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Thread: Political Points to Ponder

  1. #1
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    Political Points to Ponder

    After meetings with Iowa's US Senators yesterday and this morning, I have a question. Since time and again both parties say that "local law enforcment is our front line in the War on Terror", what would have happened if we had dumped all of the money spent in Iraq would have been spent on local law enforcement? BTW the President's budget makes huge cuts to several law enforcement programs and will result in fewer officers if it would be adopted as written.

    I also learned that both side's immigration bills are stupid, do not do much of anything and are impossible to implement.

    And lastly,

    Although it has been reduced, there still is pork to be had.
    ďAs soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fallĒ
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  2. #2
    Cyburbian eightiesfan's avatar
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    Honestly I don't think any amount of money can stop terrorism, no matter what ageny gets it. If somebody wants to get you they are going to get you. I don't believe local law enforcement would have much of an impact on terrorists, if they are that close to you it's too late.

    The immigration issue, hmmm, that's a whole other can of worms. I can't see an easy way out of that one. We've structured our economy around illegal's working here in the USA.

    The pork isn't an issue to me.
    Regrets, I've had a few; But then again, too many to mention.

  3. #3
    Pork isn't an issue for me either thankfully haha

  4. #4
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I think that you are right. The war in Iraq is run it’s course, and it is time to start bring troops home. In return, I think that more money should be spent on law enforcement.

    I think that immigration is an issue in the US. I think that people should be able to come to the US if they plan on becoming US citizens and are learning English.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    I think that you are right. The war in Iraq is run itís course, and it is time to start bring troops home. In return, I think that more money should be spent on law enforcement.

    I think that immigration is an issue in the US. I think that people should be able to come to the US if they plan on becoming US citizens and are learning English.

    We still have a lot of work to do in Iraq. We broke it no we have to fix it. In Bagdad the infrastructure is worse off than it was under Sadam. The same can be said for the oil infrastructure. Pulling the troops out could result in a civil war and create a true terrorist haven. I think the best answer is set the new Iraqi government up so success by reparing the infrastructure we destroyed in the invasion, train their police forces and then move our troops out of the country but to other areas within the region in case a neighbor decides they want to invade.

    Regardless of what we think the US is building large bases and a huge embassy so US troops will be in Iraq for a long time. Here is an article form Newsweek about it.

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12441799/site/newsweek/


    As for law enforcement we need more money but it needs to be spent correctly. Block grants that let locals decide what the proirity is and not Washington. My local PD is short an officer and cannot afford to hire one but most the grants are for equipment and training. All the equipment in the world is nice but if you don't have the officer on patrol to use it, what good will it do?
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    And from The Twilight Zone

    I think we would be better of being more family-friendly and making it easier on parents who want to spend a little quality time with their kids.

    And education reform -- something meaningful. Like getting rid of the federal department of education so teachers can focus on students, not on test scores.

    Then "local" stuff like our police instead of going to war overseas. I think the "war on terror" in incredibly misguided, to say the least.


    Now y'all know why I don't usually like discussing politics. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    Terrorism is just a convenient justification for U.S. Imperialism. While 9-11 was unprecedented in scale; like our gas prices, our level of terroism is still relatively low by global standards.

    As for more law enforcement: I would say decriminalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana and you'd have 5-10% more $ for the rest of the law enforcement budget right there.

    As for immigration: Abolish all immigration barriers. Look at what the E.U. did. Any citizen of the EU can now basically live and work anywhere in the EU that they want. (Adopting a common currency helped in no small part.) Now if only the rest of the world would do this.....

    If you're born in a h*ll-hole desert wasteland with few natural resouces, why should individual states be allowed to keep you out? Keeping them out, just increases their misery which increases their birth rate which increases global misery which eventually comes home to roost within our borders anyway. We've got to think holistically. When I hear a story that another American has been kidnapped or killed in some far away place - I don't care that they are American - I care that another person died or may unjustly.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  8. #8
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by giff57
    BTW the President's budget makes huge cuts to several law enforcement programs and will result in fewer officers if it would be adopted as written.
    This is caused a huge stir here locally. Funding for our drug task force would be cut if this passes. It is funded by the Byrne Justice Assistance Grants.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...7/justice.html
    Eliminating Non-performing Programs
    The Presidentís Budget reduces or eliminates a number of programs that do not have a record of producing results, including:

    The State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP), which serves as a form of revenue sharing rather than a program to improve Federal immigration-related enforcement. The President is committed to protecting our borders and enforcing immigration laws. The Presidentís 2007 Budget reflects this commitment by proposing a 34-percent increase in Government-wide immigration enforcement and a 90-percent increase since 2001. These increases will support initiatives to expedite removal of illegal immigrants and expand successful partnerships between Federal, State, and local entities committed to immigration enforcement. Currently, SCAAP is not focused on crime reduction and cannot demonstrate an impact on crime, and there is no requirement that funds be used to address local crime or correctional issues. A 2003 Program Assessment Rating Tool (PART) assessment rated SCAAP as Results Not Demonstrated. Ending this program will save $400 million a year.

    General purpose State and local law enforcement programs, such as the Byrne Justice Assistance Grants, which are not able to demonstrate an impact on reducing crime. A 2005 PART assessment of the Byrne Justice Assistance Grants also found the programís lack of long-term goals and measures inhibited targeting of resources to address real crime needs, notwithstanding funding of $542 million in 2005 and $327 million in 2006. Eliminating this program will save $327 million a year.

