Urban planning community | #theplannerlife

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: IVF and egg donors

  1. #1
    Cyburbian dandy_warhol's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2005
    Location
    meh.
    Posts
    8,702

    IVF and egg donors

    A representative from the American Society of Reproductive Medicine estimates that spending on donor eggs is now about $38 million a year. ASRM in Birmingham, Ala., says about 10,000 babies a year are born from donated eggs.

    Donors typically are 18 to early-30s, when women are most fertile and eggs are healthiest. ASRM recommends that egg donors receive between $5,000 and $10,000 for the donation of eggs.

    What are your thoughts on women selling their eggs?
    Is it unjust that women receive more money for their eggs than men get for their sperm?
    Is it morally corrupt for women to sell their eggs?
    Are people who support IVF treatments contributing to the problem of over population?

    Other thoughts on the subject.
    In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. -Martin Luther King Jr.

  2. #2
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2003
    Location
    at the neighboring pub
    Posts
    6,158
    I have to say this so I get it out of the way... I don't understand the kind of money people throw down for IVF treatments that may/may not work when they could go adopt for a similar cost (although adoption has its risks too). Maybe I don't understand because I'm a guy, but it just doesn't click with me. I'm not saying that it's bad; I just don't get it. Kids need homes.

    As for donating eggs, I say go for it. It's your body. My understanding is that retrieving eggs is more difficult and risky than sperm, and that eggs are a more limited quantity. (my very limited understanding of anatomy & physiology is that women have a finite amount of eggs, while men continually produce sperm). My guess is that this is a chief contributor to the much higher price of eggs. Also, I believe men tend to be more likely to donate than women, so a big part of it is supply vs. demand.

    I do think that folks getting IVF treatments do contribute to the growing population, but not significantly. I believe they would be better served to adopt and give a kid without a loving home a happier life. However, I do not consider IVF treatments immoral or anything like that.
    Last edited by Suburb Repairman; 09 Nov 2006 at 1:17 PM.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  3. #3
         
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    3,519
    $5-10k???? Hmmm, I may need to leave the office for a bit!!
    Just kidding. I am not too sure how I feel about it. I mean if it could help someone that wants a child that badly have one then great, BUT I think there are plenty of children that need homes, and if someone wants a child that badly I think there are other options.
    I am afraid if I donated eggs I would wonder forever if a child of mine was out there somewhere.

  4. #4
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    22,343
    Quote Originally posted by dandy_warhol View post
    A representative from the American Society of Reproductive Medicine estimates that spending on donor eggs is now about $38 million a year. ASRM in Birmingham, Ala., says about 10,000 babies a year are born from donated eggs.

    Donors typically are 18 to early-30s, when women are most fertile and eggs are healthiest. ASRM recommends that egg donors receive between $5,000 and $10,000 for the donation of eggs.

    What are your thoughts on women selling their eggs?
    Is it unjust that women receive more money for their eggs than men get for their sperm?
    Is it morally corrupt for women to sell their eggs?
    Are people who support IVF treatments contributing to the problem of over population?

    Other thoughts on the subject.
    People donating eggs for IVF treatments contribute to world overpopulation in the same way that folks burning candles contribute to global warming - they ain't the real culprits. It's the impoverished families that live in Third World countries that have 6 children and yet get them innoculated and thereby survive the diseases that otherwise would have killed most off in infancy that are causing astronomical birthrates globally.

    I see nothing 'immoral' about a woman selling one or more cells from her body.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  5. #5
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Antarctica
    Posts
    1,003
    According to wikipedia:
    The eggs are retrieved from the patient using a transvaginal technique involving an ultrasound-guided needle piercing the vaginal wall to reach the ovaries. Through this needle follicles can be aspirated, and the follicular fluid is handed to the IVF laboratory to identify ova. The retrieval procedure takes about 20 minutes and is usually done under conscious sedation or general anaesthesia.
    Doesn't sound too bad, though infinitely more scarce in comparison to the plenitude and pleasure associated with sperm donation.

    Let's see: an avg. of $7,500 per egg X approx. 12 ovulations per year = $90,000!

    If it is possible to safely donate that regularly, and if I were female, I'd much rather do that for a living than almost anything else. The supply vs. demand of eggs relative to sperm clearly justifies such a huge differential in the $ for donation. I don't have a problem with it. Although, if say 20% of females made their living just through egg donation (highly doubtful would ever happen) I would be rather jealous. I don't think it's morally corrupt for women to sell their eggs at all. IVF does add to population, but as is currently practiced, it is but a small part of the problem.

