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Thread: Reverse gender or racial discrimination in the workplace and life?

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Reverse gender or racial discrimination in the workplace and life?

    Do people sometimes attempt to overcompensate for pervious discrimination concerns? We hear cases where the wealthy white male with exceptional qualifications will not be accepted to medical school while a lesser qualified person of minority, low economic, or female status will get accepted, or two equally qualified people will apply for a job, the interview spurs the same results for both, yet a discriminatory category will have an influence in the hiring decision.

    Additionally, do you treat coworkers, employees, or supervisors of different ethnicity, race, gender, religion, or socioeconomic status differently than others, being better or worse?

    I just hear cases where a female supervisor will treat a female subordinate slightly better than the male subordinates almost as if they are trying to compensate for their male superiors treating them differently.
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    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    I just hear cases where a female supervisor will treat a female subordinate slightly better than the male subordinates almost as if they are trying to compensate for their male superiors treating them differently.
    Hey Stan, you better not be talking about Ms. Cash.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    Hey Stan, you better not be talking about Ms. Cash.
    I can not believe that you would even suggest that anyone could feel that way about Ms. Cash. After all she is so cooperative and such a team player that she would never cause problems such as with redistricting... three years in a row.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

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    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Are you guys posting from the same computer?





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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    I wouldn't call it reverse discrimination. It's discrimination, plain and simple, no matter what the color, gender, or other trait of the discriminating or discriminated party is.

    Anyhow, I do find that I act extra nice to black service workers - cashiers, waitresses, and so on -- because subconsciously I think "I don't want to give them another reason to hate white people." When it comes to hiring, I don't care about race or gender.

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    Cyburbian Plan-it's avatar
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    This can be a sticky topic. Living in an area of the country I do, I see this sort of thing all the time. It happens in consultant selection, personnel decision, and policy enforcement. I just consider it a normal part of doing business in these neck of the woods.
    Satellite City Enabler

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    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
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    I'd like to think that planners are beyond this sort of thing - reverse or direct discrimination

    I will say that I am a female boss with an all-female office and I do think that offices should be gender mixed - too much of anything is a bad thing, imho - but if I said that as a future hiring practice, it would be discriminatory

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    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
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    I'd like to say that I treat everyone essentially the same, but that wouldn't be quite true.
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

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    I think I do treat people the same. I really don't care what color someone is or what sex or race they are. I am sure I have overcompensated at some point though, just can't recall.

    I have been discriminated against for being a woman, passed over on a job two times due to one person ont wanting a woman in that position. It drives me crazy but cannot prove it. I think being subject to that type of treatment you are more aware of how you act towards others. I really don't think I discriminate in my personal life nor in my professional life.

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    Cyburbian natski's avatar
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    I dont know if this counts as discrimination, but i have been in a postion where i know i have been hired because i am a female, with blonde hair and blue eyes etc etc. It doesnt make you feel real good about yourself knowing why you really got the job.

    On the other hand, i applied for a part time job at a real estate office when i was in high school i though i had a pretty good chance of getting the job, but got i told i didnt get the job cause i would distract the male staff- im like hello i am only 16- mind you it was the owners wife that was hiring! Funny enough i got a call two weeks later begging me to work for them, cause the other girl they had hired didnt have a clue- i politely declined.
    "Have you ever wondered if there was more to life, other than being really, really, ridiculously good looking?" Zoolander

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    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    I'm an equal opportunity jackass.

    I bet I've overcompensated for being a WASP heterosexual male at some point in my life, but I certainly don't make a habit of it. Based on what I've seen in many planning offices, discrimination within the department is usually not an issue--though a customer may bust out with something from time-to-time.

    I do tend to be extra nice to people in certain professions because I have personal experience, such as food service workers. I managed a restaurant and understand the types of dumbasses they have to put up with (and also what waitstaff should be expected to do). I have a reputation as a very good tipper and an easy-going customer.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

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    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    I just hear cases where a female supervisor will treat a female subordinate slightly better than the male subordinates almost as if they are trying to compensate for their male superiors treating them differently.
    Most studies actually show that female bosses tend to treat their female employees more harshly. They are overcompensating by trying to NOT show favoritism.

    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    or two equally qualified people will apply for a job, the interview spurs the same results for both, yet a discriminatory category will have an influence in the hiring decision.
    This makes no sense and contradicts your first argument. If both candidates are equally qualified, why does hiring a female/minority become "discrimination"?? How about the white male is a jerk but the Asian woman has a great personality fit? With all qualifications equal, any rational boss will try to hire the best fit, or promote internally, or whatever works for him/her. It does not necessarily mean oh, you're a white guy, you lose.

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    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess
    It does not necessarily mean oh, you're a white guy, you lose.
    Yeah, well, white guys are always supposed to win, you know? Otherwise, obviously, there is a case of "reverse discrimination" going on to take away their just deserts.

