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Thread: The Pudgy Faced Freak we call Kim Jong Il and his toys

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    The Pudgy Faced Freak we call Kim Jong Il and his toys

    So, yea, North Korea has nukes... and they are not afraid to test them. The UN wants to send them a note (probably on floral print scented paper) asking Kim Jong Mentally ILL to please not possess nuclear weapons.

    And then we have places like Iran looking to get their hands on nukes who see the lack of action being taken and think, heck if it’s only a slap on the hand, why not break the rules.

    What would you do to stop North Korea from further possession and use of Nuclear Weapons?

    Why do you think that it has gone on this long?

    Do you think that the UN will be successful for will he give them the mighty middle finger as he points his toys at the neighbors?
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  2. #2
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    If we outlaw nuclear weapons then only criminals will have nuclear weapons.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  3. #3
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    There's not much we can do. Only action that could have some finality would be military intervention and that should only happen if NK uses a nuclear weapon against someone.

    They are a sovereign nation, aren't they?
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    They are a sovereign nation, aren't they?
    Yes, but then again so is Angola.

    Sovereign is a broad term, given the "Great Leader" lets them die like lightning bugs in a sealed jar.
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  5. #5
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Mskis, I notice you didn't touch my NRA jab with a ten foot pole, but let's look at this semi-seriously - is this not the very logic applied by the gun proponents: A heavily armed society = a safe, peaceful and happy society? Following this logic doesn't it stand to reason that the more countries that have nukes the safer the world will be? You know, MAD (mutual assured destruction) keeps folks from wanting to pull that trigger and all?

    Gun proponents and others who subscribe to this sort of 'logic' should be doing cartwheels of joy that Kim Jong Il is bringing the world that much closer to World Peace!
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  6. #6
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    Mskis, I notice you didn't touch my NRA jab with a ten foot pole, but let's look at this semi-seriously - is this not the very logic applied by the gun proponents: A heavily armed society = a safe, peaceful and happy society? Following this logic doesn't it stand to reason that the more countries that have nukes the safer the world will be? You know, MAD (mutual assured destruction) keeps folks from wanting to pull that trigger and all?

    Gun proponents and others who subscribe to this sort of 'logic' should be doing cartwheels of joy that Kim Jong Il is bringing the world that much closer to World Peace!
    Next you will say that good fences build good neighbors... until one of them launches the head of a dead pig over the fence. Then the Islamic Fundamentalists go Ape $*%# and we are all screwed.

    I don’t have an answer to the question. I don’t thin that the UN is going to have any of an impact because even though China says that they will play nice and stay in line, they won’t, Jong Pudgy Face knows it.

    I think that it will take a serious step forward from up and coming places like India to step in and accidentally take out the “Great Leader” with the wrong cut of a Puffer blow fish.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  7. #7

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    Well, luckily M'Skis, you are a fit young buck in your twenties and you will be having lots and lots of kids. Now's the opportunity to more directly participate in the Great Crusade to Purge All Evil from the World.

    I hear the current exercise in "liberation" is "struggling" and they need some eager new assistance in the project. Heck, do the Republican thing and sign up from one of the privatized mercenary forces-they pay far more than a planners' salary, and the benefits of chocolates and roses that the grateful population will bestow upon you will double your salary!

    Maybe you can get in on the ground floor now in George and Dick's Next Great Adventures (Iran and North Korea) after you've proven yourself in Iraq???

  8. #8
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by BKM View post
    Well, luckily M'Skis, you are a fit young buck in your twenties and you will be having lots and lots of kids. Now's the opportunity to more directly participate in the Great Crusade to Purge All Evil from the World.

    I hear the current exercise in "liberation" is "struggling" and they need some eager new assistance in the project. Heck, do the Republican thing and sign up from one of the privatized mercenary forces-they pay far more than a planners' salary, and the benefits of chocolates and roses that the grateful population will bestow upon you will double your salary!

