Urban planning community | #theplannerlife

Poll results: What would be the one value you would not sacrifice in any situation

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • Your self

    3 7.50%
  • Your family

    29 72.50%
  • Your personal 'cause'

    2 5.00%
  • Your country

    0 0%
  • Your religion

    3 7.50%
  • Your fraternity/order/association/etc.

    0 0%
  • Other (explain in great detail below)

    3 7.50%
+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: Ethical Priorities

  1. #1
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    21,241

    Ethical Priorities

    On occasion we face situations that are rather nebulous where it feels like our ethical obligations conflict - what to do in those types of situations? One course of action is required but something has got to give and we must make a choice and decide what our ultimate priorities in life are. In other words, what do we value most.

    In a life or death situation, what would be the one priority you would never sacrifice if it meant the loss of all else? Please take the poll
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  2. #2
    Cyburbian SW MI Planner's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,188
    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    In a life or death situation, what would be the one priority you would never sacrifice if it meant the loss of all else? Please take the poll
    There is no poll?

  3. #3
    Maister, man -- it's Friday and this is a deep topic. Could you wait till a Tuesday to pose a topic that requires so much introspection? Now I'm going to be wondering all weekend about my response.

    In a life-and-death situation, if it's between me or my kids, well, it's a no-brainer to me. "Hail Mary, full of grace..."

  4. #4
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    21,241
    Quote Originally posted by Gedunker
    Maister, man -- it's Friday and this is a deep topic. Could you wait till a Tuesday to pose a topic that requires so much introspection? Now I'm going to be wondering all weekend about my response.

    In a life-and-death situation, if it's between me or my kids, well, it's a no-brainer to me. "Hail Mary, full of grace..."
    Yeah, well, I've been starting 'fluff' threads all week just to try to lighten the mood around here. It's about time y'all expended a little thought!

    Look at it this way, what better way to make you more fully appreciate your weekend than taking this delightfully enlightening poll? Suddenly having to spend the weekend scraping paint on your house doesn't seem so bad, huh?
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  5. #5
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    6,421
    This is really a no-brainer to me. My family doesn't come close to anything else in the poll.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  6. #6
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    21,241
    Quote Originally posted by btrage
    This is really a no-brainer to me. My family doesn't come close to anything else in the poll.
    Maybe we're getting let off too easily. Now I wish I'd broken the poll down further and had separate choices for: spouse, parents, children.....

    If one chooses family over, say, country I guess it stands to reason that they would be unwilling to sacrifice a son or a daughter in a war?
    Last edited by Maister; 04 Aug 2006 at 10:16 AM.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  7. #7
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Here, but where are you?
    Posts
    16,361
    Funny that you did not list your employer as an option when we do that every morning when we separate from our loves ones and it’s off to work we go! Additionally, I think almost all of us do things at work that we would not otherwise “because it’s our job”.
    There is no such thing as failure, only learning experiences. However, it is our choice to learn the lesson and change or not.

  8. #8
          Downtown's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Under a pile of back issue Plannings
    Posts
    3,174
    voted family - but its the kids, hands down. now please, lets not play Sophie's Choice.

    I think I'm a pretty laid back mom, but I totally have paralyzing moments of fear of anything happening to one of my kids. When I was running the other morning in the park near my house, a fire engine went screaming by, and one of my first thoughts was: Oh my god - what if that's my house? How will DH get all the kids out?

    And I used to be comfortable with the thought of dying - just a feeling like "Ok, I've lived a good life, death doesn't scare me."

    But once I had children, everything changed - for example I probably won't skydive now until my kids are out of the house.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    6,421
    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    If one chooses family over, say, country I guess it stands to reason that they would be unwilling to sacrifice a son or a daughter in a war?
    Would I personally sacrifice a child for a war? No. But if my 18 year old child decides to enlist in the military, I'm not going to shackle him to his bed.

    Along your same line of reasoning Maister, what about a child who commits a crime? Would the parents here shield that child from the law? Does it depend on the crime committed?
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  10. #10
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
    Registered
    May 2004
    Location
    Snarkville
    Posts
    6,594
    Its really easy to sit here and type on the internet that you would sacrifice family over yourself but I'm willing to bet it would be less easy if you were actually faced with that situation. Not to say that that would change anything.

