 9.57. PM Peak Rate 1.01 per unit

    ITE Code 220(Apt.)- Daily Rate (Avg. Rate per unit) 6.72 PM Peak Rate 0.62

    ITE Code 230(TH, CO)- Daily Rate (Avg. Rate per unit) 5.86 PM Peak Rate 0.52

    ITE Code 240 (Mobile H)- Daily Rate (Avg. Rate per unit) 4.99 PM Peak Rate 0.59


    Of course sometimes its better to use the equation instead of the rate, but when using the equation for just one unit sometimes the trips generated are not realistic.

    FDOT has a cd out with a Trip Generation program application. Its called TIPS. PM me your email and I'll try to send it to you via email using winzip.
    A guy once told me, "Do not have any attachments, do not have anything in your life you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you spot the heat around the corner."


    Neil McCauley (Robert DeNiro): Heat 1995

  4. #4

    Trip generation

    I posted a trip generation spreadsheet recently that covers this. All you have to input is the # of housing types and it calculates it for you in a nice printout. The spreadsheet was from ITE's trip generation.
    Who's gonna re-invent the wheel today?

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2006
    Location
    beach, florida
    Posts
    2

    Needing help

    Quote Originally posted by ssnyderjr
    I posted a trip generation spreadsheet recently that covers this. All you have to input is the # of housing types and it calculates it for you in a nice printout. The spreadsheet was from ITE's trip generation.
    Is there anyway you would re-post or e-mail me your spreadsheet.

  6. #6
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Staff meeting
    Posts
    8,360
    Quote Originally posted by florida sailor
    Is there anyway you would re-post or e-mail me your spreadsheet.
    Use this link: trip generation spreadsheet thread
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  7. #7
    Thanks Mendel
    Who's gonna re-invent the wheel today?

  8. #8
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Staff meeting
    Posts
    8,360
    Quote Originally posted by ssnyderjr
    Thanks Mendel
    And thank you for porviding the info!!
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2006
    Location
    beach, florida
    Posts
    2

    trips

    thanks~~~~~~~~

    Is there anything out there that addresses road networks with trip generation?
    Last edited by florida sailor; 20 Mar 2006 at 4:40 PM. Reason: oops

  10. #10
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clayobyrne, CB
    Posts
    2,581
    Quote Originally posted by CosmicMojo
    ULI says:
    Weekday vehicle trip generation:
    SF-10
    Apartments-7
    Those are completely ridiculous numbers. There is no way that the average single family home generates 10 trips per day (including deliveries and what not). Are these maximums?

  11. #11
    Yes, these are peak trips and one direction is a trip, so leaving the driveway and returning is 2 trips. I think that these account for those peak saturdays when one leaves to go get things. Then this also adds in the other traffic that a household generates like friends/family coming over, hosting parties, pizza delivery guy, etc. each one of those is 2 trips also, unless they don't leave.

    Quote Originally posted by florida sailor
    thanks~~~~~~~~

    Is there anything out there that addresses road networks with trip generation?
    What do you mean? Like is there a relative factor to add in if the street is a cul-de-sac rather than a thru street?
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 20 Mar 2006 at 5:44 PM. Reason: double reply
    Who's gonna re-invent the wheel today?

  12. #12
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clayobyrne, CB
    Posts
    2,581
    Quote Originally posted by ssnyderjr
    Yes, these are peak trips...[snip]
    Are all 10 trips assumed to be completed by SOV? Are allowances made for walkability and proximity to neighborhood services?

  13. #13
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Quote Originally posted by jmello
    Are all 10 trips assumed to be completed by SOV? Are allowances made for walkability and proximity to neighborhood services?

    You are asking questions that involve the use of a rather complex multimodal gravity model that has to be calibrated to your region, and the land uses found in each of the TAZ's.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  14. #14
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clayobyrne, CB
    Posts
    2,581
    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner
    You are asking questions that involve the use of a rather complex multimodal gravity model that has to be calibrated to your region, and the land uses found in each of the TAZ's.
    No, I am asking questions that should be asked of ALL traffic engineers/planners who attempt to use steadfast formulas to predict how and where occupants and users of future structures will attain goods and services. I find the whole trip generation prediction methodology troubling, and bordering on psychical.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Section 14-12-7, 3rd PM
    Posts
    2,096
    Quote Originally posted by jmello
    Those are completely ridiculous numbers. There is no way that the average single family home generates 10 trips per day (including deliveries and what not). Are these maximums?
    Are you thinking 10 is high or low? Seems about right for our family if leaving, and returning counts as 2 trips.

    What is SOV?

  16. #16
    Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator NHPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 1996
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,609
    Quote Originally posted by savemattoon
    What is SOV?
    Single Occupant Vehicle
    "Growth is inevitable and desirable, but destruction of community character is not. The question is not whether your part of the world is going to change. The question is how." -- Edward T. McMahon, The Conservation Fund

  17. #17
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where Valley Fever Lives
    Posts
    7,324

    How 'Bout

    Quote Originally posted by Rumpy Tunanator
    ITE Code 210 (SF)- Daily Rate (Avg. Rate per unit) 9.57. PM Peak Rate 1.01 per unit

    ITE Code 220(Apt.)- Daily Rate (Avg. Rate per unit) 6.72 PM Peak Rate 0.62

    ITE Code 230(TH, CO)- Daily Rate (Avg. Rate per unit) 5.86 PM Peak Rate 0.52

    ITE Code 240 (Mobile H)- Daily Rate (Avg. Rate per unit) 4.99 PM Peak Rate 0.59


    Of course sometimes its better to use the equation instead of the rate, but when using the equation for just one unit sometimes the trips generated are not realistic.

