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Thread: Major Sports Franchise Musical Chairs

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Major Sports Franchise Musical Chairs

    Yesterday in the workplace I was talking with a new employee. He is a college student (Miami of Ohio) who will be working with us as a seasonal employee for the Summer. Our get-to-know-each-other conversation touched on NBA basketball. He is a Cleveland Cav fan and said he has been a fan for many years. I said, "I have been a fan of the Pistons since they were in Fort Wayne."

    His look said it all. "They were in Fort Wayne? Indiana?"

    "Yep", was my smiling response.
    _____

    How many of you can recall the movements of some of your favorite teams, from city to city.....even from league to league? When you look at the four major sports in the USA and Canada, it is quite a history. Here are some examples.....

    Baseball
    The movement I still remember the most happened when I was a kid and just getting in to baseball. The New York Giants moved to San Francisco (which didn't seem to bother many) and the beloved Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Los Angeles.

    Hockey
    The travels of hockey franchises are near-legendary. Anybody remember the Cleveland Barons? How about the Kansas City Scouts? The Scouts became the Colorado Rockies and then moved on to New Jersey (to become the Devils). I can still remember the Winnipeg Jet jokes....."Lose-I-Peg Jets".....and they moved to Phoenix. Smart.....moving from one of the coldest annual temperature cities to one of the warmest annual temperature cities.

    Basketball
    I mentioned the Fort Wayne Pistons. They moved to Detroit in 1957. Other NBA teams included Minneapolis' Lakers moving to Los Angeles, the Jazz moving from New Orleans to Utah, the Rochester Royals eventually ending up as the Sacramento Kings.

    Football
    Here in Ohio there are still pixxed-off Cleveland Browns fans.....angry at owner Art Modell for moving that historic franchise to Baltimore (Ravens). The NFL did something strange when that move happened.....because the Browns were "so" NFL historic they promised them a new team with the same name. Jax is a fan of a team that used to be in Los Angeles (Rams). The original St. Louis NFL team (Cardinals) is now in Phoenix. And the Raiders have bounced back and forth from northern California to southern California.

    Leagues
    Some of the changes and expansion was influenced by competing professional leagues, such as the American Basketball Association (ABA) and their striped ball, the American Football League (and their wide-open style of play), ETC.
    _____

    Anybody have memories, fond or otherwise, of fave franchises moving around?

    Bear Not At Syracuse
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Plus JNA's avatar
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    Great list of
    Relocation of professional sports teams


    Looks like an interesting book:
    Playing the Field : Why Sports Teams Move and Cities Fight to Keep Them by Charles C. Euchner
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  3. #3
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    Yesterday in the workplace I was talking with a new employee. He is a college student (Miami of Ohio) who will be working with us as a seasonal employee for the Summer. Our get-to-know-each-other conversation touched on NBA basketball. He is a Cleveland Cav fan and said he has been a fan for many years. I said, "I have been a fan of the Pistons since they were in Fort Wayne."

    His look said it all. "They were in Fort Wayne? Indiana?"

    "Yep", was my smiling response.
    _____

    How many of you can recall the movements of some of your favorite teams, from city to city.....even from league to league? When you look at the four major sports in the USA and Canada, it is quite a history. Here are some examples.....

    Baseball
    The movement I still remember the most happened when I was a kid and just getting in to baseball. The New York Giants moved to San Francisco (which didn't seem to bother many) and the beloved Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Los Angeles.
    The Orioles were originally the Saint Louis, OH Browns.
    The Brewers were originally the Seattle, WA Pilots (playing all of one season there).
    The Oakland Athletics started out as the Philadelphia, PA Athletics, moving to Oakland by way of Kansas City.
    There were two 'Washington, DC Senators', one became the Texas Rangers and I forget offhand where the other went.


    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    Hockey
    The travels of hockey franchises are near-legendary. Anybody remember the Cleveland Barons? How about the Kansas City Scouts? The Scouts became the Colorado Rockies and then moved on to New Jersey (to become the Devils). I can still remember the Winnipeg Jet jokes....."Lose-I-Peg Jets".....and they moved to Phoenix. Smart.....moving from one of the coldest annual temperature cities to one of the warmest annual temperature cities.

    Basketball
    I mentioned the Fort Wayne Pistons. They moved to Detroit in 1957. Other NBA teams included Minneapolis' Lakers moving to Los Angeles, the Jazz moving from New Orleans to Utah, the Rochester Royals eventually ending up as the Sacramento Kings.

