Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: Fordham Spire

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Jan 2006
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    58

    Fordham Spire

    http://www.arcspace.com/architects/c...m/fordham.html
    So what do you all think about i? I'm guessing negative. I like it better than the Freedom ower which is of a similiar concept. It doesn't look like it will happen, but I think the world's tallest building belongs in Chicago.

  2. #2
    It reminds me of a white Twizzler. I agree that it would be better than the Freedom Tower, but that's not saying much.

  3. #3
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Staff meeting
    Posts
    8,329
    Bah.....forget the "tallest in the world" crap, and worry more about the poor pedestrian orientation of the Streeterville neighborhood (where the tower is/was proposed).
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

    Six seasons and a movie!

  4. #4
         
    Registered
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally posted by mendelman
    Bah.....forget the "tallest in the world" crap, and worry more about the poor pedestrian orientation of the Streeterville neighborhood (where the tower is/was proposed).
    What are you talking about the poor pedestrian orientation!? There's a giant park and underpasses to the lakefront every 1/2 mile. Small, street level groceries and deli's. Hidden Parking Garages. The Navy Pier and shopping and metra Free Trolleys. Sure there's alot of cars but there's probably that many in suburbs' busy streets (maybe Oak Park?) or at least anywhere else in down town and Streeterville is one of the most densley populated places in the country, next to one of the richest, of course people are going to have cars. Don't forget the Lakefront Bike Path, Navy Pier, Oak and Ohio Street Beaches, Lakeshore Park and Michigan Ave

  5. #5
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Down by Dun Ringill
    Posts
    6,043
    Blog entries
    6
    Whew. Glad they don't build anything like that here. Looks like a drill bit.
    Last edited by otterpop; 02 Jun 2006 at 6:06 PM.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  6. #6
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Staff meeting
    Posts
    8,329
    Quote Originally posted by burnham follower
    What are you talking about the poor pedestrian orientation!? There's a giant park and underpasses to the lakefront every 1/2 mile. Small, street level groceries and deli's. Hidden Parking Garages. The Navy Pier and shopping and metra Free Trolleys. Sure there's alot of cars but there's probably that many in suburbs' busy streets (maybe Oak Park?) or at least anywhere else in down town and Streeterville is one of the most densley populated places in the country, next to one of the richest, of course people are going to have cars. Don't forget the Lakefront Bike Path, Navy Pier, Oak and Ohio Street Beaches, Lakeshore Park and Michigan Ave
    Well, I didn't say it was non-existant. But from my numerous sojourns to the neighborhood, I have found it mostly lacking in sidewalk accommodations for the pedestrian - narrow sidewalks, large blank building/garage walls adjoining the sidewalk, surface parking lots, etc. Granted this is starting to really disappear and change with the massive about of development consuming the surface parking lots and adding much more storefront/sidewalk interest for the pedestrian.

    And certainly the neighborhood's location in the context of the city is amazing - next to the Lake, offices/shopping on Michigan Ave and the Loop.

    But be careful, density of population and high income does not, automatically, equate to good pedestrian environments. Some portions of Mid-town Manhattan have high population and upper-income density, but the streets are relatively dead.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

    Six seasons and a movie!

  7. #7
    I find it has some elegance to it. As contemporary skyscrapers go this is one of the least obnoxious, certainly preferable to "designs" (whatever happened to plans?) like the Freedom Tower or the gigantic Burj Dubai. Let's not even mention Gehry.

    Calatrava has some talent, perhaps because he wasn't trained as an architect, although Turning Torso is just stupid.

  8. #8
         
    Registered
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    160
    I agree with Jaws. Calling this ugly or a failure or anything is scaring people away from bringing architecture back into an art rather than it being a giant version of Lego's. Buildings will get bigger, Calatrava is just making sure bigger doesn't = boxier

    And to Mendelman....I agree there could be more interction in some places between building and street but it is better than many areas

  9. #9
    Form ever follows function. This form follows what function?

