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Thread: Run, Forrest, Run....

  1. #151
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    I'm running in a 5K on Saturday. It's sponsored by my old neighborhood association where I used to live in Grand Rapids.

    It's Halloween/costume themed. Very fun. http://www.alger5k.com/

    All 4 of us are running/jogging/walking in it. I think my BIL as well. He ran last year. If you click on the Registration tab, there a picture of my BIL dressed as Mario and my youngest daughter dressed as Peach.

    This year, I will be running as a GhostBuster.
    Did he run with her on his back the entire race? That is tough
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  2. #152
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Doing a 26 mile biking event with my 12 yo son on Sunday. Also Halloween/Day of the Dead themed. Called Day of the Tread. Should be fun though I am still unsure about my costume.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  3. #153
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    I ran 5.5 miles this morning. It was 14 Fahrenheit when I stepped off to start my run (12 when I finished). I had so many layers on that it was pretty slow going until I got used to the extra bulkiness. It was so cold that my little LED headlamp's battery was nearly drained about 3 blocks from my house. So far this was the coldest I've run in this season; next Tuesday it is supposed to be about 6 around 5:00 a.m.... I think I'll probably go to the gym that morning instead.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  4. #154
    Cyburbian SW MI Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    I ran 5.5 miles this morning. It was 14 Fahrenheit when I stepped off to start my run (12 when I finished). I had so many layers on that it was pretty slow going until I got used to the extra bulkiness. It was so cold that my little LED headlamp's battery was nearly drained about 3 blocks from my house. So far this was the coldest I've run in this season; next Tuesday it is supposed to be about 6 around 5:00 a.m.... I think I'll probably go to the gym that morning instead.
    Wow, good for you fo getting out there. My fingers and toes and nose freeze up when it dips below 30 degrees, regardless of how many layers I wear.

  5. #155
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    I ran 5.5 miles this morning. It was 14 Fahrenheit when I stepped off to start my run (12 when I finished). I had so many layers on that it was pretty slow going until I got used to the extra bulkiness. It was so cold that my little LED headlamp's battery was nearly drained about 3 blocks from my house. So far this was the coldest I've run in this season; next Tuesday it is supposed to be about 6 around 5:00 a.m.... I think I'll probably go to the gym that morning instead.
    Good on ya! I like running in the cold. Read a NYTimes article some years back about cold weather activity and if its bad for you (its not). The story started out with a woman recounting running/snowshoing/etc. in Alaska during the winter. Some of the temps were outrageous but as her boyfriend kept telling here, "just keep moving and you will be fine." That gave me confidence to keep up my activity during the cold months.

    I ran last night in 23F and it was actually great. My feet and legs really never get cold running, though coldest I have tried is probably around 15 or so. My main challenge is my head. I need one of those bands that just covers the ears or ear muffs. Once I get too hot, I want to remove the hat, but then my ears freeze. I usually start out with gloves and then stuff them in my pockets about halfway through a 3 miler. For last night, I just wore two long underwear tops and a fleece vest. On my legs I had your typical athletic pants and pair of tri-shorts underneath (not nylon shell pants, but that shiny fabric that has a little thickness to it). I could have gotten away with one top and the vest or two tops and no vest really.

    I also love biking in the winter (mountain biking in particular as I use more of my body and get less cold in places like feet and upper body). Its a great feeling to be out in the cold and feel warm from your own energy. And hardly anyone else is out. Also, the leaves are gone and there is better visibility in the denser areas. You can really tear it up!

    Hoping to do some trail running Saturday morning with a nice new pair of shoes I picked up on clearance at REI. Brooks Pure Grit they are called. Used them three times so far ont he street and they are great.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  6. #156
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    Good on ya! I like running in the cold. Read a NYTimes article some years back about cold weather activity and if its bad for you (its not). The story started out with a woman recounting running/snowshoing/etc. in Alaska during the winter. Some of the temps were outrageous but as her boyfriend kept telling here, "just keep moving and you will be fine." That gave me confidence to keep up my activity during the cold months...
    There is a guy at my gym who is a pretty accomplished amateur distance runner and a pulmonary cardiologist and I asked him once about running in the cold weather and he said as long as you're relatively healthy and used to running, it shouldn't be a problem. He says he wouldn't advise somebody to begin a running regimen in cold weather though, especially if they are out of shape. He did tell me to stop running with my full nylon head mask that covers my mouth and nose or to at least pull it down away from my nose at the very least because it cuts down on the amount of oxygen I can breath in and the tiny crystals that form on it from the freezing of my exhausted carbon dioxide can get sucked back into my circulatory system when I inhale tiring me out much fast. Made sense so I followed his advice.