    The large amount of $ given for eggs is just another symptom of our growth/debt based economy. We keep selling our grandchildren and the resource base of the Earth down the river, for a bit more of an easy living present. These kinds of egg prices will have to crash by the time world oil production falls to 2/3 of its present level. Eggs represent the ability to grow. But the ability to grow means nothing if there is no energy to feed it.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  6. #6
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    ????
    Posts
    1,184
    I have no problem with it. We were told that there was an incredibly small chance that we would ever be able to have kids without some serious medical intervention and even then the chances were way under 1%. We were very close to doing this. After all the testing, doctors appointments, etc. we decided the mental rollercoaster of the whole thing was not worth it. We had the money and had started looking into foreign adoption. Literally the day after we started doing serious research on the internet about it, my wife peed on a stick "just to see" and voila, twins. The only thing my wife did(well, besides the act) was take the smallest dose of clomed(sp?). Thank God we refused the higher dosage!

    If someone can make some money this way than go for it. The amount of people who can afford this are so small that I don't think it contributes to the global population problem at all.

    There is no injustice in the difference in expense. Women have a limited number of eggs, men do not have a limited number of swimmers. if you look at them as commodities, they are priced right.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Section 14-12-7, 3rd PM
    Posts
    2,096
    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq View post
    Let's see: an avg. of $7,500 per egg X approx. 12 ovulations per year = $90,000!
    They pump you up full of drugs so you can release 12 eggs at once. You (women) better not be afraid of needles though, daily shots for weeks.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wishing I were in Asia somewhere!
    Posts
    10,676
    Blog entries
    5
    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq View post
    According to wikipedia:

    Doesn't sound too bad, though infinitely more scarce in comparison to the plenitude and pleasure associated with sperm donation.

    Let's see: an avg. of $7,500 per egg X approx. 12 ovulations per year = $90,000!

    If it is possible to safely donate that regularly, and if I were female, I'd much rather do that for a living than almost anything else. The supply vs. demand of eggs relative to sperm clearly justifies such a huge differential in the $ for donation. I don't have a problem with it. Although, if say 20% of females made their living just through egg donation (highly doubtful would ever happen) I would be rather jealous. I don't think it's morally corrupt for women to sell their eggs at all. IVF does add to population, but as is currently practiced, it is but a small part of the problem.

    The large amount of $ given for eggs is just another symptom of our growth/debt based economy. We keep selling our grandchildren and the resource base of the Earth down the river, for a bit more of an easy living present. These kinds of egg prices will have to crash by the time world oil production falls to 2/3 of its present level. Eggs represent the ability to grow. But the ability to grow means nothing if there is no energy to feed it.

    Unfortunately I think that you have contributed to the misconception of how "easy" it is to be an egg donor and it is not something that a woman can do month after month as you put it in your crude calculation of raw profit. A woman must go through extensive screening for a number of reasons-health and otherwise. Going through the actual donation process brings with it a number of health risks from the hormonal therapy they must go through in order to hyperstimulate the ovaries into producing as many eggs as possible at one time. The actual retrieval of the eggs is no cake walk even under so called anesthesia (I had an ovarian cyst aspirated once using the same method and it was not pleasant). Perhaps this is a little more explanatory of the procedure and its risks http://www.stanford.edu/class/siw198...rocedures.html

    My own perspective is that I think that if both sides are willing to engage in an egg donation after understanding the risks involved then I don't have an issue with it. That said, I do think that there are so many children that need a home and that people get so obsessed with having a genetic offspring that they will go to any lengths to have just that. In the words of a good friend who experienced infertility and two years of intensive procedures trying to conceive "The light bulb went on one day when I was thinking about what I wanted more: to be a mother or to have a baby?" They ultimately adopted a little girl from China. Due to my own health issues, it is quite likely that I will have another biological child and in the event that I felt the need to add another child to my family I would definitely adopt.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  9. #9
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    New Town
    Posts
    3,968
    Personally, I find the whole IVF as well as fertility drugs a bit freaky, but I wouldn't go so far as to tell people not to do it. We have some good friends who went this route and we of course support and love them and their *twins*(yeah, that's one of the gambles you take). I was shocked by the outrageous money they spent on this, but it was their decision and they are a nice healthy family, so I have no objections.

    The value of eggs issue is simple supply and demand. Women only produce so many and the ones produced during a certain age range are the most likely to be healthy. Guys make 80 guzillion sperm and can do so for their entire lives, so its not much of a rare commodity.

    Somewhat off-topic:
    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    It's the impoverished families that live in Third World countries that have 6 children and yet get them innoculated and thereby survive the diseases that otherwise would have killed most off in infancy that are causing astronomical birthrates globally.
    Having many children was (at least at some point) the trend in most every human society. Innoculations are one thing that impacts health into adulthood and can cause a population increase, but what is most significant in reducing birthrate (or so the population economists say) is level of educaiton. Still, it takes some time for cultural patterns to shift.

    As education rises, birthrate decreases, especially if the prevention of childhood disease is in the mix and parents are reasonably assured kids will survive to adulthood. Raise people's educational opportunities, they say, and the economy improves (more entrepreneurial activity and more skilled workers to do more complex work).