    Football
    Here in Ohio there are still pixxed-off Cleveland Browns fans.....angry at owner Art Modell for moving that historic franchise to Baltimore (Ravens). The NFL did something strange when that move happened.....because the Browns were "so" NFL historic they promised them a new team with the same name. Jax is a fan of a team that used to be in Los Angeles (Rams). The original St. Louis NFL team (Cardinals) is now in Phoenix. And the Raiders have bounced back and forth from northern California to southern California.
    The Rams started their life out in Cleveland, OH.
    The Cardinals started their life out as the Chicago, IL Cardinals (they were the dominant team in Chicago)
    The Lions were originally the Portsmouth, OH Spartans
    The Bears were originally the Decatur, IL Staleys
    OTOH
    The Green Bay Packers were originally the . . . Green Bay Packers.

    Mike

  4. #4
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Let's not forget some recent teams that have been all over the map. In NBA: take for example the Grizziles and the Hornets.

    The Grizzlies were an expansion team created in the mid 1990s and started out as the Vancouver Grizziles. Now they are the Memphis Grizziles.

    Then there's the Hornets. I don't think the Hornets have been around forever. They started out in Charlotte, then moved to New Orleans recently, then to Oklahoma City after Katrina, and now I don't know where they are. Meanwhile, Charlotte has an NBA team once again...The Bobcats
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920
    There were two 'Washington, DC Senators', one became the Texas Rangers and I forget offhand where the other went.
    Mike
    If this old Bear's memory is serving me correctly, the other Washington, DC. team moved to Minnesota and "had Twins". I remember this because Harmon Killebrew was originally a bonus baby with the Washington version.

    Also, can't forget the combination of a couple NFL teams, during war years. Philadelpha and Pittsburgh had a season or two as the Steagles.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  6. #6

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    If I were czar of all things professional sports, I would proclaim that teams that change cities MUST adopt a new nickname appropriate to the new environs. There should be NO MORE:

    Los Angeles Lakers
    Memphis Grizzlies
    Utah Jazz
    St. Louis Rams
    Los Angeles Dodgers (although this has been around too long to matter now)

    Also, the NFL's Rams started in Cleveland and then moved to LA, and the NFL Cardinals moved from Chicago to St. Louis in 1960.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    I did an entire thesis on this very topic. I called it "Stadiums, a broken leg for cities" if I recall right. I used stats and regressions, back when I remember how to use SPSS to show any coralation between city size, amount of public vs. private captical used to fund a team or stadium and what that meant to bottom line. I basically boiled it down to the X factor which I called prestiege and that cities will spend millions on this prestiege factor (noone wants to be the mayor that lost the _______s).

    If anyone is interested in a copy of my report (I'll dig it up) just PM me or if you want more info, like if I find my conclusions I'll post them.
    @GigCityPlanner

  8. #8
    Cyburbian the north omaha star's avatar
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    There are people here in Baltimore still P'O'ed about the Colts moving to Indy.
    My Mom has a picture me and her at a Kansas City-Omaha Kings game at the Civic Auditorium in Omaha. Point-guard great Nate "Tiny" Archibald's wife is from Omaha. I don't know why or how the NBA approved the KC-Omaha Kings. The 2 cities are 3 hours apart. It may have happened due to the construction of that dump called Kemper Arena.
    I am recognizing that the voice inside my head
    is urging me to be myself but never follow someone else
    Because opinions are like voices we all have a different kind". --Q-Tip

  9. #9
    Cyburbian
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    Don't forget the Clippers? They were the buffalo Braves, the San Diego Clippers, then the LA Clippers. The Atlanta Hawks originally in St. Louis. The Houston Rockets were originally the San Diego Rockets. I also think the 76ers started in Syracuse While the Philadelphia Warriors moved to San francisco and eventually to Oakland and were renamed the Golden State Warriors. I wonder if there are other pro teams out there that do not have either a state or city in their name like the warriors? I can't think of one of the top of my head.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian donk's avatar
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    Can't forget the Montreal Expos.

    Or in CFL the ottawa renegades, who were the roughriders just rebranded and are now no more.

    Farm league hockey, teams move around all the time.

    As for NHL - the nordiques and jets come to mind immediately. Not sure who they became.
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Joe Iliff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by cololi
    I wonder if there are other pro teams out there that do not have either a state or city in their name like the warriors? I can't think of one of the top of my head.
    New England Patriots of the NFL are named for a region.