    Maybe you can get in on the ground floor now in George and Dick's Next Great Adventures (Iran and North Korea) after you've proven yourself in Iraq???
    So I take it that you don’t have issue with the recent Nuclear Weapon Tests that NK did?
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian cch's avatar
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    Has anybody else seen Team America: World Police? Man, that movies funny. It came out a few years ago, but those SouthPark guys knew that Kim Jong was the real threat.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by cch View post
    Has anybody else seen Team America: World Police? Man, that movies funny. It came out a few years ago, but those SouthPark guys knew that Kim Jong was the real threat.
    And there is the answer F*&@# YEA!

    That move was hilarious... but then again I find amusement knowing that Stan (Maister) has had no coffee and he is not even aware that his cup is gone
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  11. #11
    Although NK is a "sovereign" state, they are a rogue state as well. Their history of exporting sophisticated military hardware to the middle east is particularly troubling. It worries me also that the taepo dong missile (IIRC) isn't far from being able to reach the mainland US. With a nuclear warhead. If they can be this brazen, I don't doubt for a second that they would sell nuclear materials to terrorist NGOs.

    Bush is doing the right thing by pressing the UN as well as China and Russia to contain their ally. (Where was this restraint a few years ago? But, I digress.) Certainly one can understand the trepidation in SK and Japan as tensions rise.

    If they do this again (as it appears they are preparing to do), China should get out from behind it's wall and get their navy involved to interdict NK shipping. Somehow I doubt it will happen, however.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    So I take it that you don’t have issue with the recent Nuclear Weapon Tests that NK did?
    Of course I think it's a sad thing for the world. Is it actually a real threat to the United States? Not really. As I noted on an earlier thread, North Korea, while a wacky theocracy in many respects (See Counterpunch.org for a fascinating essay) is by no means an expansionist state-it's the original "Hermit Kingdom" and the North Korean elite will laugh off any "sactions" that the "world" community impses on them. (Sanctions that Chinese smugglers will violate at every opportunity, with or without their government's sanction) As bad as North Korea can be, there are far, far worse places in the world-many of which we have helped create through our policies (Congo, anyone?).

    So...the question I have for you is similar to one you always ask us skeptics: what are you going to do about it? Are you urging the Armageddonists in our own government to launch a nuclear attack on North Korea? Or, are you promoting, from the saefty of a computer keyboard, yet another major landwar that will make Iraq look like an amusing police action?

    If not, then what's the point of fulminating against the latest enemy the Republican Party has told you to worry about? MAD will work for North Korea like it did with the Soviet Union.

    Quote Originally posted by gedunker
    If they do this again (as it appears they are preparing to do), China should get out from behind it's wall and get their navy involved to interdict NK shipping. Somehow I doubt it will happen, however.
    Certainly a logical policy presecription. Stop their trade in weapons technology.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Did you know that North Korea has the worlds largest stock pile of Artillery. I was talking with a friend of mine who manned a palidan for the USArmy in Iraq and he said N. Korea has the most out of any country in the world. He said because all they have to do is protect their boarder so they have them lined up along the whole boarder pointed out.
    @GigCityPlanner

  14. #14
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    Did you know that North Korea has the worlds largest stock pile of Artillery. I was talking with a friend of mine who manned a palidan for the USArmy in Iraq and he said N. Korea has the most out of any country in the world. He said because all they have to do is protect their boarder so they have them lined up along the whole boarder pointed out.
    Yes, in fact North Korea's heavy artillery capability renders the nuclear question kinda moot. Right now they have enough pieces pointed at Seoul (the principal target in the country) to level it in a few hours - who needs nukes?
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    Yes, in fact North Korea's heavy artillery capability renders the nuclear question kinda moot. Right now they have enough pieces pointed at Seoul (the principal target in the country) to level it in a few hours - who needs nukes?
    We didn't care till now because there is no direct threat since a typical artillery shell can reach maybe 50 miles with a tail wind. A nuke howerver pointed at Los Angeles would be a direct threat to us in the homeland.
    @GigCityPlanner

  16. #16
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    A nuke howerver pointed at Los Angeles would be a direct threat to us in the homeland.
    Provided it's attached to a rocket that is powerful enough.