  10. #10
         
    Registered
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally posted by Gedunker
    Form ever follows function. This form follows what function?
    Who says form must follow function? Why can't function follow form? Form following function gives us box stores, designed and built to keep costs low like everything else about it. And it gives us modern suburban tract housing with giant garage doors like jaws of some hellish oil hungry creature. fuction following form gives us great civic art that we are proud to look at for more than "it's big"

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Plus
    Registered
    Jun 2003
    Location
    De Noc
    Posts
    18,164
    Quote Originally posted by mokbubble
    So what do you all think about i? I'm guessing negative.
    Quote Originally posted by Gedunker
    It reminds me of a white Twizzler.
    You are both right.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally posted by Gedunker
    Form ever follows function. This form follows what function?
    Actually the twisting is supposed to help with wind resistance.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    City of Low Low Wages!
    Posts
    3,236
    This thread is a dup of this:

    http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18879

    Merge?
    Reality does not conform to your ideology.
    http://neighborhoods.chicago.il.us Photographs of Life in the Neighborhoods of Chicago
    http://hafd.org/~jordanb/ Pretentious Weblog.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Jan 2006
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    58
    go ahead and merge them

  15. #15
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    1,584
    Having only looked at the photo, knowing nothing else about it:

    I like it. Stately form. Curvy bits. Tasty.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered
    Jun 2006
    Location
    new york
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally posted by jaws
    I find it has some elegance to it. As contemporary skyscrapers go this is one of the least obnoxious, certainly preferable to "designs" (whatever happened to plans?) like the Freedom Tower or the gigantic Burj Dubai. Let's not even mention Gehry.

    Calatrava has some talent, perhaps because he wasn't trained as an architect, although Turning Torso is just stupid.
    WAIT A MINUTE....YOU SAY CALATRAVA HAS SOME TALENT BECAUSE HE WAS TRAINED AS AN ARCHITECT..AND YOU KNOCK GHERHY WHO IS AN ARCHITECT...JAWS YOU ARE FOREVER COTRIDICTING YOURSELF. WHAT IS YOUR FEAR OF ANYTHING NEW BASED ON?

  17. #17
    Cyburbian iamme's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Milwaukee
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally posted by THX0097
    WAIT A MINUTE....YOU SAY CALATRAVA HAS SOME TALENT BECAUSE HE WAS TRAINED AS AN ARCHITECT..AND YOU KNOCK GHERHY WHO IS AN ARCHITECT...JAWS YOU ARE FOREVER COTRIDICTING YOURSELF. WHAT IS YOUR FEAR OF ANYTHING NEW BASED ON?
    Buddy, settle down with your tirade against jaws. However, if you must continue, at least read what is writtem. Jaws said Calatrava has some talent because he wasn't trained as an architect. He was trained as an engineer if I'm not mistaken.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered
    Jun 2006
    Location
    new york
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally posted by iamme
    Buddy, settle down with your tirade against jaws. However, if you must continue, at least read what is writtem. Jaws said Calatrava has some talent because he wasn't trained as an architect. He was trained as an engineer if I'm not mistaken.
    HI BUDDY.
    YOU ARE MISTAKEN CALATRAVA WAS TRAINED AS AN ARCHITECT AND AN ENGINEER. AS FOR MY DISCUSSION WITH JAWS....WHAT DO YOU CARE? IS THIS A DEMOCRATIC SPACE WHERE WE CAN COME AND DISCUSS AND DEEBATE IDEAS? ALSO IF AS A WAY OF TESTING MY OWN BELIEFS AND IDEALS I READ SOME POSTINGS BY SOMEONE WHO HAS TAKEN A STANCE THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN MINE AND THEN I NOTICE SOME INCONSITENCIES IN THEIR DEBATE AND I CHALLENGE THEM ON IT AND THEY EXPLAIN IT AND I REALIZE I MAY BE WRONG OR I SHOULD LEARN MORE ABOUT SOMETHING, OR THEY DO....ISN'T THAT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT...PUBLIC DEBATE ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE???? OR IS THIS ABOUT EVERYONE JUST AGREEING ON THE SAME THING AND REINFORCING OUR IGNORANCE??? OH BY THE WAY PARDON MY CAPITALS I'M USING ANOTHER PROGRAM AND IT REQUIRES CAPITALS...I'M NOT SHOUTING...ACTUALLY I'M QUIETLY TYPING AT WORK AND HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING IN THE PAST 5 MINUTES....

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Luca's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,150
    Yo THX, can you see that key on your keyboard that says "Caps Lock"? Now press it. You'll notice that the little 'caps lock' light has gone off. Thank you.