    FDOT has a cd out with a Trip Generation program application. Its called TIPS. PM me your email and I'll try to send it to you via email using winzip.
    Rumpy- Got any numbers for Recreation Vehicle Subdivisions (permanent RV's on owned lots used 6-9 months a year...20 miles from the nearest services of any kind..?).....huh....do ya? Seriously, this would help me out

    Also, are the mobile home numbers good for rural and urban areas...or does ITE make no distinction?
    Skilled Adoxographer

  18. #18
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Quote Originally posted by jmello
    No, I am asking questions that should be asked of ALL traffic engineers/planners who attempt to use steadfast formulas to predict how and where occupants and users of future structures will attain goods and services. I find the whole trip generation prediction methodology troubling, and bordering on psychical.
    Walking is a mode. Car trips rather than SOV may be alternatives to transit. You need a multi modal model to check out how many are by foot/bike/transit/SOV/HOV/boat.

    Number of Jobs, income, households, and Trips are inputs into the Gravity Model, these are broken into traffic analysis zones (TAZs). And the modal element looks at the suitability for walking or use of transit.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  19. #19
    Cyburbian H's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2003
    Location
    MKS
    Posts
    2,847
    Cool, it is like seeing the world through different eyes (of a Transportation planner)!

    Thanks for the help y'all, and it is.

    H
    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

  20. #20
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clayobyrne, CB
    Posts
    2,581
    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner
    Number of Jobs, income, households, and Trips are inputs into the Gravity Model, these are broken into traffic analysis zones (TAZs). And the modal element looks at the suitability for walking or use of transit.
    I know how it works. I am working on developing a model right now. What I am questioning is the legitimacy of these numbers and models.

    We already know how to built communities with high non-auto trip shares, we don't need a model to tell us how. Real world observation beats any computer model.

  21. #21
    maudit anglais
    Registered
    May 1997
    Location
    Odd-a-wah
    Posts
    6,586
    I think the 10 trips per single family dwelling actually holds pretty true, even in denser urban communities. The difference is how those trips are undertaken. I don't think it's 10 trips in the peak though, more like 10 trips within a 24 hour period

    The evidence I've seen (both in literature and from travel surveys I've undertaken) is that increased densities lead to reduced trips per household, primarily because household size decreases as you move from house-form development to high-rises. This seems in line with the ULI rates quoted above. Typical occupancy here is 2.5 people per single family home, 1.6 per apartment. This is from census information, backed up by travel surveys.

    I think you need both real world observation and a good transportation model to tackle the issues. We're lucky enough that we are a large enough municipality that we can develop our own trip generation methodologies and undertake a comprehensive monitoring program to provide a check on what the transportation model generates. We use the model for longer-term order of magnitude forecasting, not as a basis for operational planning or improvements.

    You also need good policies in place to limit the damage traffic engineers can do...

  22. #22
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Quote Originally posted by jmello
    I know how it works. I am working on developing a model right now. What I am questioning is the legitimacy of these numbers and models.

    We already know how to built communities with high non-auto trip shares, we don't need a model to tell us how. Real world observation beats any computer model.

    But a trip generation rate is not real world either. It is an average. Models only do so much. What you are getting at invovles much more analysis than a trip generation rate from ITE or any other source was developed to tell someone.

    How the heck are you supposed to observe the thousands to millions of people that are found either living, working, or travelling through a given area every day?

    The best tool for this is a modal split application to a gravity model. Some of these models can be quite sophisticated, but it all depends on how much data you can collect.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  23. #23
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clayobyrne, CB
    Posts
    2,581
    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner
    How the heck are you supposed to observe the thousands to millions of people that are found either living, working, or travelling through a given area every day?
    If your goal is to limit travel delay, you examine existing healthy neighborhoods with low rates of delay and high mobility (i.e. most areas built before WWII) and integrate aspects of those communities into current zoning and planning regulations.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Quote Originally posted by jmello
    If your goal is to limit travel delay, you examine existing healthy neighborhoods with low rates of delay and high mobility (i.e. most areas built before WWII)
    I can show you plenty of places built prior to WW-2 that have terrible delay problems. Conversely, I can show you plenty of places built after WW-2 where delay is not an issue, what does this even have to do with trips by mode?
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  25. #25
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clayobyrne, CB
    Posts
    2,581
    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner
    ...what does this even have to do with trips by mode?
    We need to think differently about planning. Automobile congestion is more the result of design than density. And, delay is not solely measured by automobile congestion.

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

More at Cyburbia

  1. Pass-by trips
    Transportation Planning
    Replies: 2
    Last post: 08 Jan 2008, 6:43 PM
  2. Trips generated from retail development
    Transportation Planning
    Replies: 13
    Last post: 25 Jan 2007, 3:10 AM
  3. Replies: 44
    Last post: 27 Dec 2006, 5:34 PM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last post: 11 Apr 2005, 11:18 PM
  5. Dean trips
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 28
    Last post: 23 Jan 2004, 9:06 AM