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Thread: Cherry Hill Village: new urbanism in Canton, Michigan

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Four years ago, this intersection was nothing but a farm field.
    nothing but a farm field? Now it's nothing but faux-urbanism.


  2. #52
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Craigslist/Detroit analogy is sort of biased. Most of the Craigslisters are independant folks doing a FSBO, while Detroit's homes are mostly done using MLS, as they are generally harder to sell, so they need to get the word out to as many folks as possible. Royal Oak is the hot scenester area, and Craigslist is very scenserterist (sp?).

    I bought my Detroit home some 12 years ago and it is now worth three times what I paid for it. Homes in Detroit appreciated nicely for several years. By suburban standards this is still cheap, but next to homes in Northern Michigan (outside of the traverse sphere of influence, it is quite expensive), I'm not sure what you are defining as a typical michigan house, as some are on 30 foot lots and others are on 40 acre parcels. In the areayou picked most of the new development is done by resoring existing buildings or by builders/developers as townhouses. While it has a long way to go to be Royal Oak you cannot discount some of the big changes in market value that many of the traditional neighborhoods within the city have made.

    Whne you look at this in comparison to the city losing population at a rate of 1,000 a month it is remarkable.

  3. #53
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    Well, I'm not a fan of New Urbanism either. Cities usually grow organically, in predictable, yet chaotic patterns. "New Urbanism" towns simply lack history and the infrastructure that comes with it. How about this as a question: Why do people move to places like this, and still keep cars? If there is a close downtown and employment center, why still keep your car?

    Also, I've got a feeling those houses are not well constructed. I live in a poor, underdeveloped neighborhood in Albany, NY, and my house, while not as big and impressive as these houses, will still be around in 200 years.

    PS: Privatization is clap-trap. I don't want my city taken over by a self-selected bunch of rich people who live in the suburbs or expensive penthouses. I'll take it over myself, thanks. However, the current situation of political corruption won't work either. The reality is that our cities are in fact "privately" owned in the sense that wealthy people call the shots anyway, and look at what has happened.
    In fact, true community action, participation, and ownership might turn blighted urban areas around.

  4. #54
    Cyburbian Luca's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by oehlda2000 View post
    Well, I'm not a fan of New Urbanism either. Cities usually grow organically, in predictable, yet chaotic patterns.
    WRONG. Some of the greatest neighbourhoods grew along planned liens. Edinburgh New Town, many parts of London (including Richmond, a gem), some fot he prettiest parts of Paris. One could go on. ONLY 20th century planned towns stink.

    Quote Originally posted by oehlda2000 View post
    "New Urbanism" towns simply lack history and the infrastructure that comes with it.
    New Urbanism isnít only (or even mainly) about TNDs. You need to research the subject a bit before spouting off, mate.

    Quote Originally posted by oehlda2000 View post
    How about this as a question: Why do people move to places like this, and still keep cars? If there is a close downtown and employment center, why still keep your car?
    To drive to other places?? Itís not about NEVER driving or hating cars. Itís about not having to drive EVERYWHERE.

  5. #55
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    Insiders view to Urban Development

    I live near Canton and this new urbanism development. However, I do see a great potential in building this downtown area. I am considering opening a restaurant in this area. What are your thoughts as urban developers? How do I attract people to this "vacant" location? The lease is very high, which I plan to NEGOTIATE. How can I improve the foot traffic? How successful would this endeavor be? At this point, there is only a Cold Stone and a coffee shop (opening soon) that will only serve coffee and donuts. I am going more towards upscale but very personalized. Seating will be less than 45. I am very open for ideas. I have looked in Ann Arbor - which I love and still have the opportunity, just not sure if I want to play the politics game that is so prevalent.
    Last edited by Mtfemme; 17 Oct 2006 at 5:07 AM. Reason: removing picture

  6. #56
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mtfemme View post
    How do I attract people to this "vacant" location? The lease is very high, which I plan to NEGOTIATE. How can I improve the foot traffic? How successful would this endeavor be?
    Did you know that last year they had an auction to get rid of homes from this development??

    Did you know that besides the couple hundred houses/condos apartments at Cherry Hill and Ridge there is NOTHING else out there? Do you think that with the downturn in the economy people are still looking for upscale housing at the fringe of the urban area??

