S.A.C. rates the states

[Super Amputee Cat]

I will assign a letter grade to each state based on the following criteria: Recreational opportunities, physical terrain, culture, general affordability, political leanings and growth. (States that are growing too fast or are too red get lower grades in my book)

Part 1: Alabama through Kentucky.

Alabama B+. Gets high marks due to recreational opportunies in the north. Loses marks from coastal overdevelopment and general conservative populace.

Alaska: B+. Recreational opportunites and diversity of culture and wildlife are unmatched and would warrant an A. However, as one of the reddest states and it's economy dependent on oil, it's grade is lowered.

Arizona: B-. Grand Canyon and nearby recreation areas get an A, but the existance of Phoenix and it's attending sprawl warrant a big fat F.

Arkansas: A-. Scenic and affordable. Much diversity in terrain and flora. Certainly lots to do. Not as red as most southern states, especially in the Delta region.

California: B-. Overrated, but nice parks in the north. If I were to divide the state in two I would give the north half an A- and the south half a C-

Colorado: C+. Great mountain scenery but outrageously expensive. Would bump up a full letter grade if they nuked Colorado Springs. (Kidding!)

Connecticut: B-. Nice small towns and forested terrain are giving way to way too much suburban growth. A blue state to be sure, but one populated by "limosine liberals"

Delaware: B-. A couple of nice towns, but too much coastal development.

District of Columbia: B+. You could visit a different institution every day and it would take you more than a year to visit them all. If there were only a way to get rid of all the lobbysts. D. C. will probably garnish an A- once Bush leaves office in 2009.

Florida: C-. My worst state. Too many overblown, Disneyfied hellholes like Daytona Beach, Orlando and Miami. This state is going to suck America dry if another big hurricane wipes out all those $10 Milllion McMansions along the coast and these people's sense of entitlement makes me sick. Key West gets an A though.

Georgia: B-. Great National Forest areas in the north. Good roadside architecture and "rustic" landscapes in the south. However, there is the matter of Atlanta...

Hawaii: C. Never been there, but my perception is one of just a bunch of high-rises along the beach.

Idaho: B. I Know very little about Idaho. Only drove there on the way to Utah from Wyoming. What I saw was beautiful and this probably applies to the rest of this mountainous state as well. However, it has the noteriety of having the most pro-Bush county in America (Madison County 90+% for Bush)

Illinois: B-. The south is cool with lots of places to camp and bike, and there is much to do in Chicago as well. But Chicago is being ruined by both city snobs who live there and suburban snobs who commute there from their exclusionary suburban Hellholes. Their high-maintenance lifestyle and slash-and-burn sense of entitlement have resulted in the demolition of hundreds of historic buildings throughout Chicagoland. Teardowns have resulted in the construction of thousands of new condos, McMansions and high-rises which has driven out the middle classes, and made traffic congestion and attending environmental damage worse than ever. Places like Hinsdale and Orland Park are the absolute pits. Chicago-based tourists are ruining Galena. And Mayor Daley is a colossal prick.

Indiana: B+. Nice parks in the south, such as Brown County and surrounding state forest land. Pokagon State park in the NE is awesome. Lots of nice small towns. Indi is kind of overrated though and general conservative slant throughout the state keep it from being an A.

Iowa: B+-. Slightly biased view for I've only been to the Mississippi River areas and these areas are certainly worthy of an A.

Kansas: B+. Nice towns along U. S. 56, but not much recreational opportunities and the stigma of being one of the reddest of the red states.

Kentucky:A-. My third second favorite state as a kid. Great recreational oppurtunities throughout the state, especially in the east. But it has lost some of its luster due to rampant suburban growth (especially around the Cinci area) and environmental damage from strip mining conglomerates.

Louisiana: B Only been to Lake Charles and Vidalia. Would have liked to have visited The Big Easy before Katrina.

Maine: A-. Haven't been there since 1977, but it was one of the best vacations ever! Loved Mt. Desert Island and Sebago Lake and the small towns along U. S. 1. Not affordable though.

Maryland: B Nice in the Panhandle and Assateague (sp?) but loses points for DC sprawl and Ocean City.

Massachusetts: B- Too much sprawl but nice forested areas in the west.

Michigan: A- Lots of great places to hike, camp, canue, and bike in the north. Ann Arbor is great too as are Mackinac Island and Bois Blanc Island. Deficits include too much suburban growth, gaudy places like Gaylord and Mackinaw City and the wholesale destruction of Detroit.

Minnesota: B Twin Cities are OK. Know little about Minnesota outside this area. Nice views along Miss. River.

Mississippi: B+. Areas along the Trace are nice, if a somewhat distorted view of the state. I loved Nachez.

Missouri: A. Visited there last year, the first time I had really spent a lot of time in the state. Great recreational opportunities in the southeast including the Mark Twain National Forest. Decent state park system. St. Louis is fun including the Gateway Arch and the Zoo. Will visit again. Absolutely hate suburban St. Louis however.