    One thing I wonder about running in colder weather but have never bothered looking in to - Do you burn more calories in severely cold weather because your body is using them to help keep you warm?
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  7. #157
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    There is a guy at my gym who is a pretty accomplished amateur distance runner and a pulmonary cardiologist and I asked him once about running in the cold weather and he said as long as you're relatively healthy and used to running, it shouldn't be a problem. He says he wouldn't advise somebody to begin a running regimen in cold weather though, especially if they are out of shape...


    One thing I wonder about running in colder weather but have never bothered looking in to - Do you burn more calories in severely cold weather because your body is using them to help keep you warm?
    Ha! Well, I started running 5 years ago as a new year's resolution. And that was a cold January! I survived, but sounds like it wasn't the most responsible time to start...

    You may be right about burning more calories, though if you are already moving, the need to generate additional heat may not be there. But I have heard, if you are winter camping, that you burn more calories while sleeping because of the cold and that its important to stock up on caloric items before bed.

    Run along now!
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  8. #158
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    I am trying to get back into running. When I play soccer it is easier to get motivated since I play better when I run a few days a week. I don't like running but I like the health benefits.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  9. #159
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Registration for the Marine Corps Marathon opened up to the public today and I've been trying to get through for about the past hour but their system keeps crashing. I think they've hyped up the fact that they sold out in under 3 hours last year so much that their servers can not handle the initial wave of people trying to register for this year. Why they don't allow veterans to have first dibs (specifically Marine Corps veterans) like they do with active duty personnel is beyond me.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  10. #160
    Cyburbian Plus dandy_warhol's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    Registration for the Marine Corps Marathon opened up to the public today and I've been trying to get through for about the past hour but their system keeps crashing. I think they've hyped up the fact that they sold out in under 3 hours last year so much that their servers can not handle the initial wave of people trying to register for this year. Why they don't allow veterans to have first dibs (specifically Marine Corps veterans) like they do with active duty personnel is beyond me.
    That does seem like a stupid system. Vets should definitely have a higher priority than regular folks.
    In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. -Martin Luther King Jr.

  11. #161
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dandy_warhol View post
    That does seem like a stupid system. Vets should definitely have a higher priority than regular folks.
    After about 90 minutes of refreshing the Marine Corps Marathon and the Active.com website I finally got through.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  12. #162
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    In preparation for the Marine Corps Marathon (7 months away), I am going to try to actually follow a training plan. I've run a handful of marathons over the past few years but my times are all over the place and I always finish my marathons (and my more frequent half marathons) feeling like I didn't pace myself correctly and have energy to spare and I want to try to tap into that and also to really test myself.

    Hitting 50 to 75 miles a week is no problem for me, especially when the weather starts being nice more consistently but I've never really done any speed work so a training plan will hopefully help with that. My plan, based on mileage over the last few years and old run times, is to do an "intermediate" marathon training plan through the early spring (without actually running a marathon at the end), tapering off for a few weeks, and then starting over with a slightly more advanced training plan that will end with the Marine Corps Marathon at the end of October.

    My goal is 3:40 minutes, which is about 10 minutes faster than my best marathon.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  13. #163
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    In preparation for the Marine Corps Marathon (7 months away), I am going to try to actually follow a training plan. I've run a handful of marathons over the past few years but my times are all over the place and I always finish my marathons (and my more frequent half marathons) feeling like I didn't pace myself correctly and have energy to spare and I want to try to tap into that and also to really test myself.