    I think it is the subtle assumptions that we don't hear or see ourselves making which are the hardest form of discrimination to combat. I became very painfully aware of this many years ago when I went to dinner with my husband and kids and my husband's good friend from work, Charlie, and his wife and kids. My husband had never mentioned that Charlie and his family were black. It wasn't relevent in my husband's mind. I was visibly surprised to discover they were not white. Having grown up in the Deep South, this was something "one should mention". My visible surprise must have been taken in a very bad way as dinner did not go well. Conversation was stilted, to say the least. It made me think a lot about the subtle ways in which discrimination rears its ugly head and the unspoken and unnoticed assumptions which can be far more intractable than the more "obvious" examples. It didn't bother me that they were black. What bothered me was the realization that I assumed this was something my husband "should" have (or would have) mentioned and how that implied that it "mattered" what color their skin was. My husband honestly doesn't care about things like that and it was one of the good things about being married to him. Early in the marriage, my dad was telling him some racist joke and my husband told him "I don't appreciate such humor. Please don't bother." After that, I never had to listen to such garbage anymore either.

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    Cyburbian Big Owl's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    two equally qualified people will apply for a job, the interview spurs the same results for both, yet a discriminatory category will have an influence in the hiring decision.
    Yea it happens all the time... and the discriminatory category is always a factor




    the category is personallaity... go figure.

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess
    This makes no sense and contradicts your first argument. If both candidates are equally qualified, why does hiring a female/minority become "discrimination"?? How about the white male is a jerk but the Asian woman has a great personality fit? With all qualifications equal, any rational boss will try to hire the best fit, or promote internally, or whatever works for him/her. It does not necessarily mean oh, you're a white guy, you lose.
    Well the “Oh you’re a white guy you loose”, has been taken into consideration before. With affirmative action race has unfairly weighted a minority applicant. If it was personality that would be one thing, but sometimes it’s not. I think that it is even more so as some employers will make an effort to provide for a better diversity in their work staff. A comment like that shows that a race, gender, or other potentially discriminatory category automatically sets up potential discrimination, regardless of qualifications.
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          Downtown's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan
    Anyhow, I do find that I act extra nice to black service workers - cashiers, waitresses, and so on -- because subconsciously I think "I don't want to give them another reason to hate white people." When it comes to hiring, I don't care about race or gender.
    I am *especially* nice and friendly to middle eastern women at the park, the corner store, where-ever - I always feel so horrible about how awful people are to them, just because their head is covered.

    But when it comes to work, people are people and they are all deserving of respect, whether they're customers or co-workers.

    When it comes to hiring there was a really interesting editorial in maybe Time a little while ago about how many companies are now hiring people who maybe don't have all the technical skills the company needs, but will "fit in" with the office culture, and how that puts women at a disadvantage sometimes, because they don't always talk sports, or microbrew or whatever.

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    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    From my wife's personal experience in two recent jobs, her female bosses have been complete beyotches and my wife prefers to work with men now...when she can. It's funny. She's a very feminine woman (not girly, though), but in a work environment, she is more "male-like" - ie. do the work and don't get so emotional.

    So, in the future she will probably 'discriminate' against female bosses.

    Quote Originally posted by Downtown
    ...how that puts women at a disadvantage sometimes, because they don't always talk sports, or microbrew or whatever.
    Or how that would put a man at a disadvantage sometimes because they don't always talk lipstick, handbags, or whatever.

    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

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    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman
    She's a very feminine woman (not girly, though)
    This one just screams for some further explanation - a woman who is 'feminine' but not 'girly'
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    This one just screams for some further explanation - a woman who is 'feminine' but not 'girly'
    Wears skirts and tastefully shows her figure, but doesn't gush over the right lipstick and/or shoes, etc.

    Is that clearer?
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  20. #20
          Downtown's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman
    From my wife's personal experience in two recent jobs, her female bosses have been complete beyotches and my wife prefers to work with men now...when she can. It's funny. She's a very feminine woman (not girly, though), but in a work environment, she is more "male-like" - ie. do the work and don't get so emotional.
    I totally get this. The stories that my GFs have about working in elementary schools or hospitals or other places with a lot of women turn my hair gray. Our water department has a large female clerk staff that has actually had the town psychologist come in to mediate a dispute that escalated from someone not saying "good morning" to someone else.

  21. #21
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Downtown
    ...escalated from someone not saying "good morning" to someone else.
    That is way too similar to the current situation my wife has now.
    Last edited by mendelman; 03 Aug 2006 at 12:19 PM.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    . With affirmative action race has unfairly weighted a minority applicant. .
    In most instances I would argue that life in America is unfairly weighted against a minority applicant.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner
    In most instances I would argue that life in America is unfairly weighted against a minority applicant.
    In most cases I fully agree... but does it make the opposite acceptable? I think that ALL people, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, economic status, or religion should be treated the same.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    In most cases I fully agree... but does it make the opposite acceptable? I think that ALL people, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, economic status, or religion should be treated the same.
    I don't know. Does the end justify the means?

    As a white male I don't feel that I have ever sufferred any reverse discrimination or been significantly harmed by affirmative action. And I certainly have felt sometimes that I have benefitted from being a white male in this country.

  25. #25
    Cyburbian Big Owl's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    In most cases I fully agree... but does it make the opposite acceptable? I think that ALL people, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, economic status, or religion should be treated the same.
    When i read this i thought of the "blind taste test" that they always did with pepsi and coke. If only everyone would wear a big brown box and had a voice modulation that sounded like everyone else.

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