    There are some minor league teams named for regions or metropolitan areas, like the Quad City River Bandits or Grand Canyon Rafters or High Desert Mavericks or West Michigan Whitecaps or Lake County Captains or Rio Grande Valley Whitewings.
    JOE ILIFF
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  12. #12
    Cyburbian Plan-it's avatar
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    How about the team with the most consecutive penants in MLB the Atlanta (formerly Boston) Braves!
    Satellite City Enabler

  13. #13
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    When the Detroit Red Wings were first formed in 1926 they purchased the entire roster of the Victoria Cougars of the Western Hockey League. They were named the Detroit Cougars, then the Detroit Falcons, and finally the Detroit Red Wings in 1932.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Coragus's avatar
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    The Hartford Whalers became the Carolina Huricanes. I remember that because of a player named John Cullen. He was exiled (traded) to the Whalers from the Penguens the first year Pittsburgh won the Stanley Cup. Then the Whalers had to move the year before their stadium was done being built.

    I talked about this last night with my non-hockey oriented wife. I'm pulling for the Sabres myself. A Sabres-Oilers Finals would be great.
    The cookies are worth the drive

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Plan-it
    How about the team with the most consecutive penants in MLB the Atlanta (formerly Boston) Braves!
    By way of Milwaukee.

    EDIT: Actually, they've won the most consecutive Division Championships, not League Pennants.
    Last edited by Richmond Jake; 25 May 2006 at 9:07 PM.
    Annoyingly insensitive

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Joe Iliff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Coragus
    The Hartford Whalers became the Carolina Huricanes.
    Oh, I forgot about the Carolina Panthers, Carolina Hurricane, and Carolina Cougars, all regional names.

    Good catch!
    JOE ILIFF
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  17. #17
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    As far as name changes go....

    ...California Angels
    ...Anaheim Angels
    ...Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim


    BTW...great thread Bear
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  18. #18
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I am still not happy that the Minnesota North Stars moved to Dallas.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    I had read somewhere in the profound annals for NHL history, that the Chicago Blackhawks were established in the Windy City after the Portland (Ore.) Rosebuds decided to hang up the blade and move from the City of Roses.

    Anyone confirm this? I gotta run to a meeting.

    ...and with that...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  20. #20
    Cyburbian nerudite's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk
    As for NHL - the nordiques and jets come to mind immediately. Not sure who they became.
    I thought the nordiques became colorado and the jets went to Phoenix. Don't forget the Northstars moving to Dallas. Grrrr.

    And then there is the Hartford Whalers to Carolina.

    Anyone remember the California Golden Seals?

    And yeah, there used to be a Rosebuds in Portland. I think that's why the Portland WHL team (the Winterhawks) have the Blackhawks logo on their jerseys.

    I hear that Mighty is being dropped from the Ducks next season. How appropriate

  21. #21
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Joe Iliff
    New England Patriots of the NFL are named for a region.

    There are some minor league teams named for regions or metropolitan areas, like the Quad City River Bandits or Grand Canyon Rafters or High Desert Mavericks or West Michigan Whitecaps or Lake County Captains or Rio Grande Valley Whitewings.
    How could I have forgotten that? And the Carolina teams.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Also in the NHL, the Calgary Flames were previously the Atlanta Flames.

    Mike

  23. #23
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    I said, "I have been a fan of the Pistons since they were in Fort Wayne."

    His look said it all. "They were in Fort Wayne? Indiana?"

    "Yep", was my smiling response.
    _____

    What were they called when they were in Indiana?

    I always thought that the pistons were always a detriot team. Mainly because of the obvious connection of the name to the automobile.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner
    What were they called when they were in Indiana?

    I always thought that the pistons were always a detriot team. Mainly because of the obvious connection of the name to the automobile.
    They were called the Fort Wayne Pistons.

    They were originally named after the owner Fred Zollner, who owned an auto manufacturing business in Fort Wayne, hence the "Pistons"
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  25. #25
    Cyburbian the north omaha star's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Plan-it
    How about the team with the most consecutive penants in MLB the Atlanta (formerly Boston) Braves!

    You only win a pennant if you represent your league in the World Series. What the Braves have are most consecutive division titles, I think.

    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN
    I had read somewhere in the profound annals for NHL history, that the Chicago Blackhawks were established in the Windy City after the Portland (Ore.) Rosebuds decided to hang up the blade and move from the City of Roses.

    Anyone confirm this? I gotta run to a meeting.

    ...and with that...

    The Blackhawks are a member of the "Original 6" along with Boston, Detroit, Montreal, Toronto and New York Rangers.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 26 May 2006 at 1:35 PM.
    I am recognizing that the voice inside my head
    is urging me to be myself but never follow someone else
    Because opinions are like voices we all have a different kind". --Q-Tip

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