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Poll results: I agree with the thoughts expressed in this column by el Guapo:

Voters
15. You may not vote on this poll
  • Go el Guapo - Run for US President Next!!!

    6 40.00%
  • Um..I kind of think you might be right on 75% of your points

    3 20.00%
  • Um, you get about 50% of it right.

    0 0%
  • Um, Dude you are about 25% right.

    3 20.00%
  • Um, Dude you are so off the mark I need to censure you!

    1 6.67%
  • I have no opinion.

    2 13.33%
  • I have a different opinion which I will expound upon below.

    0 0%
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Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: The Moslem World and the USA: Polar Opposites?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    The Moslem World and the USA: Polar Opposites?

    I was really puzzled by the recent European desire to crawl under the bed when the Moslem cartoon incident hit the Middle East recently. I learned things I never knew; like most European nations have national censorship laws and that they cower in fear of their Moslem populations. I read the news stories. I saw the cartoons. I heard the NPR in-depth examination of the various aspects of the people, places, religions and geography involved.

    I came to the realization that idiots exceeding the bounds of good taste are an unavoidable aspect of a free society. For instance you have the Reverend Fred Phelps and his band of homophobic* parishioners who protest at the funerals of soldiers. That pisses me off to no end, but it is a reasonable price to pay for living in a land where freedom of speech is essentially unrestricted.

    Another example, go to this website (NSFW) and take a look at the cartoons: http://www.socialnerve.org/art/latuff/main.htm To me, this is without a doubt the most repugnant speech I have ever witnessed. I can understand the reluctance to support the war in Iraq, but the vast majority of these cartoons are outright traitorous. They actively seek to support the enemy (Islamic Terrorists in case you forgot). But, even that is tollerated here in the US.

    The difference between the US and the Moslem world is that in America we have built up a healthy tolerance to speech like that in socialnerve's website. We expect to have people we disagree with voice their opinions in a manner in which we will be offended. But, here's the key, in the US when we see or hear such vile crap in the form of free speech we aren't going to kill anybody and we aren't going to burn down their town, rape their sister as punishment, or kidnap foreigners. You just don’t ever hear of someone being killed for their political beliefs in this country. While it doesn’t happen on occasion, like the Jewish radio personality, Alan Berg that was killed by the moron skin head, the vast majority of the country reacts with horror, as we should. We didn't torch our skinhead or jewish neighbor's stores. We just said, "that was wrong" and we may have mentioned something to our children like "that was wrong." Imagine that, the US is getting something right. When was the last time you heard someone say that?

    Moving on. I suggest to you that Europe needs to grow a set and forcibly educate their Moslem populations that being offended is part and parcel of living in the west. Americans (conservatives and liberals) need to step away from the use of the very real and very necessary war against Islamic Terrorism as a political tool. Democrats, I believe you could very easily win the next few elections if you weren’t as stupid as to just make stuff up to bring down Bush. The war is America's war. Look back at the vote count. It is just as much a democrat war as it is a republican war. If your really wanted to stop it you could have. But your political stategists think it is better to use the war as a political tool. That is wrong.

    I'll freely admit that Bush has numerous flaws and has made numerous mistakes, but in the end he is so much more credible than the “do anything, say anything” democrats. I believe he got the WMD thing wrong. I don't believe he lied. I believe that there was a weak WMD program and that most of it is in Syria right now, exactly where Saddam moved it in the weeks before the war.

    But, back to democrat bashing: Your party used to stand for things and have positions. “I hate Bush” is not a political platform. It is a sad indicator that you’re hollow where it counts. Republicans need to pull their heads out of their assess as well. The clowns we have in DC now are only slightly less disingenuous than the democrats. Go back to your roots and remember that civil liberties and responsible government used to have no better friend than the GOP. Get off of the corporate crack pipe and remember what made you want to go to Washington the first time. And don’t sell your souls; there are worse things than having a democrat sit in your house seat. You could be sitting there wondering how you are going to protect Halliburton’s ass instead of protecting the soldier in the field’s ass.

    Additionally, the Moslem world needs to step back from the Kool-Aid that is the jihad. Please let me remind you that your terrorists may get DC, LA and NYC one morning with the Moslem A-Bomb, but we will get every last damn one of you later that afternoon. If you don’t think the total retaliatory nuclear strike would happen reflexively if you nuked a US city I think you are far too naive.