    For me having no kids. I don't know the answer. It sure as heck isnt country or religion though

  11. #11
          Downtown's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Under a pile of back issue Plannings
    Posts
    3,174
    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner
    Its really easy to sit here and type on the internet that you would sacrifice family over yourself but I'm willing to bet it would be less easy if you were actually faced with that situation. Not to say that that would change anything.

    For me having no kids. I don't know the answer. It sure as heck isnt country or religion though

    my mom once told me that you never will know the depth of your parents' love for you until you have children of your own. and for me, that was absolutely true.

  12. #12
         
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    3,519
    Of course it would be my kids. I am not sure there is any other answer....

  13. #13
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    21,241
    A biotech company has developed technology allowing them to remove a vital organ from newborns no older than 4 weeks and implant it into an adult so that it will grow into a new organ and there will be virtually no chance of organ rejection. Poor parents in China are lining up to 'sell' their female babies to this biotech company for this procedure. Your 59 year old grandfather is experiencing this vital organ failure and will die within a few weeks if he cannot receive this transplant. If he receives the transplant his prognosis is very favorable for full recovery. However, he is currently unconcious and hooked up to life support, you have power of attorney to make medical decisions on his behalf. Do you order the procedure to save his life and thereby condone the sale of infant organs? Given this particular life and death scenario would anyone care to change their 'family is ultimate priority' vote?

    Quote Originally posted by btrage
    Along your same line of reasoning Maister, what about a child who commits a crime? Would the parents here shield that child from the law? Does it depend on the crime committed?
    An interesting ethical question. When I was writing the original post I deliberated whether or not I wanted to include non-life or death situations (such as protecting children from criminal prosecution) but I think the only way we can truly recognize our Ultimate Value is by confronting life or death decisions - so I'd like to limit discussion to those sorts of scenarios. Now if you could come up with a life or death scenario involving shielding a child from the law.....
    Last edited by Maister; 04 Aug 2006 at 12:41 PM.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  14. #14
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Santiago, Chile
    Posts
    4,767
    Hmm... tough question.... But as I say, the only one I trust to save me... is myself... and if I'm looking for a hand to help me out, I'll find it at the end of my arm.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    6,421
    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    A biotech company has developed technology allowing them to remove a vital organ from newborns no older than 4 weeks and implant it into an adult so that it will grow into a new organ and there will be virtually no chance of organ rejection. Poor parents in China are lining up to 'sell' their female babies to this biotech company for this procedure. Your 56 year old grandfather is experiencing this vital organ failure and will die within a few weeks if he cannot receive this transplant. If he receives the transplant his prognosis is very favorable for full recovery. However, he is currently unconcious and hooked up to life support, you have power of attorney to make medical decisions on his behalf. Do you order the procedure to save his life and thereby condone the sale of infant organs? Given this particular life and death scenario would anyone care to change their 'family is ultimate priority' vote?
    OK Devils Advocate...

    If my grandfather was unconscious and I did not know how he felt about the situation, I would let him die.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  16. #16
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    21,241
    Quote Originally posted by btrage
    OK Devils Advocate...

    If my grandfather was unconscious and I did not know how he felt about the situation, I would let him die.
    This is the wonderful thing about ethics tests. Objectively, there are no 'right' or 'wrong' answers. One considers the question and answers to their own satisfaction.

    Of course now everyone can say "Boy, isn't that btrage an unethical bastard?! He'd let his very own grandfather die! How heartless!"

