Urban planning community | #theplannerlife

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Found after 4 years of captivity

  1. #1
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    16,932

    Found after 4 years of captivity

    By now everyone knows about the two boys that were rescued from a kidnaper. One was in captivity for 4 days, the other for 4 years.

    While it is no doubt that the one who was there for 4 days will have some emotional trauma, can you imagine trying to go back to your Ďold lifeí after being in captivity for 4 years by a person who played continuous mental games with the kid. This kid had been picked up by the police one or twice for being out too late... but not saying who he really was in fear that this guy would go after the rest of his family.

    Will he ever be able to feel secure again? What are your thoughts on this case, his future, and his family?

    What if you where is parents, how much of a shock would it be to learn that he was not only found, but that he is fine and coming home!

    I think that his story and road to recovery (being able to reestablish his life with his friends and family) will end up being a case example one day. As cold as this sounds, it is a fascinating case and raises numerous questions about the limits of mental control of one person on another person.

    As a side note, I would support locking the kidnaper in a locked room with the fathers of these boys.
    If you're not growing, you're dying. - Lou Holtz

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    The Emerald Coast
    Posts
    17,547
    Terrible story. I wish all the best for the boys (being a father of two); it’s parent’s worst nightmare.



    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    ....As a side note, I would support locking the kidnaper in a locked room with the fathers of these boys.
    You don’t believe in this country’s justice system? And if you were falsely accused? There are protections in place; it’s called the United States Constitution. Sometimes it’s not fair. But it’s the best system to this point (notwithstanding jaws view of things).
    Annoyingly insensitive

  3. #3
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    16,932
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    Terrible story. I wish all the best for the boys (being a father of two); itís parentís worst nightmare.



    You donít believe in this countryís justice system? And if you were falsely accused? There are protections in place; itís called the United States Constitution. Sometimes itís not fair. But itís the best system to this point (notwithstanding jaws view of things).
    The court can have this guy when the Dad's are done with him
    If you're not growing, you're dying. - Lou Holtz

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    The court can have this guy when the Dad's are done with him
    Don't fret about it: I have heard that prisoners can be pretty brutal to people who do nasty things to children. Sometimes these type of prisoners just, oops, have an accident one day and wind up maimed or dead. Can be within 6 months of going to jail. The dad's can keep their hands clean, which they need to do so they can fulfill their obligation to resume raising these boys and try to undo the damage done to them. A parent cannot afford to be petty and vengeful when all that will result in is more harm to their child.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    The Emerald Coast
    Posts
    17,547
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    The court can have this guy when the Dad's are done with him
    Thatís not the way it works.

    Off-topic:
    For as much as you despise several of the systems and processes of this county, you need to arrive at the realization that the justice system is the last protection for the minority from the persecution of the majority. As much ridicule as it gets, I'm going to stick up for the justice system. Maybe Iím naive, but I believe in it.

    Next time, call Ghost Busters.

    Iím done now.
    I know, way OT.
    Annoyingly insensitive

  6. #6
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Appleton, Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,195
    Quote Originally posted by Michele Zone View post
    Don't fret about it: I have heard that prisoners can be pretty brutal to people who do nasty things to children. Sometimes these type of prisoners just, oops, have an accident one day and wind up maimed or dead. Can be within 6 months of going to jail. The dad's can keep their hands clean, which they need to do so they can fulfill their obligation to resume raising these boys and try to undo the damage done to them. A parent cannot afford to be petty and vengeful when all that will result in is more harm to their child.
    Child molestors are the very bottom of the food chain in prisons - even the most hardened, brutal and unremorsefull killer will have zero tolerence for the presence of anyone whom has done that.

    If you drive past the Oshkosh Correctional Institute (a medium-security state prison in Oshkosh, WI) on US 41, you will notice a smaller cellblock building that is closer to the highway than and separate from the bigger main building. That is a segregation unit built soley to keep child molestors alive.
    (see: http://www.terraserver-usa.com/image...75&Y=24404&W=3
    This prison has since been doubled in size with the expansion being to the east.)

    Also, even though Wisconsin does not have a death penalty (only a statutory thing, nothing in the state constitution prevents it, but that is an unrelated tangent), it is pretty much an open secret that Jeffry Dahmer got a 'wink wink nod nod' death sentence when he was sentenced to life-no parole and sent to the general population in the state's maximum-security prison in Portage, WI ('Columbia Correctional Institute'). The 'sentence' was carried out a few months later.

    Mike

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,061
    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Child molestors are the very bottom of the food chain in prisons - even the most hardened, brutal and unremoresefull killer will have zero tolerence for the presence of anyone whom has done that.