    Why do you think there are no other businesses out there if it is such a good market? My gosh some of the worst neighborhoods in Detroit have better retail than this place.

    I would suggest you look elsewhere. You seem to be looking in some very high dollar areas. You should look at places like Manchester, Chelsea, Ypsi, Plymouth, heck even tried and true Detroit or Dearborn. These areas have a lot of traffic and by you being there you can generate additional traffic.

    If you're hot on Canton, maybe you should be over by the IKEA, no body moves to Canton to walk places. If you think you can increase pedestrians where there are generations of people who would not know a pedestrian if it walked out in front of them, you really need to think about this before sinking $$$ here. If people wanted walkable neighborhoods and be by Canton they would live in Plymouth, Wayne, Ypsi.....

    BTW, I just noticed the crappy pavement of both the streets and sidewalks in the pics ski's originally posted. The streets gat harly any traffic, are only a few years old, yet riddled with potholes. The sidewalks are built wrong, with lines set up in ways that will gaurantee cracking and deterioration. Does this sound like they were using new urban principles when building this?

  7. #57
    Cyburbian IlliniPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by SW MI Planner View post
    Wow, I was there last about 6 years ago and it was nothing but a church and an old general store, and farms for as far as the eye can see.
    That answers my only peeve that it looked like the land for the housing development was cleared of any mature trees and the new development put in its standard of "one tree every 25 feet." The homes will definitely fit better in 40 years when the trees are large enough.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Wow...very nice.

    And also one thing I hope NU projects will be able to master is to include the necessary big-box retail (grocer, home center, electronics) into their projects (and do it well), that will both serve its community and the existing area.

    Otherwise, a good project.
    I would hope that big box retailers would be incorporated without the big box look - especially without the acres of wasteful surface parking. It is possible to incorporate big box chains into typical urban buildings - I've seen it done in both Pasadena and San Francisco (Target, Marshalls, etc).

    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    Not too many tornados here, but when they hit.. youch!

    I suppose what bothers me most about this development is the fact that it is sucking up prime farmland while other parts of metro Detroit empty out. It makes little sense, but hey its based on the priniple of reducing the risk of your return when you sell your home, not based in creating a real livable area where people will live for years to come. Every five years properties on the fringe turn over like clockwork.
    Very good point. I think the future lies in revitalized urban neighborhoods. Americans need to place more value on our precious farmland, especially as it gets more expensive to transport industrially-grown produce from across the globe.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 19 Nov 2006 at 7:55 PM. Reason: double reply

  9. #59
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    Cherry Hill looks good on paper and looks good in photos but when you consider the context of the site, I think it falls flat on its face. It's a subdivision in the middle of farmland and traditional subdivision development. Sure, the lots are smaller and the setbacks are smaller, but it just doesn't make sense. I found it completely bizarre to drive past a traditional subdivision development (large homes on large lots with large garages, etc.) to get to Cherry Hill Village. I wasn't impressed with the quality of the construction, either.

  10. #60
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    There is a very similar development being built in Markham, Ontario. The developer is trying to recreate a Victorian era community of big Victorian manors surrounding a central square which will include a church, a library and a few other amenities. It is being built to encourage community-building and make a pedestrian-friendly environment.

    Of course on a social and aesthetic level these developments are a vast improvement on traditional low-density suburban development. But I can never help but think that it is just a nice way of covering up the relentless urban sprawl that we see all over North America. The development in Markham is being built on prime farmland and on an environmentally sensitive glacial landscape. Although these "new urbanist" developments are intriguing I still believe more needs to be done to curb low-density development on the fringes of cities.

  11. #61

    Cherry Hill Village

    I actually live in Cherry Hill Village. I bought my home nearly 2 years ago. If anyone has any questions, please reply.

  12. #62
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    Re-visit Cherry Hill Village

    To clear up some misconceptions and update information on Cherry Hill Village in Canton, MI: The original photos posted were unfortunately taken in winter and are now quite out of date. The streets have received their finish coat of asphalt and most of the lots are built on except for some in Phase3. Retail development is still slow and is suffering from the economic downturn although several business are operating quite successfully. Among them are the Indigo salon and day spa, Cherry Martini Bar, a Flagstar bank, a dental office, gift shop and a small market. In addition there is a weekly farmers market held next to the theatre where several historic homes and a barn have been moved to provide a historical foundation for the site. An elementary school and large medical facility with doctor's offices and a pharmacy have also been built here.