    Programs such as the Byrne Discretionary Grants and the COPS Law Enforcement Technology Grants, which are earmarked in their entirety by the Congress. Such programs prevent targeting of assistance based on competitive need. Eliminating these programs will save $317 million a year.

    Juvenile Accountability Block Grants (JABG), which provide a variety of non-focused juvenile justice grants to States and localities. A 2002 PART assessment rated JABG as Ineffective. Without undergoing a major redesign, the program cannot target resources effectively. Terminating this program will save $49 million a year.
    It looks as though Congress is adding funding to Byrne Grants into their versions. If they pass, the program will be fully funded with $900 million. Funding has been cut in recent years to $542 mil in 2005 and $327 mil in 2006, so $900 mil will be a big boost.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by savemattoon
    so $900 mil will be a big boost.
    Maybe not a big boost, more like back to 2003 levels

    from http://www.senate.gov/~dayton/news/d....cfm?id=252670
    *FY 2006 ó $416 million, a 54 percent cut from FY 2003
    *FY 2005 ó $634 million
    *FY 2004 ó $725 million
    *FY 2003 ó $900 million

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    I agree with dobopoq.....decriminalize weed. I am not and haven't been a mary-gee-wanna user but the laws, the fines, the waste of resources.....humbug.

    Back-on-main-topic.....

    If all of the Iraq War monies had gone to local groups it probably would have made a considerable difference with police departments in major cities. Most likely there would be better plans (and drills) for preventing terrorist activities that might involve public transit and national (or popular) monuments and sites.

    Smaller communities would have received much smaller amounts and those funds wouldn't have much of an impact.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  11. #11
    Cyburbian biscuit's avatar
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    what a big, broad topic

    From my POV it seems that redirecting funds to local law enforcement for terrorism prevention/response isn't going to make much of a difference, at least not the way the federal government currently doles it out. For example, Anderson County, SC recently used $800,000 in Homeland Security funds to purchase a mobile terrorism response command center. This thing is an armored vehicle compete with plasma televisions, robot cameras and lab equipment. I'm sure the authorities are thrilled to have such a tool, but other than the weekend once a year when some form of Lynyrd Skynyrd shows up to perform at the hot air balloon festival (which is a nice time), I don't think a place like Anderson is much of a strategic target for terrorism in the US. At the same time, places like the metro area I live, and the Kanawa Valley in West Virginia, are lined with potentially dangerous chemical plants and little money is being put into place to better secure them.

    So, yeah, we can spend it locally, but it seems that our priorities are a bit misdirected on the federal level.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian
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    EM-50 urban assault vehicle

    Quote Originally posted by biscuit
    Anderson County, SC recently used $800,000 in Homeland Security funds to purchase a mobile terrorism response command center. This thing is an armored vehicle compete with plasma televisions, robot cameras and lab equipment.
    Does it look like this?

  13. #13
    Member Wulf9's avatar
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    The main point to ponder. Unfortunately, I don't have this updated since 2003,





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    Quote Originally posted by Wulf9
    The main point to ponder. Unfortunately, I don't have this updated since 2003,
    Ah, yes. Fiscally conservative GOP.

    I agree with Bear and dobcq vis a vis the marijuana thing (not my addiction, by the way. I, alas, am a slave of the cane and the bean (cacao and sugarcane )

    I even sympathize with doboc's more radical approach to immigration. As a no-growther by sentiment, this is a difficult issue for me. But, as with "drugs," you're trying to stop a basic positive human activity-migration to a better way of life. My opinions have bveen evolving, especially as I observe the leadership of the anti-immigration movement (scary, scary people like ReichsKomissar Sensebrenner, an amazingly fascist Congressman that Wisconsin should be embarraseed to call its own!!!!)

  15. #15
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Notice how you don't hear tax and spend liberals anymore? I guess thats why the political right turned to Jesus.

    Funny thing is, if Jesus was around today, they would call him a dirty hippie.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  16. #16
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner
    Notice how you don't hear tax and spend liberals anymore? I guess thats why the political right turned to Jesus.

    Funny thing is, if Jesus was around today, they would call him a dirty hippie.
    Good point. Conservatives seem to be appropriating the opposite of who they really are, and using it as their public image.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq
    Good point. Conservatives seem to be appropriating the opposite of who they really are, and using it as their public image.

    Hence the increasing howls of rage from the old right (Paul Craig Roberts) and even the scary right (Patrick Buchanan) about Bush.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wulf9
    The main point to ponder. Unfortunately, I don't have this updated since 2003.
    I just noticed that the budget starting to drop before Clinton left office?

    I also wonder what it would look like of 9/11, the war, Katrina and other hurricanes never happened.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  19. #19
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    I just noticed that the budget starting to drop before Clinton left office?

    I also wonder what it would look like of 9/11, the war, Katrina and other hurricanes never happened.
    It might have dropped, but it was still running at a surplus.

    I think while you wonder on what might have been, you might consider some of the things that happened during the Clinton years. Flooding? Hurricanes? You bet... A fellow named James Witt was running FEMA, and was running it darned well. We had a working natural disaster mitigation program that in the last six years has gone from excellent to so bad the latest studies say it should be scrapped.

    Clinton also had the Balkans war as well as the Somalia debacle.

    I know you are a right-wing guy and a Republican, but do you really stand for the same things as Bush? When the smoke clears it's quite obvious he only cares about his friends and big business. I mean where is all that money going? Things are no better in Iraq or New Orleans... just ask the people who are there instead of the White House press secretary.
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