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Thread: With Al Z killed will things change?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
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    With Al Z killed will things change?

    Interesting to hear some Iraqi comments, being very positive to his death. I wonder long term if things will change. I think the country will have problems as long as outsiders continue to enter and as long as the two major faction continue to refuse to live along side each other peacefully and ignore their minor differences... Just my thoughts, hope I am wrong though, maybe a turning point...

    Wonder how big this safe house was, I guess they wanted to be sure and get him, dropping a few??? a few??? 500lb bombs?

  2. #2
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    It certianly was a blow to the insurgents, but the viod will soon be filled. It will make a difference but not a huge one. There are too many minor leaders of small factions running around.
    “As soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fall”
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  3. #3
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dicke Cheney
    "I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency." - Dick Cheney June 2005. (During a Larry King interview)
    Quote Originally posted by GWB
    "My fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended" - George W. Bush May 2003 (on the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln when 109 US casualties had occurred)
    (music up: 'God Bless America') Yes, I am in complete agreement with the Leaders of the Free World on this point, with Al-Z gone it's now the end of the War on Terror and we have finally emerged victorious. I expect the handful of remaining insurgents will be thoroughly discouraged and pack up and call it quits now. The Iraqi provisional government will finish mopping up and our boys will be home in a few weeks time. (music fade out).
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    The war on terror wont be over until we rid ourselves of the dixie chix

  5. #5

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    Actually, I think the people happiest about this are going to be Maqtada al-Sadr and all Shiites in Iraq, and even the Iranian government. We took out their biggest opponent, and the Sunni insurgency will reel for a little while. I expect some Shiite factions to raise some hell against U.S. troops over the next week or two.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian cch's avatar
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    Are you serious Maister?

    Michael Berg (beheaded Nick Berg's dad) was talking on CNN this morning and I was stunned by how he feels. He feels sad for Al-Zarqawi's family, cause they are mourning the way his family mourned with Nick was murdered. He feels insurgents are really just good people driven to the edge by the american occupation, watching their families be killed, their homes invaded, etc. He feels that Bush needs to realize that for every Iraqi we kill, there are 10 more bent on getting vengance. I agree with a lot of what he said, but come on... if someone killed my child in such a way I would want nothing but for them to be killed in a more brutal way. Al-Zarqawi was pure evil.

    I am worried about the retaliation this will spawn, though. I don't think it will even come close to bringing an end to this so-called war. The killing of terrorists just spawns more terrorism. It is never ending, and that is why it is ludicris to even start a "war on terror". I liked when Michael Berg was saying that there was no Al-Qiada before Bush became king of Iraq, there were 30,000 civilians killed a year before Bush and now there are 50,000, he went on and on about all the ways Iraqis are worse off now.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by cch
    Are you serious Maister?

    Michael Berg (beheaded Nick Berg's dad) was talking on CNN this morning and I was stunned by how he feels. He feels sad for Al-Zarqawi's family, cause they are mourning the way his family mourned with Nick was murdered. He feels insurgents are really just good people driven to the edge by the american occupation, watching their families be killed, their homes invaded, etc. He feels that Bush needs to realize that for every Iraqi we kill, there are 10 more bent on getting vengance. I agree with a lot of what he said, but come on... if someone killed my child in such a way I would want nothing but for them to be killed in a more brutal way. Al-Zarqawi was pure evil.
    .

    I was just reading the interview with him.....feel sorry for his loss, but he is a straight up kook, and needs to have his head examined.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Yeah, it may make a difference for a while, but I think it'll breed more insurgency. But at least some of the pressure is off for the real "hunt" for Bin Laden. Who of course will not be found, it seems that the current "regime" in Washington needs Bin Laden to exist to further their hold on the ignorant of America (General Populous) to support a continuation of the Petrol-Imperialist policy we have been shoving down the throats of oil rich nations for decades.

    I shouldn't say that I know how to speak Spanish. Odds are I'd be on the next C-130 to Caracas for the next "Oil Jaunt".
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  9. #9
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by cch
    Are you serious Maister?
    No. I was acting facetiously (something I've been known to do from time to time). Correct procedure when being sarcastic is to use a wink icon
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Plan-it's avatar
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    Terrorism and Al-Queda in Iraq to be more specific is like the a multi-headed monster. You can take out one head but others are still there to control the beast. They may be less effective for the time being as they adjust, but another person(s) will take the reigns.