    If you drive past the Oshkosh Correctional Institute (a medium-security state prison in Oshkosh, WI) on US 41, you will notice a smaller cellblock building that is closer to the highway than and separate from the bigger main building. That is a segregation unit built soley to keep child molestors alive.
    (see: http://www.terraserver-usa.com/image...75&Y=24404&W=3
    The prison has since been doubled in size with the expansion being to the east.)

    Also, even though Wisconsin does not have a death penalty (only a statutory thing, nothing in the state constitution prevents it, but that is an unrelated tangent), it is pretty much an open secret that Jeffry Dahmer got a 'wink wink nod nod' death sentence when he was sentenced to life-no parole and sent to the general population in the state's maximum-security prison in Portage, WI ('Columbia Correctional Institute'). The 'sentence' was carried out a few months later.

    Mike
    Things I've read indicate that a lot of men who end up in prison are sort of there due to being "excessively male" in a PC world. One study showed that men in prison often have a perception that their "personal space" is at least twice that of what is deemed culturally normal. In extreme cases, this "personal space" extended thirty feet. In other words, if you were in the same room with them, you were invading their space and disrespecting them (unless you were a close friend and they wanted you that close). "Super macho" types who end up in jail for assault or murder have kind of a twisted version of "normal" male morality. In their own weird way, they abide by many of the same values that other men abide by, such as a fatherly feeling of protectiveness towards children. The only difference between them and civilized men is that they feel entitled to maim or murder you instead of calling the police like tamer sorts might do. I wouldn't want to be married to such a man. But I can't quite bring myself to feel moral outrage when a child molester gets murdered in prison by men who are, relatively, "more normal" in their sexual values than someone who preys upon children. Ms. Bleeding Heart Compassionate has her limits, never mind that child molesters usually ended up that way because of the twisted things someone else did to them.

    That being said, the isolation unit to keep them alive is the Civilized thing to do. Looking the other way while the other prisoners murder them is "aiding and abetting" and shouldn't be done by systemically denying them reasonable protection, given how common it is for child molesters to wind up dead at the hands of their fellow inmates.

  8. #8
         
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    3,519
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    Thatís not the way it works.

    Off-topic:
    For as much as you despise several of the systems and processes of this county, you need to arrive at the realization that the justice system is the last protection for the minority from the persecution of the majority. As much ridicule as it gets, I'm going to stick up for the justice system. Maybe Iím naive, but I believe in it.

    Next time, call Ghost Busters.

    Iím done now.
    I know, way OT.
    I believe in our system too but I do not believe you (as a father) when I say you wouldn't want 5 minutes alone with this guy. Can you honestly say if a man took one of YOUR boys, did things to him, you would be alright with him going to court, be put in a special room in a jail with access to television, books, internet, etc...live a confortable rest of his life? I can't.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    16,932
    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Child molestors are the very bottom of the food chain in prisons - even the most hardened, brutal and unremorsefull killer will have zero tolerence for the presence of anyone whom has done that.
    I did not know that! That makes me feel better knowing that thus far everything done by the police appears to be to the book, so there is no reason that this guy will not end up in prison.
    If you're not growing, you're dying. - Lou Holtz

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    The Emerald Coast
    Posts
    17,547
    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra View post
    I believe in our system too but I do not believe you (as a father) when I say you wouldn't want 5 minutes alone with this guy. Can you honestly say if a man took one of YOUR boys, did things to him, you would be alright with him going to court, be put in a special room in a jail with access to television, books, internet, etc...live a confortable rest of his life? I can't.
    Your first sentence is a totally contradictory statement!! And youíre wrong. Of course Iíd protect my sons to the fullest and want to take a Louisville Slugger to that guy and do a number on his coconut. But thatís not my role. A civil society takes complete and unequivocal responsibility for enforcement for its rules.

    Prison, a comfortable life? Get real, Jax. You donít really believe that?

    Now Iím done.
    Annoyingly insensitive

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
    Registered
    Sep 1999
    Location
    400 miles from Orlando
    Posts
    13,856
    I feel horrible for those two boys. They were alive and physically healthy, but if the guy molested them, and these two kids do live in small towns, their parents need to change their names and get them out of Dodge. They will never be able to live normally where everyone knows who they are and what happened. You can't be kidnapped for 4 days or 4 years and just drop right back into your life. I saw on the news today that Ben's uncle said nobody was pressing him to talk about it, and he was speaking only to the FBI. That is the best thing to do at the moment. Then they both need to get into counseling.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Mr. Cool Ice
    Posts
    4,163
    I truly believe that anyone who hurts a child should be put to death. They are of absolutely no use to our society, and to prey on the weakest of society is beyone abhorent.