    Given the same scenario I'd let my grandfather die too FWIW.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  17. #17
          Downtown's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Under a pile of back issue Plannings
    Posts
    3,174
    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    Do you order the procedure to save his life and thereby condone the sale of infant organs? Given this particular life and death scenario would anyone care to change their 'family is ultimate priority' vote?
    i don't think there can be a one size fits all answer for this. I would not sacrifice a 4 week old baby for my grandfather. Would I sacrifice myself for one of my kids? yes. would i sacrifice a 4 week old healthy baby for my 4 week old sick baby? now - that's a really really hard one.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    New Town
    Posts
    3,968
    Quote Originally posted by Maister
    A biotech company has developed technology allowing them to remove a vital organ from newborns no older than 4 weeks and implant it into an adult so that it will grow into a new organ and there will be virtually no chance of organ rejection. Poor parents in China are lining up to 'sell' their female babies to this biotech company for this procedure. Your 59 year old grandfather is experiencing this vital organ failure and will die within a few weeks if he cannot receive this transplant. If he receives the transplant his prognosis is very favorable for full recovery. However, he is currently unconcious and hooked up to life support, you have power of attorney to make medical decisions on his behalf. Do you order the procedure to save his life and thereby condone the sale of infant organs? Given this particular life and death scenario would anyone care to change their 'family is ultimate priority' vote?
    I'm thinking that if I had a 56 year old grandfather, I probably wouldn't be old enough to make such a decision, but...

    I guess when you mentioned family, I automatically thought of my kids and not my parents/grandparents. I would say I am more concerned with the younger generation than the older. In the scenario above, I feel "fixing" the problem constitutes extraordinary measures that make me question whether it isn't just this person's time to go. I'm not convinced that keeping one alive at all costs is necessaily a good thing.

    I think overall, Americans, and perhaps other "developed" nations, are very removed from death, especially that of children. In much of the world, children die much more frequently and people see it more as a fact of life. I had an anthropology professor who liked to ask a certain questioon of local informants to get at these kind of ethical issues. It goes something like this:

    A mother is on a boat with a child. The boat is sinking. If one person is tossed overboard, the boat will be light enough not to sink, but the person will drown. Who should be sacrificed - the child or the mother?

    I know the story has holes (a person could jump in the water and hang onthe side of the boat, but bear with me). Most Americans say they would sacrifice the mother because the life of a child is so sacred. In other contexts, particularly in parts of ther world with high mortality rates, people say they would sacrifice the child. The reasoning is that without the mother, the child will likely die anyway. Also, a mother can make more children. Plus, the child also has a chance of dying from another disease/condition later.

    Interesting stuff...
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    I can't vote on any kind of "ultimate priority". I think it is always a judgment call. I also think absolutist thinking is tyrannical and fosters much evil. Nationalism has been blamed for causing WWII (and perhaps also WWI). The Mafia is infamous for citing loyalty to "The Family" as justification for much evil. I think anything can be twisted into justifying horrible acts and I am always leery of the slippery slope.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian Coragus's avatar
    Registered
    May 2002
    Location
    On the edge of the abyss
    Posts
    1,204
    I wanted to go with my family, but I went with myself. I firmly believe that I can't best serve the interests of my family (or work or other organizations for that matter) if I don't take care of myself first. If I was willing to compromise my own values, then how could I stand as a bastion of hope for my family?
    What do you mean I can't plan? My SimCity has 200,000 people with a 99% happiness rating!

  21. #21
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    21,241
    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone
    I can't vote on any kind of "ultimate priority".
    You dig Sartre?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  22. #22
    You dig Sartre?
    I don't know about MZ, but I'm more of a Camus man, myself.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Joe Iliff's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 1997
    Location
    Clowns to the left, jokers to the right
    Posts
    1,438
    This list isn't complete . . . Where's "your money"?
    JOE ILIFF
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Debt is normal . . . Be weird!
    Dave Ramsey

    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard, solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think."
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Working in a Vulnerable Location
    Posts
    17,423
    Quote Originally posted by Joe Iliff
    This list isn't complete . . . Where's "your money"?
    And where's "your floaties" or "your wine collection"?
    Annoyingly insensitive

  25. #25
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
    Registered
    Sep 1999
    Location
    400 miles from Orlando
    Posts
    13,856
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake
    And where's "your floaties" or "your wine collection"?
    You didn't ask where's "your goddess"...

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

More at Cyburbia

  1. Ethical dilemma
    Career Development and Advice
    Replies: 9
    Last post: 20 Jan 2012, 9:25 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last post: 21 Dec 2004, 8:40 AM
  3. Replies: 11
    Last post: 12 May 2004, 12:08 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last post: 08 Mar 2004, 12:02 PM
  5. Ethical question
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 22
    Last post: 16 Aug 2002, 5:04 PM