    I agree the best ( and real only) thing to do is monitor/inspect all shipments coming out of NK to make sure that they are not transporting any nuclear devices to terrorists orgs.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Ha ha ha.....

    Overt Hypocrisy.....is the standard operating procedure nowadays....in all things political and certainly relating to who might be a real threat to US interests (not just oil interests)

    Team America was a funny show but lacked the hypocrisy normally associated with South Park humor.....I mean think about it......shouldn't they have been fighting some third rate terrorist in Guinea Bissau to protect oil fields, instead of going against the actual real threat??? Puppets having sex is always funny
    Skilled Adoxographer

  18. #18
    Why the hell do you care what happens in a Godforsaken hellhole on the other side of the planet?

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jaws View post
    Why the hell do you care what happens in a Godforsaken hellhole on the other side of the planet?
    Because I want a place where your children and my children can live without the crap that has been going on during our life times.
    @GigCityPlanner

  20. #20
    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    Because I want a place where your children and my children can live without the crap that has been going on during our life times.
    So why the other side of the planet?

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jaws View post
    So why the other side of the planet?
    It's all our planet. We're all on it together and as far as I know we haven't invented space colonies yet.

    Where did the terrorists come from.... the other side of the earth.
    Where has every major was since 1900 been fought, other side of the earth.
    We live in a global economy, events that happen across the earth have an effect on everyone.
    @GigCityPlanner

  22. #22
    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    It's all our planet. We're all on it together and as far as I know we haven't invented space colonies yet.

    Where did the terrorists come from.... the other side of the earth.
    Where has every major was since 1900 been fought, other side of the earth.
    We live in a global economy, events that happen across the earth have an effect on everyone.
    North Korea is not in the global economy, nor part of an alliance that could start a major war, nor did it ever commit any act of terrorism on the US mainland. So I must still ask myself, why do you care?

    If all you want is a safe place for your kids, there are lots of safe places in this world. Switzwerland, Singapore, Costa Rica, are some among the many very safe places.

  23. #23
    maudit anglais
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    Moderator note:
    Please do not feed the troll (that means you jaws. Tide does not need to defend his concern to you or anyone else

  24. #24
    It was an open question and he answered it. If people are going to advocate attacking a third world nation then they certainly have to justify their concerns.

  25. #25
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Mskis, where is your outrage over India and Pakistan having the bomb? Like North Korea, neither signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty, have rogue programs that are not subject to the IAEA and have tested nuclear weapons against the will of the UN.
    With India and Pakistan we have rewarded both of these countries greatly with military technology and non military business. Pakistan has an unstable government, a strong Islamic militant presence, and it is widely speculated that AQ Kahn sold much of the nuclear technology to North Korea and Iran. With India Bush lifted many of the trade sanctions placed on India for its nuclear program and sold it some F-16's and other highly sophisticated technology.

    So why shouldn't North Korea have a bomb? We let two other countries develop the technology, rewarded them for their non compliance, and in the past few years we have kept lowering the bar for North Korea to comply yet we refused to engage them in dialogue.

    First the US said you better stop enriching uranium. Then you better not build a bomb. Then it was you better not test the bomb. Now the US is saying you better not sell it.

    We have no consistency in our policy, we are not engaging them in dialogue to defuse the situation and we have few options. Now we are threatening sanctions to one of the most isolated countries in the world.
    It seems the axis of evil speech and the Iraqi invasion made the other members more willing to obtain nuclear weapons to deter US aggression.

    The US has few options but isolation and sactions did not keep North Korea from developing a bomb nor will it stop them from refining it or building more. The only option is to re-engage our diplomatic efforts to find a solution.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

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