    The more the economy improves, the more women begin to make economic decisions to invest more in fewer children. Urbanity also plays a big role - if food and housing is cheap, such as on a rural farm, there is little incentive to lower the birthrate because mom does not need to spend as much of her time earning income to pay for these things. In other words, the kids don't cost you much and you can use the labor. You see this pattern in the US as well - midwest farm country has larger families than large urban centers.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  10. #10
    Cyburbian dandy_warhol's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2005
    Location
    meh.
    Posts
    8,702
    Let's see: an avg. of $7,500 per egg X approx. 12 ovulations per year = $90,000!
    there is a limit of up to 6 times that a woman can be an egg donor.

    They pump you up full of drugs so you can release 12 eggs at once. You (women) better not be afraid of needles though, daily shots for weeks.
    ovaries are typically the size of walnuts and with the hormone therapy swell to the size of oranges.
    In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. -Martin Luther King Jr.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian dobopoq's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Antarctica
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally posted by kjelsadek
    Unfortunately I think that you have contributed to the misconception of how "easy" it is to be an egg donor and it is not something that a woman can do month after month as you put it in your crude calculation of raw profit. A woman must go through extensive screening for a number of reasons-health and otherwise. Going through the actual donation process brings with it a number of health risks from the hormonal therapy they must go through in order to hyperstimulate the ovaries into producing as many eggs as possible at one time. The actual retrieval of the eggs is no cake walk even under so called anesthesia (I had an ovarian cyst aspirated once using the same method and it was not pleasant). Perhaps this is a little more explanatory of the procedure and its risks http://www.stanford.edu/class/siw198...rocedures.html
    I see. No wonder it isn't all that popular.

    I did sperm donation one time for $50 bucks, but they botched the first blood sample and then I was like, "I'm not letting them do that to me again." So no go on the 50. They actually had adult magazines in this little room. It was kinda funny.

    There's always a catch somewhere. No free lunch.
    "The current American way of life is founded not just on motor transportation but on the religion of the motorcar, and the sacrifices that people are prepared to make for this religion stand outside the realm of rational criticism." -Lewis Mumford

  12. #12
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    22,343
    Off-topic:
    Wahday, I'm curious - do you by any chance have any background in anthropology? On numerous occasions I have found myself reading your posts and saying 'damn, that sounds exactly like something I would say or think'.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Rumpy Tunanator's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Intervention
    Posts
    4,475
    Quote Originally posted by dobopoq View post
    I see. No wonder it isn't all that popular.

    I did sperm donation one time for $50 bucks...
    The horror, the horror.

    Some time in the near future there will be a riot against wearing suits.











  14. #14
    Cyburbian cch's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Machesney Park, IL
    Posts
    1,437
    I'll go ahead and share with you all that my husband and I have been trying to make our little girl into a big sister for 11 months now. We are getting a little worried, but we had no problems conceiving her, and we are young enough that there isn't a rush and we won't consider medical intervention for another year or so. But, I've joined an online message board of other women in my situation, only most of them get impatient and start asking for medical help after 6 months or so. And from what these women say, their doctors prescribe a pretty aggressive course of action straight out of the gate, which would freak me out. Also, I saw a news story a few weeks back about how younger women are getting fertility help from doctors, because they refuse to just give it time. And most doctors oblige. I think that is part of the problem.

    As for donating eggs, I'd only do it if a close family or friend needed it, to help her have a child. I'd never do it anonymously, just as I don't know how some guys keep donating sperm. I think some of them are ego-maniacs, and just want a lot of little versions of themselves running around.

    And as for the population problem, most IVF couples are using just to make their first or second kid, so they aren't contributing to over-population. They are just replacing themselves.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    New Town
    Posts
    3,968
    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    Off-topic:
    Wahday, I'm curious - do you by any chance have any background in anthropology? On numerous occasions I have found myself reading your posts and saying 'damn, that sounds exactly like something I would say or think'.
    Busted! My BA was in Cultural Anthropology. I also have an MA in Folklore, a bastard cousin of Anthro once-removed. People would ask me what one does with such a degree. The answer, of course, is that you go back to school for Planning.

    Amazingly, I actually combine the two at my current job...

    I am guessing you studied anthropology as well?
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  16. #16
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    22,343
    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    Busted! My BA was in Cultural Anthropology. I also have an MA in Folklore, a bastard cousin of Anthro once-removed. People would ask me what one does with such a degree. The answer, of course, is that you go back to school for Planning.

    Amazingly, I actually combine the two at my current job...

    I am guessing you studied anthropology as well?
    Off-topic:
    BA in Cultural Anth and BS in Geography. Now I understand why I was feeling bombarded with postmodern brainwaves
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. List of Schiavo Donors To Be Sold
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 16
    Last post: 08 Apr 2005, 12:50 PM