    The quickest way to make Allah a memory is to further screw with the USA. I don’t think you understand how truly restrained the USA has been so far. I’d also like to point out who has been bombing Mosques. It hasn’t been us. It has been your fellow Moslems.

    One last point: The fastest way to get the evil US Hegemony out of the Moslem world is for the Moslem world to grow up and get their act together. Please figure out how to live in peace amongst yourselves, with your neighbors and Israel, and keep the oil flowing (yeah I said it), and police your own nut jobs and the world will leave you alone just like that. Additionally, you’ll make a profit on your oil and your people will be happier than they are now living under police-state theocracies.

    * Me thinketh Fred doth protest too much, if you know what I mean.
    Last edited by el Guapo; 17 Mar 2006 at 4:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Europe needs to grow a set and forcibly educate their Moslem populations that being offended is part and parcel of living in the west.
    I think they are....

    http://www.localnewsleader.com/brock...news&id=158963
    Dutch Immigrants Must Watch Racy Film
    Brocktown News, USA - Mar 15, 2006
    By BRUCE MUTSVAIRO, Wed Mar 15, 2:35 PM ET. ... The camera focuses on two gay men kissing in a ... of Islam and Citizenship, a national Muslim organization, defended ...

    Hey - can we send Fred over there? I'm sure he'd enjoy watching the video

  3. #3

    You gotta love it......

    What else needs to be said. Ditto?!??!?

    Let the Democratic Leftist whining begin.
    Forechecking is overrated.

  4. #4
    Member CosmicMojo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    You just donít ever hear of someone being killed for their political beliefs in this country.
    Thank god, not as much any more.
    There were many good civil rights workers, white and black, killed in the 50s.

    Also, there have been a number of abortion clinic staff killed by 'religious' people not so long ago.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CCMNUT39

    Let the Democratic Leftist whining begin.

    What the heck is wrong with you? Way to insult a significant percentage of the cyburbia population. Last time I checked this place was for having friendly discussions and while EG's post was misguided IMO it was still somewhat friendly. Your post is just plain stupid and antagonistic.

    Hows that for leftist whining?

  6. #6
    Who the hell are you to tell the muslim world what it ought to do?

  7. #7
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    Who the hell are you to tell the muslim world what it ought to do?

    Why I would be me. Someone with an opinion who lives in a free land where there is free speech on topics just like this one. Does my opinion upset you? If so welcome to the West. Feel free to post your own opinion. I support your right to a wrong opinion.*

    * You seem to have a Plethora of them, no?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    Why I would be me. Someone with an opinion who lives in a free land where there is free speech on topics just like this one. Does my opinion upset you? If so welcome to the West. Feel free to post your own opinion.
    My opinion is that there are hundreds of thousands of U.S. soldiers with no clue stationed in the muslim world, and no muslim soldiers stationed in the U.S. So it's a bit strange that you think muslims should "step back from the Kool-Aid that is the jihad." They're fighting for their home.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    My opinion is that there are hundreds of thousands of U.S. soldiers with no clue stationed in the Muslim world, and no Muslim soldiers stationed in the U.S. So it's a bit strange that you think Muslims should "step back from the Kool-Aid that is the jihad." They're fighting for their home.
    That's a very simplistic and wrong way to look at the situation.

    I look at it like this: a dictator who ran rape rooms, used chemical weapons on his own people, shot a missile into a US Navy ship, invaded two of his neighbors, blew up hundreds of oil wells causing untold environmental damage, shot political prisoners, used real torture on prisoners, robbed his country's treasury of billions, lied to the UN, shot missiles at Israel, filled countless mass graves, sponsored suicide bomber families with cash, and had two children just like dear old dad is now on trial for his crimes. But it is obvious that you Jaws are in favor of torture, rape rooms, mass graves, environmental damage, political executions, lies, robbery and unnecessary wars. I'm sorry to hear that you enjoy aggression so much.