    As a homeowner in Cherry Hill village, I can safely say that in general, residents enjoy the atmosphere and the lifestyle afforded by living there. I personally met more neighbors in the first months of living there than I did in 17 years in our old, subdivision style neighborhood.

    While it is certainly no substitute for true urban re-developments, it does provide a warm, friendly and spirited environment for those looking to get away from large yards, impersonal subdivisions, and look-alike homes all painted in a range of beiges. It will not be right for many but it feels like home to me.

    I will post updated photos soon to show what is a lively, vibrant and up-and-coming community.

  13. #63
    Cyburbian
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    After looking at a map this is completely not what I was picturing. I was looking for nice square blocks and not this...

    Here is an example of what I think is a great idea (at least from a street perspective):
    http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTEx...132239&zoom=16

    Farmington, MN extended the grid pattern. It is very nice

  14. #64
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    One question

    Quote Originally posted by WesternWayneCO View post
    I actually live in Cherry Hill Village. I bought my home nearly 2 years ago. If anyone has any questions, please reply.
    What is your feeling about Cherry Hill Village and how do you like living here?

  15. #65
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    Give it a serious look

    Quote Originally posted by Mtfemme View post
    I live near Canton and this new urbanism development. However, I do see a great potential in building this downtown area. I am considering opening a restaurant in this area. What are your thoughts as urban developers? How do I attract people to this "vacant" location? The lease is very high, which I plan to NEGOTIATE. How can I improve the foot traffic? How successful would this endeavor be? At this point, there is only a Cold Stone and a coffee shop (opening soon) that will only serve coffee and donuts. I am going more towards upscale but very personalized. Seating will be less than 45. I am very open for ideas. I have looked in Ann Arbor - which I love and still have the opportunity, just not sure if I want to play the politics game that is so prevalent.
    Time after time, the speople I speak with have been mentioning the need for a restaurant and a bar. The bar is now here (the Cherry Martini Bar) and doing a landmine business all week long, We're still looking for a restaurant. The coffee/donut shop came and failed due to bad management. With the theater scheduling shows and events all year around a restaurant would do very well here. The Coldstone store is busy year round with lines going out the door many nights and every weekend. The martini bar has valet parking on the weekends and packs them in.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally posted by vanspronsen View post
    What is your feeling about Cherry Hill Village and how do you like living here?
    I also want to know what your feelings are now that you've lived there for awhile. I'm looking for an affordable place where I would enjoy living as well as a good investment.

    Quote Originally posted by Mr. AnthraXxX View post
    nothing but a farm field? Now it's nothing but faux-urbanism.

    Would you buy there for an investment?
    Last edited by mendelman; 04 Sep 2008 at 2:16 PM.

  17. #67

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    COST TO BUILD AND COST TO LIVE

    We build high quality homes that look like the ones posted above (as well as other styles) at $80-85 per sq. ft. plus the lot. A 1550 sq.ft. 3br/2.5ba with 9-ft ceilings and full basement would have an annual utility bill of $1200. They are rated by Energy Star with a 64 HERS Index and could quality as L.E.E.D. GOLD.

  18. #68
    Cyburbian Masswich's avatar
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    The photos show the same, basically nice (and better than conventional subdivision), NU development as you see at most NU sites.

    Some thoughts:

    1. Why can't there be smaller single- or two-family homes? A single can be as small as 1,000 and work (and be more afforable in terms of price, utilities and maintenance.) A 2 can be 1,500 sf. It seems that having only larger homes is not in keeping with what these types of neighborhoods want to feel like. And while apartments are nice, many families want a small yard and four walls, but not 2,500 sf.

    2. Why are the roads so darn wide? Its that a midwestern thing? 24' is enough for a 2 lane local road - and if its designed from scratch they can be designed for fire access.

    3. Can't there be modern designs and still be NU? What about more materials or styles? I saw a great modern-style rehab of an old wood frame house near where I live - still wood, but ceilingboard. Nice, modern windows. And it still has a front porch. Does NU mean throwback styles on buildings that are not as sturdy?

    Just some thoughts.

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