    As a father, I'd carry out the sentence myself. So my kids would not have to live in fear that one day this scumbag will get out, and seek retribution. That is what a fathers job is.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian SW MI Planner's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,192
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    Prison, a comfortable life? Get real, Jax. You donít really believe that?
    Um, yes, it is comfortable. We have three prisons here in town, and I am friends with a lot of corrections officers. Prisoners, even maximum, have access to fitness equipment, cable tv in each of the cells, phones, HEALTH care, three meals a day, laundry service, and in general a warm place to sleep at night. Depending on security level, they may have a private room. They get paid to either have a job or get paid to go to school for their GED.

    Prisoners are treated better than homeless people, and IMHO it is disgusting. I think anytime you violate someone elses rights by committing a crime, you should default on your own. I am not saying anyone should be mistreated, but there shouldn't be as many amenities. Don't forget what they did to get in there in the first place.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Mud Princess's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Upstate
    Posts
    4,898
    There was another case where a boy kidnapped at age 7 and was held for seven years until he managed to escape his captor... when the man kidnapped another child.

    Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Stayner

    The story was made into a surprisingly effective made-for-TV movie called I Know My First Name is Steven. Sadly, Steven Stayner was killed in motorcycle accident years later.

  15. #15
         
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    3,519
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    Your first sentence is a totally contradictory statement!! And youíre wrong. Of course Iíd protect my sons to the fullest and want to take a Louisville Slugger to that guy and do a number on his coconut. But thatís not my role. A civil society takes complete and unequivocal responsibility for enforcement for its rules.

    Prison, a comfortable life? Get real, Jax. You donít really believe that?

    Now Iím done.
    Yes I really do believe that. Plenty of prisoners have more amenities than homeless or even just extremely poor people.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Northwestern Ohio
    Posts
    9,327
    For the most part, the responders to this thread have posted in reference to the last sentence in michaelskis thread-opening post. I will move to the question about "mental control".

    In the last couple days we have seen and heard a ton of reference to "Stockholm Syndrome". IMO, this will be the case.....even considering the threats made to the boy.

    Our hearts go out to these families.....let's hope they can move on without a lot of mental issues.....not sure that is going to happen.....

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Luca's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,147
    Awul...just awful.

    I really hope they do a number on this scumbag in prison.

    And yeh, if I were the dad I would want a couple of hours with him, some wire and a pair of pliers.
    Life and death of great pattern languages

  18. #18
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Mr. Cool Ice
    Posts
    4,163
    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra View post
    Yes I really do believe that. Plenty of prisoners have more amenities than homeless or even just extremely poor people.
    But you leave out the whole shanking and man rape thing. Any environment where this is a fact of life, cant be all that comfortable.

    My cousin is a guard at a max security prison, i've had the unfortunate experience of seeing him still in his uniform after work, you couldnt imagine the smell he comes home with....it isnt all about cable tv, 3 meals (we're talking slop here BTW), and some weights.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian SW MI Planner's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,192
    Quote Originally posted by Jeff View post
    But you leave out the whole shanking and man rape thing. Any environment where this is a fact of life, cant be all that comfortable.

    My cousin is a guard at a max security prison, i've had the unfortunate experience of seeing him still in his uniform after work, you couldnt imagine the smell he comes home with....it isnt all about cable tv, 3 meals (we're talking slop here BTW), and some weights.
    Maybe this is another thread, but as far as the whole shanking and man rape thing - tough. They are in there for a reason, and I personally have little sympathy for them. I do not think they should mistreated by employees at all. Compared to homeless or very poor people, prisoners are very comfortable.

  20. #20
         
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    3,519
    Quote Originally posted by Jeff View post
    But you leave out the whole shanking and man rape thing. Any environment where this is a fact of life, cant be all that comfortable.

    My cousin is a guard at a max security prison, i've had the unfortunate experience of seeing him still in his uniform after work, you couldnt imagine the smell he comes home with....it isnt all about cable tv, 3 meals (we're talking slop here BTW), and some weights.
    They did something horrible to get there and thats the consequence. Please don't get me wrong, I know there are many in prison that are possibly innocent and I would never wish that type of punishment on an innocent person. And never, ever would I wish the guard to have to see/endure some of the things they see on a daily basis. But prisoners do get 3 meals a day, a warm (or cooled) place to live/sleep, mail, a permenant address, television, music, and books, much, much more than homeless or poor people busting their arse everyday just to have a few of these very things.
    These people are criminals and have inflicted some type of pain on another human, we all know the consequences of our actions, jail is one. I am not saying its a perfect environment, or 100% comfortable, but 99% of the time justifable.

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Ghost Employee found after 12 years
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 9
    Last post: 18 Jan 2011, 2:55 PM
  2. 500 years forward or 500 years back?
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 28
    Last post: 08 Apr 2010, 6:06 PM
  3. Page Not Found
    Cyburbia Issues and Help
    Replies: 3
    Last post: 11 Oct 2006, 11:56 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last post: 16 May 2006, 5:57 PM
  5. Found
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 7
    Last post: 22 Nov 2004, 2:19 PM