    Did I mention that the country that helped save all those Iraqi people - at no charge (well except for the damage to the infrastructure and civilian lives lost) - is planning to leave after they have a bit of time to straighten up the place and institute some law and order? Did I also mention that ultimately that it is the Iraqis that will determine their destiny? All we can do is give them a hand. But you Jaws liked the way things were didn't you?

    It's really quite a shame you can't process all the facts and see things as they really are. Too much hate in your mind clouding the issue?

    BTW - Those soldiers do have a clue, unlike you - they receive all kinds of training and have done many wonderful things for the Iraqi people. Are the Yemeni, Syrian's, Iranians, and Chechens in Iraq fighting for Iraq or are they fighting for their Imam’s version of Allah and the Koran?

    Sir, I have insulted your intelligence and your honor. I expect no less of an incoherent retort than your last.
    Last edited by el Guapo; 17 Mar 2006 at 6:18 PM.

  10. #10
    I don't know how often you check the news, but the rape rooms are all still in operations, except under the much more qualified management of your expertly trained U.S. soldiers. They have thus improved the efficiency of rape severalfold.

    As for the Iraqis determining their destiny, they certainly have seized the opportunity. Their destiny is to mass murder each other while the U.S. army leaders stand back and watch, unable to understand what situation they have created.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    I don't know how often you check the news, but the rape rooms are all still in operations, except under the much more qualified management of your expertly trained U.S. soldiers. They have thus improved the efficiency of rape severalfold.

    As for the Iraqis determining their destiny, they certainly have seized the opportunity. Their destiny is to mass murder each other while the U.S. army leaders stand back and watch, unable to understand what situation they have created.
    Jaws
    By your silence on the specifics of the issue you continue to silently endorse Saddam's policies of torture, rape rooms, mass graves, environmental damage, political executions, lies, robbery and unnecessary wars as preferable to the current state of Iraq. Which is it? What is the better way? Bush's Iraq war or Saddam's continued rule in Iraq. You can't skirt the question forever.

    Ok, please show a credible link to verify that the US is systematically - as a policy - using rape as a tool. Otherwise I would think you are the tool. Wait, I think that already. I base that on your baseless accusations which besmirtch the honor of those brave men and women oveseas protecting this nation and our way of life.

    Next, if that - civil war - be thier destiny then so be it. We will of course use our limited power to help install a sense of civility but the US isn't going to change thousands of years of religious hate. The US is there to show that there is another way. We may be successful, we may not. But there is great honor in the effort.

    Smack - My white linen glove snaps loudly upon your right cheek Sir!
    Last edited by el Guapo; 17 Mar 2006 at 6:20 PM.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Jaws tell you what, as soon as the insurgency stops shooting at US Troops and innocent Iraqis, we will come home, the world will be happy, and everyone will get a baby kitten!

    Back in roman times a roman citizen could walk though the world in confidence because he knew that if anyone tried to harm him, all he would have to do is say ďI am a roman citizen!Ē and the perpetrator would leave him alone because he knew that if he harmed this man, the entire force of the Roman empire would come down on him and death would be a blessing. Well guess what, that is not the world we live in. Too many Americans think that if we just stand by and watch the world without getting involved, no one will harm us. Well my friend, if you think that we can just pull out and go home, you live in a truly delusional world.

    The terrorists donít care if youíre Republican or Democrat, White, Black, Brown, Red, Asian, or a cat owner. They want you, and everything you believe in dead. If you not willing to stand up for that, then guess what, it does not matter. A soldier in Iraq is doing it for you.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  13. #13
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    I find it telling that in the 2nd ammendment thread some people are saying that if the government comes to take away their guns or tell them what to do they will use those guns. Then in this thread those same people are saying that the Iraqi's are messed up for shooting at US troops who come to take their guns and tell them what to do.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    Jaws
    By your silence on the specifics of the issue you continue to silently endorse Saddam's policies of torture, rape rooms, mass graves, environmental damage, political executions, lies, robbery and unnecessary wars as preferable to the current state of Iraq. Which is it? What is the better way? Bush's Iraq war or Saddam's continued rule in Iraq. You can't skirt the question forever.
    Bush's Iraq war has so far destroyed the lives of thousands and is on its way to thousands more. This blood is on your hands, and your attempts to claim moral superiority because your adversary was also a murderer is laughable. You are responsible for these deaths, not Saddaam. Take responsibility for being a murderer.