    Hitting 50 to 75 miles a week is no problem for me, especially when the weather starts being nice more consistently but I've never really done any speed work so a training plan will hopefully help with that. My plan, based on mileage over the last few years and old run times, is to do an "intermediate" marathon training plan through the early spring (without actually running a marathon at the end), tapering off for a few weeks, and then starting over with a slightly more advanced training plan that will end with the Marine Corps Marathon at the end of October.

    My goal is 3:40 minutes, which is about 10 minutes faster than my best marathon.
    Personally I have never had luck with Hal Higdon's workouts, which is what I am guessing you are going to follow. I think most either ignore your baseline build up phase, or he overemphasizes your ability to succeed at speed workouts. Personally, I think you use them as a baseline, but work through how your body feels and how you do during your "workout" that week. If you do repeats (which anything under 1200 or 1600 for a marathon is wasted effort) you need to focus on the rest, not the speed. The concept is to get your body comfortable with the pain and ability to work past it.

    Good luck!
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  14. #164
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Personally I have never had luck with Hal Higdon's workouts, which is what I am guessing you are going to follow. I think most either ignore your baseline build up phase, or he overemphasizes your ability to succeed at speed workouts. Personally, I think you use them as a baseline, but work through how your body feels and how you do during your "workout" that week. If you do repeats (which anything under 1200 or 1600 for a marathon is wasted effort) you need to focus on the rest, not the speed. The concept is to get your body comfortable with the pain and ability to work past it.

    Good luck!
    I looked at the Higdon workouts but am using one through a guy named Jeff Gaudette. I picked his mainly because it integrates nicely with the run tracker I use on my iPhone.

    I know the main goal of a training plan should be to get that baseline and stamina and to be able to control and work through the pain and discomfort but I think I've got that part under my belt already (six years in the Marine Corps will really change your attitude on what sort of discomfort you can work through... much more so than anything else I've ever done). I've just never done any speed work so I really would like to incorporate some of that into my routine to see what my body is capable of. The past few half marathons I've run, I've run with a pace group (and steadily moved up a couple minutes each time) and I've discovered that that was a huge benefit.

    Up until now, I would just wake up 4 or 5 days a week and go for a totally un-structured run of 6 to 12 miles before work. Now it's time to actually get some structure and routine.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  15. #165
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    Up until now, I would just wake up 4 or 5 days a week and go for a totally un-structured run of 6 to 12 miles before work. Now it's time to actually get some structure and routine.
    I hear you. Yea there is definitely a difference between a lactic threshold type run and an aerobic type run. Running portions of longer runs at a higher tempo will do this more effectively than traditional "speed work". I don't know how it is structured, but I would shy away from distance repeats (i.e. 400 x 8, or 6 x mile) and look more at timed intervals (i.e. 6 x 2minutes). If you are running at 8 minute pace and throw in 2:00 minutes at 7 minutes pace 6 times in a one hour run you are teaching your body to effectively handle the lactic "shock" that your legs get when they push hard.

    I am not trying to come off as "coachy"... I just love to coach and have run at a pretty high level so this stuff kinda gets me. Ignore me if you want
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  16. #166
    Cyburbian Plus dandy_warhol's avatar
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    Good luck with your training plan! I like the structure and routine aspect of a training plan. As a novice I had success with Hal Higdon's beginner HM training.
    In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. -Martin Luther King Jr.

  17. #167
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    I am not trying to come off as "coachy"... I just love to coach and have run at a pretty high level so this stuff kinda gets me. Ignore me if you want
    I like the coachiness. And what you say makes sense in my brain. I have always tried to do a few intervals during my long runs - I would normally try to up my pace through a block or two when running in the neighborhoods with a nice grid pattern and then back it off for a mile or so and repeat. The training plan I am using has a few days of 4x600 or 4x1600 or whatever (I haven't looked at each days plan really enough to know more than that there are some intervals). Maybe it will be a good idea to continue to try and up the pace for a few minutes every few miles during my longer runs as well.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  18. #168
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    I like the coachiness. And what you say makes sense in my brain. I have always tried to do a few intervals during my long runs - I would normally try to up my pace through a block or two when running in the neighborhoods with a nice grid pattern and then back it off for a mile or so and repeat. The training plan I am using has a few days of 4x600 or 4x1600 or whatever (I haven't looked at each days plan really enough to know more than that there are some intervals). Maybe it will be a good idea to continue to try and up the pace for a few minutes every few miles during my longer runs as well.
    Yea, just remember that once you start speed work you need to have rest days. Even if you feel good. If you are doing blocks (i.e. 3 or 4 week cycles) just make sure you rest between blocks. I always found that taking two days off in a row was the magic for me. Depending on your mileage and your number of days running it might be something else for your body.

