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Thread: The NEVERENDING Dating Thread

  1. #76
         
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    Quote Originally posted by donk
    I am starting to think of getting myself one of the tshirts with this on it.

    I really need a shirt like that (of course it will be a She-woman Man Haters club) .....isnt it just exhausting trying to find a decent person?? I didn't have such a negative out look before but at the moment I am discouraged and too tired to even deal with anymore of the drama....

  2. #77
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk
    or lets just be friends.
    Now that is a lame line...

    I'll never forget being out with a couple guys, and somehow the ugly chubby guy from the group (alcohol was involved) got up the nerve to approach a table full of very pretty women and ask one for her number. Well, instead of just being nice, she very loudly exclaims that he could never get her number, blah blah blah...

    Well, when he came back just crushed, another fellow with us, probably the exact opposite of the first... tall, dashing, all that stuff, heads over. He talks to her for just a minute or so, and then shouts over the music, "Dance?! No, honey, I said you look fat in those pants!"
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  3. #78
         
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    Now that is a lame line...

    I'll never forget being out with a couple guys, and somehow the ugly chubby guy from the group (alcohol was involved) got up the nerve to approach a table full of very pretty women and ask one for her number. Well, instead of just being nice, she very loudly exclaims that he could never get her number, blah blah blah...

    Well, when he came back just crushed, another fellow with us, probably the exact opposite of the first... tall, dashing, all that stuff, heads over. He talks to her for just a minute or so, and then shouts over the music, "Dance?! No, honey, I said you look fat in those pants!"
    KUDOS to your friend!!!
    I cannot STAND people who are mean to people, especially when they have done the hard part in walking up to someone. I am the one that stands in the corner hoping to make eye contact, never having the nerve to walk up and talk to someone. So when guys approach me, no matter what they look like (if they are being nice and not obnoxious ) I will talk to them no matter what. There is no reason not to have a conversation. There are plenty of women out there that won't talk to someone based on how they look or are dressed (I have a friend or two like that) and it drives me nuts, none of us are perfect.

  4. #79
    Cyburbian RandomPlanner's avatar
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    Speaking of slightly awkward...

    Quote Originally posted by njm
    ... I had already applied to KTH (in Stockholm, Sweden) and was planning to go there. 18 months later I live in upstate NY,....
    This is awkward to say in this thread, but...OMG -- you lived in Stockholm and now you're in CNY?? I lived in Stockholm and now I'm in CNY. We should totally be friends!
    How do I know you are who you think you are?

  5. #80
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    I'll never forget being out with a couple guys, and somehow the ugly chubby guy from the group (alcohol was involved) got up the nerve to approach a table full of very pretty women and ask one for her number. Well, instead of just being nice, she very loudly exclaims that he could never get her number, blah blah blah...

    Well, when he came back just crushed, another fellow with us, probably the exact opposite of the first... tall, dashing, all that stuff, heads over. He talks to her for just a minute or so, and then shouts over the music, "Dance?! No, honey, I said you look fat in those pants!"
    Reminds me of something I read where a woman embarrased some guy in a bar -- I don't recall what she said Very Loudly -- but when she came back a little while later and apologized and explained to him that it was part of an experiment for a college class, he stood up and very loudly exclaimed something like "SEVENTY FIVE DOLLARS?? ARE YOU NUTS?"

    PS The whole "let's be friends" thing -- I think that's actually, on some level, an attempt to tell men that women just want to be treated like human beings, not sex objects, and want an emotional and intellectual connection first and foremost. Yes, by the time she says that, it probably means things have gone to hell and can't be worked out. But I think it often is an attempt to say that the real problem is that he is treating her like an object and like sex is the only reason to talk to her and she isn't enjoying being treated in such a dehumanizing fashion.

    I am not trying to dog out men. I'm quite fond of men. But it seems to be really common that men and women don't know how to interact like human beings and get all weird about the fact that sex might, maybe, someday be part of the picture if they hit it off. I think if you worry more about the hitting it off part, the sex thing is actually a lot easier. Worrying about the sexual or romantic aspect of the relationship while overlooking the fundamental health of the relationship is putting the cart before the horse and I think that wrecks a whole lot of relationships from the get go.

  6. #81
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    I think if you worry more about the hitting it off part, the sex thing is actually a lot easier. Worrying about the sexual or romantic aspect of the relationship while overlooking the fundamental health of the relationship is putting the cart before the horse and I think that wrecks a whole lot of relationships from the get go.
    Good point. Hitting it off when it's not all about sex can save a lot of heartache down the road.

    I have some very attractive friends who also get ticked when they get hit on all night just because of their looks. They don't see men going after their friends so they become paranoid, thinking nobody wants to get to know them, they just want them for their looks. (Not to say that some women aren't just going after the "hot" guys, I know that happens, too...)

  7. #82
    Cyburbian JNL's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tranplanner
    Well, you should let him know you're not interested and not drag it out.
    That's what I was thinking. Because I have had difficulties in the past where I was trying to be nice and not blunt but that meant it dragged out more than it should have. I have sent the email now - I just kept it simple and straightforward. I still feel kinda bad though - I hope it doesn't hurt his feelings.

  8. #83
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    She's A Beauty- The Tubes

    Step right up and don't be shy,
    because you will not believe your eyes.
    She's right here behind the glass
    and you're gonna like her, 'cause she's got class.
    You can look inside another world.
    You get to talk to a pretty girl.
    She's everything you dream about...
    but don't fall in love...
    She's a beauty ---
    one in a million girls, she's a beauty.
    Why would I lie?
    You can say anything you like,
    but you can't touch the merchandise.
    She'll give you every pennies worth,
    but it will cost you a dollar first.
    You can step outside your little world.
    You can talk to a pretty girl.
    She's everything you dream about...
    but don't fall in love...
    She's a beauty ---
    one in a million girls, she's a beauty.
    Why would I lie.
    RJ is the KING of . The One

  9. #84
    Cyburbian natski's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess

    I have some very attractive friends who also get ticked when they get hit on all night just because of their looks. They don't see men going after their friends so they become paranoid, thinking nobody wants to get to know them, they just want them for their looks. (Not to say that some women aren't just going after the "hot" guys, I know that happens, too...)
    I think i am one these paranoid people you talk about. But i think i am more paranoid because these guys that approach you cause they just want sex.

    But then again a male friend of mine argued the other day that it is also important initally in a relationship to find someone attractive- so it may not be that the guys are shallow a**holes but do want to know you
    "Have you ever wondered if there was more to life, other than being really, really, ridiculously good looking?" Zoolander

  10. #85
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    The whole "let's be friends" thing -- I think that's actually, on some level, an attempt to tell men that women just want to be treated like human beings, not sex objects, and want an emotional and intellectual connection first and foremost. Yes, by the time she says that, it probably means things have gone to hell and can't be worked out. But I think it often is an attempt to say that the real problem is that he is treating her like an object and like sex is the only reason to talk to her and she isn't enjoying being treated in such a dehumanizing fashion.
    You don't "tell men" all of that by saying, "Let's be friends", even if it were the case... We aren't good with subtle.

    From Playing by Heart. (If you haven't seen it, it's a good movie.)

    Meredith: Look, Trent, you're a nice guy. l--
    Trent: Aw! Aw. That's-- You know?
    Meredith: What?
    Trent: I'm swimming ashore. You can call the Coast Guard.
    Meredith: Oh, come on.
    Trent: "Nice guy"? That's-- I haven't been dismissed with that since high school.

    That's the same way we see "let's be friends"... it's simply a dismissal. If a woman really feels treated like an object and hence, dehumanized, why would she want that particular person as a friend? I would suggest she doesn't. If she's really wanting to "slow" the relationship, let her do it. I've met many women who have the "friends first" policy, but they tend only to explain it to men who they believe might one day be a partner.

    Oh, and ladies... If you dress up in a tight leather mini, black pumps, and a plunging neckline, we're not going to ignore your body like we're eunics. Here's a question. If you are dressed in a provocative manner out single in a bar, would you rather.

    a) Have a man talking to you and "sneaking" peeks at your body, or;

    b) Have a man look at you... and really take a look not a leer... then say something like, "You look very nice tonight, might I buy you a drink and get to know you a bit?" Then not check you out again (As in... eye contact while talking) for the rest of the night.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  11. #86
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    The majority of men have been treating women as "sex objects" since the beginning of mankind. It's not going to end anytime soon, so there's really no reason to make a big deal out of it. It is what it is.

    That's why when you're able to find someone to spend the rest of your life with, it really is a big deal than most people realized. That's why weddings are such a big celebration
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  12. #87
         
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff

    Here's a question. If you are dressed in a provocative manner out single in a bar, would you rather.

    a) Have a man talking to you and "sneaking" peeks at your body, or;

    b) Have a man look at you... and really take a look not a leer... then say something like, "You look very nice tonight, might I buy you a drink and get to know you a bit?" Then not check you out again (As in... eye contact while talking) for the rest of the night.
    B - and this has happened to me and it is not nearly as offensive as trying to hold a conversation with someone and them not paying a bit of attention to what I am saying. Of course I dress up when I am out (no tight mini skirts) but I do it for me, I dress how I feel comfortable and confident. Taking notice of how someone looks (and telling them so) is nice (well, depending on how its said ), gawking and not making eye contact during conversation is rude....

  13. #88
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    You don't "tell men" all of that by saying, "Let's be friends", even if it were the case... We aren't good with subtle.
    So the majority of women communicate just as poorly as the majority of men. Big deal.

    As for "why would they "want" such a person as a friend?", I think because most people are used to being treated rather poorly and most of the time are faced with a choice between "half a loaf" or "starvation" -- or even worse choices. And for other reasons.

    That doesn't mean they are being realistic or practical. From what I have seen, most folks really aren't that realistic or practical, especially when it comes to romantic relationships.

  14. #89
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    So the majority of women communicate just as poorly as the majority of men. Big deal.

    As for "why would they "want" such a person as a friend?", I think because most people are used to being treated rather poorly and most of the time are faced with a choice between "half a loaf" or "starvation" -- or even worse choices. And for other reasons.

    That doesn't mean they are being realistic or practical. From what I have seen, most folks really aren't that realistic or practical, especially when it comes to romantic relationships.
    My point was that "let's be friends" is a lame but well understood brush off, not some code that a woman wants to be respected and not objectified...

    But I'm not understanding where you went after that.... Are you saying a woman who was feeling poorly treated would rather accept it than move on and find a better person with which to share their time? If so, that's kind of sad.

    However, I think they are being quite realistic and very practical, just not forthright. They don't want a romantic relationship, they want the man to back off, but because they fear the hurt feelings they actually do him a disservice.


    LLOYD: Come on, give it to me straight. I drove a long way to see you, the least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?

    MARY: Not good.

    LLOYD: You mean not good, like one out of a hundred?

    MARY: I'd say more like one out of a million.

    LLOYD: So you're telling me there's a chance!

    (Guess it's my day for movie quotes...)


    Oh, and Jax, don't think of it as offensive at all if you can. If the fellow looked you over when he knew you'd see him, he probably wanted you to know he noticed... The whole idea is... I saw you, I liked what I saw, now can I hold a conversation with you where neither of us gets bored in two minutes.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  15. #90
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    My point was that "let's be friends" is a lame but well understood brush off, not some code that a woman wants to be respected and not objectified...
    I don't completely agree. I know it is a "common brush off". I think there is more to it than that. But it doesn't sound to me like you really want to understand what I am trying to say. Perhaps we should drop it. I'm really not looking for an argument.
    But I'm not understanding where you went after that.... Are you saying a woman who was feeling poorly treated would rather accept it than move on and find a better person with which to share their time? If so, that's kind of sad.
    A lot of people do live pretty sad lives.
    However, I think they are being quite realistic and very practical, just not forthright. They don't want a romantic relationship, they want the man to back off, but because they fear the hurt feelings they actually do him a disservice.
    I think it is more likely that "not wanting to hurt his feelings" is really code for "not wanting to provoke him". Some men can be very nasty and dangerous when they are rejected. That may feel very unfair to the decent men who wouldn't behave in a threatening manner if she told them straight up but I think it is a legitimate concern for women, and likely will not stop shaping such behaviors any time soon.

  16. #91
         
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff


    Oh, and Jax, don't think of it as offensive at all if you can. If the fellow looked you over when he knew you'd see him, he probably wanted you to know he noticed... The whole idea is... I saw you, I liked what I saw, now can I hold a conversation with you where neither of us gets bored in two minutes.
    I try not to and typically am not offended easily...I don't mind someone talking to me, I am a chatterbox and usually strike up conversation with about anyone when out. Checking someone out can be done subtly, and should be.
    I do need to find a better place to meet guys though, in my opinion the bars are for one thing, well 2 - going out and having a good time with friends or picking someone up...but where on earth am I going to meet someone besides a bar? The grocery store? The office (well I do meet tons of guys at the office and you would think we had things in common...never seems to work that way though), I don't go to church so thats out. I think I need to just stop thinking about it, thats when you always seem to meet someone...when your least expecting it....

  17. #92
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra
    ..... I think I need to just stop thinking about it, thats when you always seem to meet someone...when your least expecting it....
    I'm hesitant to respond, but this explains alot. I'm not going into details, but this is pretty much how ZG and I got connected...I still remember hovering over the "Submit reply" button....for what seemed like an hour.
    RJ is the KING of . The One

  18. #93
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    I don't completely agree. I know it is a "common brush off". I think there is more to it than that. But it doesn't sound to me like you really want to understand what I am trying to say. Perhaps we should drop it. I'm really not looking for an argument.
    I think I do understand what you're saying, I'm just not in agreement with what you wrote about it being the end of the line because the male treated the female as a sex object. If that truly is the message some women are trying to get across, it isn't working. Take this example:

    "Few phrases can shred a guy's ego faster than "Let's just be friends." Tired of being the guy all women think is a great catch, but just not the right guy for them?" - Matt Murphy of MSN Dating & Personals

    But really, don't take my word for it, just google "let's just be friends" and see what you get. A couple sites actually use the acronym LJBF!

    And this isn't an argument, it's just a discussion. But if you'd prefer to drop it, that's fine.

    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    I think it is more likely that "not wanting to hurt his feelings" is really code for "not wanting to provoke him". Some men can be very nasty and dangerous when they are rejected. That may feel very unfair to the decent men who wouldn't behave in a threatening manner if she told them straight up but I think it is a legitimate concern for women, and likely will not stop shaping such behaviors any time soon.
    Now this I can easily agree with... If a woman feels any kind of threat, though, you would want it to be clear that a romantic involvement isn't going to happen, even if she lets him down easy...
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  19. #94
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    I think I do understand what you're saying, I'm just not in agreement with what you wrote about it being the end of the line because the male treated the female as a sex object.
    My impression is that we would need to first come to a better understanding of what each of us means by the expression "sex object". And, sure, there can be other reasons why a relationship doesn't work. I just think the most common issue is that most men get a lot of their ego needs and other needs met via work, friends, etc. and primarily seek out female companionship for sex. I think there is a lot of merit to the saying that "men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love". But I really don't know that I am up to such a conversation, which is unlikely to be an easy one in such a public forum.

    Now this I can easily agree with... If a woman feels any kind of threat, though, you would want it to be clear that a romantic involvement isn't going to happen, even if she lets him down easy...
    The problem is that a woman is most in danger of being assaulted or even dying when she LEAVES (or otherwise rejects a man). A man who has beaten his wife for years will commit murder in order to prevent her from leaving him. Even men who do not have a history of violence sometimes do very threatening things when they are rejected, especially if they are more emotionally invested than usual in the relationship.

  20. #95
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    My impression is that we would need to first come to a better understanding of what each of us means by the expression "sex object". And, sure, there can be other reasons why a relationship doesn't work. I just think the most common issue is that most men get a lot of their ego needs and other needs met via work, friends, etc. and primarily seek out female companionship for sex. I think there is a lot of merit to the saying that "men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love". But I really don't know that I am up to such a conversation, which is unlikely to be an easy one in such a public forum.
    Not really... The reason we wouldn't need to be define the meaning of "sex object" is because it's a non-issue for me. All of what you have said may be true in the instance of an existing relationship, even a very fledgling one. The point I made, and still contend, is that a woman saying "let's just be friends" doesn't mean that at all. She most likely wants you to leave her alone. Is it because she feels like the man thinks she's a piece of meat? Maybe... But not the issue. It would just be one instance of a woman not wanting a male to persue her...

    Our perfect case in point is this very thread! JNL hasn't said anything about the man in question treating her in the manner which you suggest, rather, she just has no interest. Nor, it seems, does she wish to be friends. So... were she to use Donk's suggestion (sorry Donk), she would simply be using the same hackneyed line so many men have heard... and sadly, understand.

    (I didn't adress the other point since we basically agree...)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  21. #96
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff
    Not really... The reason we wouldn't need to be define the meaning of "sex object" is because it's a non-issue for me. All of what you have said may be true in the instance of an existing relationship, even a very fledgling one. The point I made, and still contend, is that a woman saying "let's just be friends" doesn't mean that at all. She most likely wants you to leave her alone. Is it because she feels like the man thinks she's a piece of meat? Maybe... But not the issue. It would just be one instance of a woman not wanting a male to persue her...

    Our perfect case in point is this very thread! JNL hasn't said anything about the man in question treating her in the manner which you suggest, rather, she just has no interest. Nor, it seems, does she wish to be friends. So... were she to use Donk's suggestion (sorry Donk), she would simply be using the same hackneyed line so many men have heard... and sadly, understand.

    (I didn't adress the other point since we basically agree...)
    My impression is that JNL wouldn't actually want to be friends. If so, it would be an outright lie as well.

    I know a lot of people, men and women, in dating situations and in other situations, use canned phrases like "Call me" when they don't mean it at all. My suggestion is that the hackneyed phrase "let's just be friends" grows subconsciously out of this other stuff -- not necessarily a direct statement about a specific relationship. I once found myself telling a guy "We used to also be friends. What happened to that? I am feeling really used here." He didn't get it. I found his company less and less pleasant. So I spent less time with him, while trying to communicate what I felt had gone wrong in hopes of fixing it because I had really liked him at one time. His reaction was to begin accusing me "there's someone else, isn't there?" -- which just alienated me all the more. To me, the accusation "there's someone else" when I was withdrawing because the relationship had become one-sided is just another expression of the idea that he was entitled to get his needs met at my expense and treat me like a "possession" or object, not a human being with needs of my own and entitled to meet them as well. It was just further proof that it was all about his needs, his rights, etc and not about an actual relationship between human beings. I think women often refer to the "friends" thing because freindship is a human relationship based on mutual benefit. A lot of romantic relationships quickly cease to be based on mutual benefit and mutual enjoyment.

    Anyway, when I was trying to fix the above relationship, I was reminded of that hackneyed phrase -- "let's just be friends" -- and it seemed to me that perhaps a lot of women are trying desperately to communicate a desire for romantic relationships which are as mutually fulfilling as friendship typically is. I wasn't trying to give the guy the brush-off. I was trying to tell him what I needed from him in order to remain and continue to be willing to meet his needs.

    And if that doesn't make it clear, then just chalk this up to "MZ is clearly in la la land today". I'm unbelievably tired and perhaps not communicating effectively.

  22. #97
         
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    So Friday night I met up with an old friend for a few drinks (he left the Cards/Cubs game early to meet me so I didn't have to sit at the bar alone )...anyway he's an old friend, I have known him for about 10 years and we lost touch the past few years. Met up Friday and had a great time, he called Sunday evening and may be going to the Cards game Wedneday night . May be something, may be nothing but for the first time in quite sometime I made an effort AND he's a nice guy, not the typical looser I usually find myself interested in

    Finally I get to post in this thread about something positive

  23. #98
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra
    Finally I get to post in this thread about something positive
    Good for you. Have fun, Jaxs.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra
    not the typical looser I usually find myself interested in
    I thought you said he was a Cards fan...

    Good for you Jax!

  25. #100
    Cyburbian donk's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra
    Finally I get to post in this thread about something positive
    Congrats, have fun and I am working on good news too.
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

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