    The idea that one must choose between Saddaam's rule and America's destruction is childish. No real choice was ever offered to the Iraqis. They only suffer from the delusions of one gang lord after another. I will not endorse any of them.
    Ok, please show a credible link to verify that the US is systematically - as a policy - using rape as a tool. Otherwise I would think you are the tool. Wait, I think that already. I base that on your baseless accusations which besmirtch the honor of those brave men and women oveseas protecting this nation and our way of life.
    If they truly were so brave and protecting your nation, they would be doing it in America, not so poor forgotten country in the Middle East. What would you say if I protected myself by forcing open the door to your house, took all your guns away, barricaded myself in and said I would leave only at the point where you did everything I demanded you do?

    If you want a credible link, search any news source for "Abu Ghraib."
    Next, if that - civil war - be thier destiny then so be it. We will of course use our limited power to help install a sense of civility but the US isn't going to change thousands of years of religious hate. The US is there to show that there is another way. We may be successful, we may not. But there is great honor in the effort.

    Smack - My white linen glove snaps loudly upon your right cheek Sir!
    The U.S. so far has shown that they are not even competent enough to run an empire, certainly not that "there is another way." It took only a few thousand British officers to run all of India, a country with much deeper social, cultural and religious divisions than Iraq, as well as a gigantic population. They did it quite well because they were cautious and respected the local cultures.

    So far the U.S. reign in Iraq has been brutish, insensible and ruinous for everyone. All it has achieved is to make Americans look like fools.

    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    Back in roman times a roman citizen could walk though the world in confidence because he knew that if anyone tried to harm him, all he would have to do is say “I am a roman citizen!” and the perpetrator would leave him alone because he knew that if he harmed this man, the entire force of the Roman empire would come down on him and death would be a blessing. Well guess what, that is not the world we live in. Too many Americans think that if we just stand by and watch the world without getting involved, no one will harm us. Well my friend, if you think that we can just pull out and go home, you live in a truly delusional world.
    So let me see if I understand this correctly. As an American you demand the right to do anything, anywhere, to anyone, and should they object and defend themselves from you the full force of the American empire is to be employed to show them the error of their ways.

    And you wonder why people fight you?

  15. #15
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner
    I find it telling that in the 2nd ammendment thread some people are saying that if the government comes to take away their guns or tell them what to do they will use those guns. Then in this thread those same people are saying that the Iraqi's are messed up for shooting at US troops who come to take their guns and tell them what to do.
    I believe that the average law-abiding Iraqi civilian should be armed. So that he or she may better defend themself. Does that suprise you? It is the guy with a daisy chain of 155 howizer rounds in a Toyota that should be disarmed and killed.

    I also know that the smart Iraqi's know that the quickest way to see the last C-130 full of Americans depart is to organize and stabilize their country. But with people like you on the home front they have doubts about America's commitment to the war effort. i don't blame them - You are fighting a domestic political battle with their lives. Shame on you.

    There is no inconsistancy in my position. You just can't think outside of your paradigm. Tis another shame

    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    Bush's Iraq war has so far destroyed the lives of thousands and is on its way to thousands more. This blood is on your hands, and your attempts to claim moral superiority because your adversary was also a murderer is laughable. You are responsible for these deaths, not Saddam. Take responsibility for being a murderer.
    In a perfect world no one would die a violent death. But this is a world that is far from perfect. I equate the current situation to one where a cop was involved in a justified shooting. Itís a damn shame, but nothing to lose sleep over. A bad guy made a choice and he lost. Weep if you want. And on a personal note, I do take responsibility for personally killing several Iraqi's in 1991 and participating in a much larger effort that killed thousands of Iraqis I never saw or met. Does that help? Do you feel better? I feel perfectly fine with the decisions I have made. I whole heartedly and unabashedly endorse the decision of the US government to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    The idea that one must choose between Saddam's rule and America's destruction is childish. No real choice was ever offered to the Iraqis. They only suffer from the delusions of one gang lord after another. I will not endorse any of them. If they truly were so brave and protecting your nation, they would be doing it in America, not so poor forgotten country in the Middle East. What would you say if I protected myself by forcing open the door to your house, took all your guns away, barricaded myself in and said I would leave only at the point where you did everything I demanded you do?
    Now how do you propose we offered that choice of futures to the Iraqi people? Perhaps we could open an organic food coop? You don't propose any solutions or alternatives - you just snivel. I dismiss you because you do not have the bravery to offer solutions of your own.

    Oh, you are more than welcome to come to my house and try your little home invasion plan. Bring the information on how to contact your next of kin.

    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    If you want a credible link, search any news source for "Abu Ghraib."

    The U.S. so far has shown that they are not even competent enough to run an empire, certainly not that "there is another way." It took only a few thousand British officers to run all of India, a country with much deeper social, cultural and religious divisions than Iraq, as well as a gigantic population. They did it quite well because they were cautious and respected the local cultures.

    So far the U.S. reign in Iraq has been brutish, insensible and ruinous for everyone. All it has achieved is to make Americans look like fools.
    I'm glad you have an opinion. I especially enjoyed the part about the British respecting local cultures. That part was damn funny. Abu Ghraib doesn't equate to rape rooms on the scale of Saddam. So you admit youíre a dishonest person who makes up facts to support his whacked diatribes?

    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    So let me see if I understand this correctly. As an American you demand the right to do anything, anywhere, to anyone, and should they object and defend themselves from you the full force of the American empire is to be employed to show them the error of their ways.
    Iraq was a bad actor and had numerous chances to join the community of nations as a peaceful player. Their dictator choose a different path. The US did the right thing and youíre an apologist for a mass murder. And I demand no such thing as the right to act wantonly and without consideration for my nation. We had a fierce debate in this nation before going to war. America was more than patient and tried to let the UN solve the issue. The UN turned out to be worthless as many Americans have always believed. The rest of the world - with the exception of Britain and a few others were willing to appease a mass murderer. We were not.

    So, who is the real guilty party in the grand picture? You are pal. You and your nation didn't stand up and say "this is wrong and it must stop" when there were alternatives to war. Your national cowardice aided and supported a mass murderer. Vichy Jaws?

    Sir, you have yet to do anything other than shame yourself with you weak arguments. How much more punishment do you wish to receive? Jaws The oxygen tank is in your gullet. Don't make me pull the trigger, chum*.


    *Pun Intended.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 18 Mar 2006 at 9:08 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    In a perfect world no one would die a violent death. But this is a world that is far from perfect. I equate the current situation to one where a cop was involved in a justified shooting. It’s a damn shame, but nothing to loss sleep over. A bad guy made a choice and he lost. Weep if you want. And on a personal note, I do take responsibility for personally killing several Iraqi's in 1991 and participating in a much larger effort that killed thousands of Iraqis I never saw or met. Does that help? Do you feel better? I feel perfectly fine with the decisions I have made. I whole heartedly and unabashedly endorse the decision of the US government to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.
    You are murderer and have no problem having this on your conscience? I don't know how I can argue against that, except that by your country's own laws you deserve the death penalty.
    Now how do you propose we offered that choice of futures to the Iraqi people? You don't propose any solutions or alternatives - you just snivel.
    I have always had a solution and an alternative. In fact I posted a thread in this very forum with a solution that could take effect immediately.
    Oh, you are more than welcome to come to my house and try your little home invasion plan. Bring the information on how to contact your next of kin.
    Thus you have described the fate of thousands of dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq.
    I'm glad you have an opinion. I especially enjoyed the part about the British respecting local cultures. That part was damn funny. Abu Ghraib doesn't equate to rape rooms on the scale of Saddam. So you admit you’re a dishonest person who makes up facts to support his whacked diatribes?
    So it's not on the "scale" of Saddam, so rape is okay. We're just raping a little. It's for their own good!

    Iraq was a bad actor and had numerous chances to join the community of nations as a peaceful player. Their dictator choose a different path. The US did the right thing and you’re an apologist for mass murder. And I demand no such thing as the right to act wantonly and without consideration for my nation. We had a fierce debate in this nation before going to war. America was more than patient and tried to let the UN solve the issue. The UN turned out to be worthless as many Americans have always believed. The rest of the world - with the exception of Britain and a few others were willing to appease a mass murderer. We were not.
    This nonsense again? There was no issue. There was never any issue. It was a complete fabrication and demonstrated quite clearly in the UN, which for once served its intended purpose. Since then not only has there not been any evidence unearthed about there being an issue, your own government agents have reported that there was no issue.

    I can only conclude one thing about your argument. You are out of your mind and withdrawn from reality.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    You are murderer and have no problem having this on your conscience? I don't know how I can argue against that, except that by your country's own laws you deserve the death penalty.
    By my country's laws the penalty was two medals and a little help with me education. Damn our justice system!

    But, Boutros Boutros Jaws, wouldn't you rather debate my possible sanctions in the UN for a decade first before imposing your sentence?

    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    I have always had a solution and an alternative. In fact I posted a thread in this very forum with a solution that could take effect immediately.
    In all seriousness, thanks for the link to something concrete that you propose. I believe your suggested solution to be greatly in error but I respect that you at least proposed it. When I get some time I travel over there and debate the specifics of your "solution" with you. Lucky dog.

    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    Thus you have described the fate of thousands of dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq. So it's not on the "scale" of Saddam, so rape is okay. We're just raping a little. It's for their own good!
    No, wrong again. I was the first person to get on this board - if memory serves me correctly - and raise hell about the abuses of prisoners at that prison. I also wrote my president and told him of my concerns and that I was withholding my vote for him in the next election based upon his actions. He had to earn it back by investigating the issue.

    I went on record to state firmly that the abuses that occurred there were wrong. Where was your outrage over the kidnapping and murder of Daniel Pearl and other western hostages? Your heart only bleeds for the enemies of this nation. That much is clear. Your posts speak volumes about your hate of this country.

    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    This nonsense again? There was no issue. There was never any issue. It was a complete fabrication and demonstrated quite clearly in the UN, which for once served its intended purpose. Since then not only has there not been any evidence unearthed about there being an issue, your own government agents have reported that there was no issue.
    You're saying - the issue of WMD's aside - there were no other issues with Iraq and that the US just up and decided to invade with everyone up and down the chain of command fully knowing that Iraq was a peaceful utopia? WTF? Yep I guess those 40 UN resolutions were merely suggestions. I guess those missiles that were found that exceeded the UN resolutions were figments. I guess that Saddam's mass graves and state sponsored torture were acceptable to you.

    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    I can only conclude one thing about your argument. You are out of your mind and withdrawn from reality.
    Your opinion. I believe that I've got the much firmer grounding in the reality of how the world operates.

    Jaws On a kinder and gentler note. I'm having so much fun arguing with you. I hope it is just as rewarding for you. Peace
    Last edited by el Guapo; 17 Mar 2006 at 11:36 PM.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    - You are fighting a domestic political battle with their lives. Shame on you.

    Shame on you. All I did was point out your hypocrisy and you turn it into a political battle.

    Why do you feel the need to insult people and start heated arguments in what is supposed to be a friendly forum? You are really ticking me off. I find it interesting that you can be such a great contributor to this site and yet such a troll at the same time. Obviously you started this thread with the intent of starting a flame war. What the hell is wrong with you anyways?

    If you want to have a friendly argument then keep it civil please. Pissing me and others off does no good.


    Editing here to say that upon re-reading your post and my response above^^ I am apparantly a little overheated about the shame on you comment. Perhaps I am a little emotional for various reasons right now and wasn't in the mood for a big argument. Some other time maybe....

  19. #19
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner
    Shame on you. All I did was point out your hypocrisy and you turn it into a political battle.

    Why do you feel the need to insult people and start heated arguments in what is supposed to be a friendly forum? You are really ticking me off. I find it interesting that you can be such a great contributor to this site and yet such a troll at the same time. Obviously you started this thread with the intent of starting a flame war. What the hell is wrong with you anyways?

    If you want to have a friendly argument then keep it civil please. Pissing me and others off does no good.
    See the part you don’t get is that I'm anything but a hypocrite. I live my life and fight my battles with clarity of vision that would astound and possibly scare the piss out of you. You're calling me a hypocrite in your response to my postings here opened you up for a response. Read your own reply to my posts before getting your panties all bunched up. You claimed hypocrisy on my part and you really expected me to roll over and wet myself?

    And yes, most certainly, I am trolling if you call taking an unpopular point of view and arguing the merits of my opinions trolling. And in all reality, there is no way to come on a liberal forums board such as this one and support the President and the current war without coming prepared for battle. Your side invoked the term “murderer” and I’m the bad guy?

    Liberals get on this board and just absolutely trash the things I believe in. And they do so without argument because it is pointless to respond. Logic doens't seem to have any effect. Thus, the conservatives here have learned their lesson. Well except for Michaelski. He's still young and idealistic. Your kind is just too used to hearing your own voices. No one does more to oppress free speech than the Bush Administration Town Hall Format Public Meeting team and the liberal hegmony.

    Today was St. Patrick's Day. In true Irish fashion I marched out on the green, planted a flag and dared all comers to come out for a fight. I got one. I tried to get one going in the second ammendment thread and found no one brave enough to argue for your side. And, as to this thread being a fight, I've had better. But this one was mildly interesting, and in my opinion it blew a few holes in some smug liberal world views. Maybe pissing you off is exactly what you needed today. You can thank me in a PM.

    Hello! My main argument in the first post of this thread was that part and parcel of living in the West was that you would hear views that upset and outrage you. Obviously my work here is done.

    I am tired and I plan to retire from this battle and wish to offer Jaws and imaplanner the last word before I close this thread tomorrow morning.
    Last edited by el Guapo; 18 Mar 2006 at 12:39 AM.

  20. #20

    Registered
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    Location
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    6,468
    Wow. I'm glad I wasn't here for this one. Embarrasingly enough for me, I have to say....

    JAWS, my "libertarian nemesis"

    expresses my opinion pretty well here, so no need to join the flame war.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo
    By my country's laws the penalty was two medals and a little help with me education. Damn our justice system!
    We all know there is no justice in this world. If there were, people who murder and steal in the name of the country would be locked up like the people who murder and steal in their own name. Instead they get medals. Or if they're unlucky enough to lose a fight, get tried as a war criminals.
    No, wrong again. I was the first person to get on this board - if memory serves me correctly - and raise hell about the abuses of prisoners at that prison. I also wrote my president and told him of my concerns and that I was withholding my vote for him in the next election based upon his actions. He had to earn it back by investigating the issue.
    And surprisingly he had nothing to do with it, although his legal counsel has assured everyone that the president has the right to resort to torture. Just in case, you never know what might come up.
    I went on record to state firmly that the abuses that occurred there were wrong. Where was your outrage over the kidnapping and murder of Daniel Pearl and other western hostages? Your heart only bleeds for the enemies of this nation. That much is clear. Your posts speak volumes about your hate of this country.
    I do hate your country, as I do most countries. It is a menace, a destroyer, a monster. You see light in it because that is what it wants you to see, but behind the propaganda there is nothing but men who wield power for its own pleasure. They did not care about the threat of Iraq. They just wanted to change the world for their own sake, and you gave them the means to do it. Everone who died, Pearl, U.S. soldiers, the foreign hostages, the ordinary civilians, the children, it is all part of the same crime. The crime of giving men the means and the consent to be destroyers.
    You're saying - the issue of WMD's aside - there were no other issues with Iraq and that the US just up and decided to invade with everyone up and down the chain of command fully knowing that Iraq was a peaceful utopia? WTF? Yep I guess those 40 UN resolutions were merely suggestions. I guess those missiles that were found that exceeded the UN resolutions were figments. I guess that Saddam's mass graves and state sponsored torture were acceptable to you.
    There is no issue of WMDs aside. The WMDs were the issue. Without the WMDs, there is nothing. Iraq was not guilty of any invasion since its surrender. The U.S. is the invader now. The mass graves are still being filled, by you. The state sponsored torture is still taking place, by your hands. My position is vindicated. I've comdemned the evil of Saddaam Hussein's state and the evil of the U.S. empire. My conscience is clear. You defend an evil because it profits you, under the cover that the evil would have been done by someone else regardless. One day the war will come to you, and consume you. You will be responsible.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Thread closed as we have clearly and expansively covered the topic. Thanks Jaws I look foreward to our next discussion.

Closed thread

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