    What I hope to see from this is more of a symbolic victory that can help reunite the people of Iraq and lessen tension between the Sunnis and Shiites. It is hard to tell what will occur.
    Satellite City Enabler

  11. #11
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    I think it is probably a huge morale booster for the troops. Which is definately a good thing

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    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    I don't think that Al-Zarqawi's death will halt anything in the immediate sense, but it might curb the long term actions of the insurgency. When large scale oppression of a large number of people occur on a long term basis it breeds contempt and loathing for the opposing faction. Although we would like to be idealist and tell the oppressed turn the other cheek, that isn't going to happen and we should not expect it to. With a tanking economy, crumbling infrastructure, shortage of health care and other basic human necessities comes contempt and despair which in my opinion is the driving force behind much of the insurgency.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  13. #13
    Cyburbian
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    Well Michael Berg is way out there IMO, dropped off the deep end I think. Though he does time to time hit on some relevant points. Not saying I don't feel for his loss, but it was by choice he was in Iraq. However, the blame is in the hands of the people who did the act, not the president regardless how you feel.

    LOL, I think its funny when people say we can't attack terrorism or it will get worse!?!?! I totally disagree, the more terrorists dead the better. But the situation is complicated. Attacking the terrorist is a double edged sword, so it must be done with precisely and with no let down. The second side is a policy one, the U.S. or as a nation needs to play the world political game better in an attempt to root out these areas of extreme Islamic teachings. Not through force but through education and support. Majority of existing extremist will not work with non-islamics, they have enough problems working with their own people!

    I think its a great hit, long-term it isn't a solution but it is a baby step towards a goal maybe. The only people who can secure peace is those who live there, and all we can do is offer assistance at this point. I am a big supporter of our troops in Iraq, but not of the invasion of Iraq. I think there were and are more pressing areas.

  14. #14
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Vlaude
    LOL, I think its funny when people say we can't attack terrorism or it will get worse!?!?! I totally disagree, the more terrorists dead the better.
    If killing folks in response to acts of violence they commited was the Answer then we'd have seen peace break out in Israel 60 years ago, or heck, the whole middle east about 5,000 years ago.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner
    I think it is probably a huge morale booster for the troops. Which is definately a good thing
    Yes, a huge morale booster for our troops. But does anyone else see this as an opening (however small) for the Shiite factions to exert their control over Iraq?

    I'm not trying to look at this as a bad thing, just trying to anticipate what's realistic.

  16. #16
    I'm not trying to look at this as a bad thing, just trying to anticipate what's realistic.
    Yes, a useful situation especially if Iraqi intel found him. The creation of a new Iraqi state will require much more violence and death. If it's to succeed, the Iraqi gov will have to publicly demosnstrate a violent and controlling capability.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Vlaude
    LOL, I think its funny when people say we can't attack terrorism or it will get worse!?!?!
    "You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace."
    Reality does not conform to your ideology.
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  18. #18
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Too bad these cute little catch phrases to force these guys to be nice to us.

    If nothing else, oil is below $70 on the news.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian
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    JordanB, I'm not saying you should bomb them into peace. That said, you can bomb (force) a landscape into peace. I would argue with you that is the easy solution. It happened in Japan and it has happened many times in history, but its not the solution wanted by anyone involved. But if you could hand pick the terrorists out of the mix that would solve the problem, or 98% of it. That is not a realistic scenerio though. Its not like we are fighting a colonial battle where everyone stands up and shoots face to face, things were much more simple back then ... Like I said though I'm not in favor of the war specifially in Iraq, but leaving terrorist to run free is not the answer. Regardless of what we as a society do it will be the wrong answer for them. Its these very small minority that ruin it for the masses.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jordanb
    "You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace."

    Franti rocks!

  21. #21
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I think that one of two things will happen, and it will depend on the Generals on the ground.

    Future A. The death of the top insurgency leader in Iraq, along will the 17 raids and “treasure-trove” of information obtained, this will be the turning point in the war on the insurgency. The troops will begin to weaken the combatants and will win this and be home by Christmas. However this will require that the troops that are there, stay there, and possibly a few more go over. It would be best to use a blitzkrieg method and go in full force town by town and keep troops in the cleared towns to make sure that they don’t come back. Additionally further Iraqi training is needed.

    Future B. The death of the top insurgency leader in Iraq, along with the 17 raids and the “Treasure-trove” of information obtained will give the Generals false hope, that they will start pulling troops out too soon. The insurgency, outraged by the pubic photos of their fallen leader will risk everything to kill the infidels and sweep though the country killing and terrorizing everyone from troops to civilians.
    If you're not growing, you're dying. - Lou Holtz

  22. #22
    I think that one of two things will happen, and it will depend on the Generals on the ground.


    As opposed to ... the Generals in the air.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Word on the street is this f***er was alive when we got there

    HEHE...

  24. #24
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planificador Urbano
    I think that one of two things will happen, and it will depend on the Generals on the ground.


    As opposed to ... the Generals in the air.
    Yep, or the ones in DC.
    Quote Originally posted by Jeff
    Word on the street is this f***er was alive when we got there

    HEHE...
    Let’s, see a guy who you think is dead and looks dead starts talking and tries to get off the stretcher, I wonder if someone freaked out and shot him.
    If you're not growing, you're dying. - Lou Holtz

  25. #25
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    I hope they sawed his head off.....really slow.

    Nick Bergs dad may not want revenge, but I do.

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