    Or as they say in TROLL: "Urh, bffpp, akha akha guurg. Eeeighsh"

    Life and death of great pattern languages

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered
    Jun 2006
    Location
    new york
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally posted by Luca
    Yo THX, can you see that key on your keyboard that says "Caps Lock"? Now press it. You'll notice that the little 'caps lock' light has gone off. Thank you.




    Or as they say in TROLL: "Urh, bffpp, akha akha guurg. Eeeighsh"

    YEAH AS I DESCRIBED IN ANOTHER FORUM, I'M WORKING AND MOVING BETWEEN THIS AND ANOTHER PROGRAM WHICH REQUIRES CAPS...IF YOU'LL NOTICE MY AFTER HOURS POSTS ARE NOT IN CAPS THIS IS BECAUSE I'M HOME AND NO LONGER USING THE WORK SOFTWARE. I THINK WE'RE ALL ABLE TO SEE PAST THE CAPS TO THE POINTS I'M MAKING, NO?

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Luca's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,150
    Hey Jaws and BKM, et al., have any of you seen the Calatrava concert hall in Santa Cruz, Tenerife?

    http://www.arcspace.com/architects/c...rife/index.htm

    I've seen it up close (unfortunately pre my digital camera) and I must say that I like it a lot, from a purely experiential standpoint (i.e. without intellectualizing why I like it). Awful setting (quite anti-urban) but a very nice sculpture of a building. Also, Santa Cruz has a lot of good vernacular architecture but hardly any single memorable building.
    Life and death of great pattern languages

  22. #22
         
    Registered
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    160
    While I don't think this concert hall is AMAZING or anything, I do like it better than Mr. Gheary's (I don't care if thats improper speling) disgrace in Chicago or Minnesota (the only ones i've seen up close). At least it doesn't look like you would shine lights on it to signal the mothership. And music is an art that oft demands achitecture on the edge to make it...pop

  23. #23
    Cyburbian iamme's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Milwaukee
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally posted by THX0097
    HI BUDDY.
    YOU ARE MISTAKEN CALATRAVA WAS TRAINED AS AN ARCHITECT AND AN ENGINEER. AS FOR MY DISCUSSION WITH JAWS....WHAT DO YOU CARE? IS THIS A DEMOCRATIC SPACE WHERE WE CAN COME AND DISCUSS AND DEEBATE IDEAS? ALSO IF AS A WAY OF TESTING MY OWN BELIEFS AND IDEALS I READ SOME POSTINGS BY SOMEONE WHO HAS TAKEN A STANCE THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN MINE AND THEN I NOTICE SOME INCONSITENCIES IN THEIR DEBATE AND I CHALLENGE THEM ON IT AND THEY EXPLAIN IT AND I REALIZE I MAY BE WRONG OR I SHOULD LEARN MORE ABOUT SOMETHING, OR THEY DO....ISN'T THAT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT...PUBLIC DEBATE ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE???? OR IS THIS ABOUT EVERYONE JUST AGREEING ON THE SAME THING AND REINFORCING OUR IGNORANCE??? OH BY THE WAY PARDON MY CAPITALS I'M USING ANOTHER PROGRAM AND IT REQUIRES CAPITALS...I'M NOT SHOUTING...ACTUALLY I'M QUIETLY TYPING AT WORK AND HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING IN THE PAST 5 MINUTES....
    This is not a democratic space to discuss ideas and this board is not meant to be a private conversation between two posters. If you don't like what I say, boo hoo.

    In the same breath you infer this is a public space and question my interest in this topic. Maybe it's you that is confused.

    Sorry, I just realized the poster was banned.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Luca's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,150
    Quote Originally posted by burnham follower
    While I don't think this concert hall is AMAZING or anything, I do like it better than Mr. Gheary's (I don't care if thats improper speling) disgrace in Chicago or Minnesota (the only ones i've seen up close). At least it doesn't look like you would shine lights on it to signal the mothership. And music is an art that oft demands achitecture on the edge to make it...pop
    Did you catch Gehry's one in L.A.? given that, there, there IS no context, you can't call it a-contextual and as a sculpture I thought it was beautiful. I hear as a conxert hall it's..'meh' (same with Sidney's super0famous opera-house, apparently).

    Give me the scala theater any day.
    Life and death of great pattern languages

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    12
    Actually the Disney Concert Hall is considered by most musicians and visitors to have superb acoutics, if thats what you were referring to.

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast