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Thread: Bad initiatives: the proposition thread

  1. #1
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Bad initiatives: the proposition thread

    Anyone else out there facing a poorly drafted anti-everything government initiative this November? This year in Arizona its Proposition 207:

    http://www.azsos.gov/election/2006/I...sh/Prop207.htm

    Again with the out of state interests trying to piggy back on Kelo emotions to make a quick buck at the expense of the tax payers and decent land use principles....as if we ALL haven't gotten the message about not playing fast and loose with emient domain, for fear of one of these turds in white dresses getting passed.....

    Ok, like on the Iron Chef........The One screams the saying that the host yells at the start of the cook off....... BEGIN Discussion!!!
    “The way of acquiescence leads to moral and spiritual suicide. The way of violence leads to bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. But, the way of non-violence leads to redemption and the creation of the beloved community.”
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    - See more at: http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-ph....r7W02j3S.dpuf

  2. #2
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Sooooo.... we're advocating the taking of land in order to serve the interests of Big Development?

    Not sure what the problem is here, T.O.

    Perhaps I didn't see the fine print
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

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    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Well....

    If all Prop 207 did was to narrowly remove a specific problem with the use of eminent domain....no problem....but enough with the tack on crap and re-payment schemes and apparent vast expansion of regulatory takings
    “The way of acquiescence leads to moral and spiritual suicide. The way of violence leads to bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. But, the way of non-violence leads to redemption and the creation of the beloved community.”
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    - See more at: http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-ph....r7W02j3S.dpuf

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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    "I see," said the Blind Man....
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  5. #5
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    A similar initiative is proposed in Montana. However, due to suspected improprieties by signature gatherers, falsified signatures, and deception on the part of the out-of-state paid signature gatherers, a state court judge has thrown out the initiative along with two others. His decision is being appealed. The Montana Supreme Court has stated they will expedite the appeal.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

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    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    I-933 in Washington.

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    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
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    shiver me timbers

    TABOR in Maine because it's working so well in Colorado, right?

    http://www.memun.org/public/MMA/svc/...R/problems.htm

    http://www.taxpayerbillofrights.com/

    http://www.cbpp.org/3-16-06sfp.htm

    I'm basically screwed if this passes

  8. #8
    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    If all Prop 207 did was to narrowly remove a specific problem with the use of eminent domain....no problem....but enough with the tack on crap and re-payment schemes and apparent vast expansion of regulatory takings
    Like TO sez, it the takings junk that makes these bad propositions. NPR has been running a series about the propositions. Sounds like they are being funded by the property rights groups.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

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    Cyburbian Coragus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    TABOR in Maine because it's working so well in Colorado, right?
    Our November initiative that mirrored this in Michigan just got removed from the ballot. The State Board of Canvasers said that the petition SOS (Save our State) passed around was disengenuous. They appealed to the state Supreme Court, but they refused to hear the case.

    Head's up, they'll be back in a couple years.
    What do you mean I can't plan? My SimCity has 390,269 people with a 99% happiness rating (1/23/2017)!

  10. #10
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Yup....

    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    TABOR in Maine because it's working so well in Colorado, right?

    http://www.memun.org/public/MMA/svc/...R/problems.htm

    http://www.taxpayerbillofrights.com/

    http://www.cbpp.org/3-16-06sfp.htm

    I'm basically screwed if this passes
    They tried Tabor here in Arizona (again) this year, but it failed in the legislature....thank goodness, I think they spoke to someone in Colorado about how well it worked there after the boom times were over..... Not to mention all of the communities that de-bruced recently (last several years).
    “The way of acquiescence leads to moral and spiritual suicide. The way of violence leads to bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. But, the way of non-violence leads to redemption and the creation of the beloved community.”
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    - See more at: http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-ph....r7W02j3S.dpuf

  11. #11
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    TABOR in Maine because it's working so well in Colorado, right?

    http://www.memun.org/public/MMA/svc/...R/problems.htm

    http://www.taxpayerbillofrights.com/

    http://www.cbpp.org/3-16-06sfp.htm

    I'm basically screwed if this passes
    After a quick perusal of these links, I have to say the proponents of this law are a heck of a lot better at PR. The taxpayerbillofrights.com has simple, punchy text that is easy to digest right at the top of its page, while the other sites require one to read carefully and pay attention in order to understand the argument. As in many struggles, the political right masters the soundbite, and the moderate/left wallows in nuanced analysis.

    The oppostition to this proposal needs to re-think how it addresses ordinary voters.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian
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    Following up to what Otterpop said:

    Our three initiatives in Montana (the "pay-or-waive" anti-regulation initiative, the "state spending cap", and the "recall judges initiate) did get removed. They're being appealed, of course, and it won't be a done deal until after the court system gets through with it and the election is over.

    One good thing, in my opinion, is that the press here in Montana is really covering the fact that these are all funded by out-of-state folks (specifically, a millionaire in NY). In fact, our governor sent a well-publicized letter to the guy (along with a copy of the MT constitution), saying that he might want to read it over because we're doing just fine with this stuff...

    My hope is that even if it gets put back on the ballot, the press is so negative that it'll go down in flames.

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