    Speed work increase your ability to get hurt, so you have to be aware that it will make you faster it will also get you hurt faster. Stretch before, after, and during if you need to. The easiest way to not follow a training plan is to get hurt.

    For half marathons I get why you might do repeat miles, but for a marathon I can't come up with any reasons. The trick to to increase the amount of "on" time for runs. So for example (one of my weeks would look like this) -

    wk1 -
    Sun -45 minute run (at pace)
    Mon - 1 hr run (6 x 2min @ 7m pace)
    Tues - 30 minute run (recovery)
    Wed - 45 minute run (recovery)
    Thurs - 1 hr run (at pace)
    Fri - 1 hour run (15 minutes warm up, 30 minutes at pace minus 30 seconds, 15 minute cool down)
    Sat - 30 minute run (recovery)

    So the concept is that you define your pace for the marathon (So say 8 minute miles) and work from that as your base. This assumes that you have a solid enough base to be able to do this for at least 10 miles, which I argue is the cut off. If you can't run 10 miles at your desired marathon pace, you shouldn't train at it yet...

    Hope that makes some sense.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  19. #169
    Cyburbian SW MI Planner's avatar
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    I was way too big for my britches back in January when I signed up for a half marathon this spring. Next Saturday. 9 days away. I feel like I may throw up, poop my pants, or both.

    Mind you, I am so much further along than when I started, but no where close to where I should be to run a half marthon. Especially next Saturday, 9 days away. My biggest goal is to not die or become maimed in any way because my friends and family will be there (sister is coming from the UP to run it) and we are going to Bells afterward for one or ten celebratory Oberons*. Secondary goal is to not be the last peron in the race where the police are pacing behind me, or even last in my age group*. Review of last years results indicate I should be ok in all these instances. I don't want to run for as long as I can and then suck it the rest of the race, so need to come up with a Plan B.

    *The irony is not lost on me that part of the reason I'm not where I need to be is because I'd much rather be drinking Oberon's or other varieties of cocktails than running.

    *Last year in 35-39 age group dammit.

  20. #170
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    Good luck training wsu mup student! Similar to you blocks....I have always done what I call light poles

    Next spring the rock n roll marathon is coming to Raleigh and I'm considering it to avenge my not so great marathon time and do what I know I'm capable of (blister free!). I'm in the market for some new shoes too...who has the best lightweight/support shoe right now?
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  21. #171
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by beach_bum View post
    Who has the best lightweight/support shoe right now?
    If you haven't already gone to an actual running store to be fitted, that should be your first step. Through years of running I had never bothered doing that until back in January. It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know (or rather, I just had luckily been using the right type of shoes for my running) but it did help me realize why some of the shoes I tried a few years ago were horrible for me.

    Granted, all of my experience is based off of men's shoes, but...

    I've gone through about 10 different minimal style shoes over the last couple of years and keep coming back to the New Balance Minimus 10 (they are currently on version 2). I never seem to develop hot spots or blisters in them, even after repeated 15+ mile runs. My old pair finally hit the end of their useful like recently so I picked up two pair to rotate through between now and the Marine Corps Marathon.

    Some other shoes I've tried recently:

    Early this year I got a pair of Brooks Pure Drift. They seem a bit lighter than my NB and have a slightly wider toe box. They are comfortable on short runs but they seem awful on then longer runs. These days, I only wear them if I am headed out for about 7 miles or less, or if I am going to spend a lot of the time on trails (they really kill me on concrete). Anything longer than that and I start to get horrible hot spots on my insteps.

    I had a good coupon code for Eastbay and they were having a sale that I could stack it with so I picked up a pair of Saucony Kinvara 3. These are supposed to be another 0 drop shoe (like the NB and the Brooks above) but they seem to have quite a bit more padding than both of those. I'm really liking these a lot more than I thought I would and I am really considering wearing these for my marathon, I have a long time to decide though. Of the shoes I've mentioned so far, these are also my favorites for days when I am going to run on the track... for some reason the Brooks and the NB seem to shift under my foot on the repeated turns in the same direction (if that makes any sense).

    Lastly, I got a pair of Nike Free 3.0. I had a heard mixed reviews on the Nike Free shoes but a local store was having a closeout on last year's style and decided to give them a try. I really wanted to get the 4.0 or the 5.0 but they had neither available in my size so I tried the 3.0. It's much more cushioning than I am used to lately but I've decided that I really like these too. I've only worn them on three runs outside (12 miles and 8 miles twice) and to the gym a few times, but so far so good. I am planning to run another 12 tomorrow morning and will probably wear these again. I've heard that the quality of the construction of the Nikes will be their downfall... we shall see.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  22. #172
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    If you haven't already gone to an actual running store to be fitted, that should be your first step. Through years of running I had never bothered doing that until back in January. It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know (or rather, I just had luckily been using the right type of shoes for my running) but it did help me realize why some of the shoes I tried a few years ago were horrible for me.

    Some other shoes I've tried recently:

    Early this year I got a pair of Brooks Pure Drift. They seem a bit lighter than my NB and have a slightly wider toe box. They are comfortable on short runs but they seem awful on then longer runs. These days, I only wear them if I am headed out for about 7 miles or less, or if I am going to spend a lot of the time on trails (they really kill me on concrete). Anything longer than that and I start to get horrible hot spots on my insteps.

    I had a good coupon code for Eastbay and they were having a sale that I could stack it with so I picked up a pair of Saucony Kinvara 3. These are supposed to be another 0 drop shoe (like the NB and the Brooks above) but they seem to have quite a bit more padding than both of those. I'm really liking these a lot more than I thought I would and I am really considering wearing these for my marathon, I have a long time to decide though. Of the shoes I've mentioned so far, these are also my favorites for days when I am going to run on the track... for some reason the Brooks and the NB seem to shift under my foot on the repeated turns in the same direction (if that makes any sense).

    Lastly, I got a pair of Nike Free 3.0. I had a heard mixed reviews on the Nike Free shoes but a local store was having a closeout on last year's style and decided to give them a try. I really wanted to get the 4.0 or the 5.0 but they had neither available in my size so I tried the 3.0. It's much more cushioning than I am used to lately but I've decided that I really like these too. I've only worn them on three runs outside (12 miles and 8 miles twice) and to the gym a few times, but so far so good. I am planning to run another 12 tomorrow morning and will probably wear these again. I've heard that the quality of the construction of the Nikes will be their downfall... we shall see.
    I definitely will go to a running store, I have been doing that for years (I know better than trying to pick them out myself!)

    I have been wearing Mizuno Wave Inspires...in a wide shoe to give me extra room in my toe box area. Over the years I have always gravitated towards a shoe that gives me ample room in my toe box since I'm a little wider and taller in my forefoot area that the average, despite my small shoe size/petite frame, I also really like a lightweight shoe for that same reason and I'm a overpronater/forefoot/mid-foot striker...that's a rare bird of a shoe because most of the support shoes tend to be on the heavy side. The last pair of those shoes I had were just ok and caused me terrible blisters under my toes during my marathon, would like to try something else...was looking at the Brooks Glycerin online last night.
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  23. #173
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    I got in just under 10 miles this morning before work putting me at 502 miles total so far this year. I am now halfway to my goal of 1,000 miles for the year with 7 months left.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  24. #174
    Cyburbian Plus dandy_warhol's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    I got in just under 10 miles this morning before work putting me at 502 miles total so far this year. I am now halfway to my goal of 1,000 miles for the year with 7 months left.
    Awesome!!
    In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. -Martin Luther King Jr.

  25. #175
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Since the beginning of February, I've been running on my treadmill for 1-2 miles, approximately 4 days a week. Combined with a somewhat more healthy diet (less alchohol, less soda), my clothes are fitting better.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

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