Montana: B+ Been a while since I've been there but I liked it. Not too fond of the 60% slant for Bush however.

Nebraska: B Not seen a whole lot but I liked the drives through the prairies on U. S. 20. But its deeply red slant warrant an F.

Nevada: 2. B- A once great state ruined by tourism. But is still has nice desert views, desolate roads and remnants of ghost towns (if you can find the ones not ruined by tourists). Reno was OK but Vegas is an overblown Hellhole.

New Hampshire:A-. Awesome mountain scenery, small towns and recreational opportunities.

New Jersey: B+ Love Cape May and the northwest. Nice agricultural areas in the southwest and I hear good things about the Pine Barrens. But state is being ruined by rich Philly and NYC pricks and their "second home" McMansions on the coast. These a$$holes are driving up prices all up and down the coast and so far nothing can stop them. They are also ruining Cape May and digging their clawa into the Wildwoods. Stone Harbor is the absolute is the worst town in America.

New Mexico: B Only been in the north on the way to Taos, which I thought was is overated.

New York: B+ Great recreation in the Adirondacks and Ithaca areas. Many affordable areas upstate. Would like to visit NYC. However, too much suburban growth.

North Carolina: C+ Once my favorate state, has lost a great deal of value due to rampant growth in the Golden Traingle area. The Cape Hatteras area (other than the beautiful National Seashore) is the absolute pits.

North Dakota: B Only seen the Badlands, which was beautiful. Desolate to be sure, but that may not be such a bad thing. Consistantly one of the most crime-free states in the union but I'm not pleased with it's political leanings.

[zman]

Florida: C-. My worst state. Too many overblown, Disneyfied hellholes like Daytona Beach, Orlando and Miami. This state is going to suck America dry if another big hurricane wipes out all those $10 Milllion McMansions along the coast and these people's sense of entitlement makes me sick. Key West gets an A though.

Oh jeez Dude... get ready to run. I'm still feeling the burn from the last time I knocked America's Wang.

Colorado is expensive though, but we do have a Dem governor as well as Dems in both houses. But keep rating it as a "C", too many people here.

[Super Amputee Cat]

Ohio: B+ My home state gets points for State Park System, local recreation, bike path network, affordability, diversity of landscapes, history, and great small towns. It Loses points for "mainstream" America stigma and pro-business anti-environment Republican Government that has controlled this state for the past 15 years.

Oklahoma: B+. Beautiful in the Southeast Ozarks and Ouachita Mountain areas. The Panhandle is certainly worth a visit for the grasslands. Political climate is a negative though.

Oregon: A-. Coastal areas are nice but getting too developed. Portland is fun but not affordable. I'm sure that Crater Lake N. P. would be well worth a visit.

Pennsylvania: A-. A once "Meh" state is quickly turning out to be one of my favorite. Recreational opportunities and scenery are unsurpassed. Pittsburgh has lots too do and is still affordable. I don't see a lot of the suburban growth that is afflicting other metro areas. However, many of the small towns are in deep trouble due to unemployment.

Rhode Island: B-. Only really been to the coast. OK but too much growth

South Carolina: B. Nice mountain areas in the west and would like to see Charleston. Not impressed with Columbia although the zoo was nice.

South Dakota: A-. Probably my favorate state in the west: Badlands, Black Hills, etc. Stay away from Wall though.

Tennessee:B+. The Smokey's are nice of course, but this state loses big for the redneck Hell that is Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge. Overall, the state is not as "red" as most southern states though.

Texas: C+. Lots to do in such a geolically diverse state, but it loses bigtime for the existance of Houston, being homestate of Bush and general sense of entitlement and history of agression among its residents. Other than Austin and the deep south, this is one of the reddest areas of America.

Utah: B+. Great parks in the south as well as the National Forests around Logan. Great desert drive on U. S 50 from Delta to the Nevada State Line. Salt Lake City is a sprawl Hell though. And 71% for Bush, WTF!

Vermont: A. Great small towns and mountain scenery and all the attending recreational opportunities. Get rid of all those goddman mall developers from Connecticut who are infesting the state with SUVs and vacation homes and you have an A+ state.

Virginia: A-. I used to like this state a lot more than now, it was my second favorite state at one time. But rampant growth in northern Virginia, lack of affordability and sick sense of entitlement are dragging this state inevitably into the sewer. Still has some of the greatest camping spots in the nation.

Washington: B-. This state is the state I have spent the least amount of time in, of all the Lower 48. Only been to Vancouver.

West Virginia: A-. Gets big points for affordability and recreation. Loses points for destruction by strip mining and "going red".

Wisconsin:A. Much to do in almost all corners of the state, especially the driftless region, and the National Forest areas of far north and in the Lake Superior region. Madison and Milwaukee offer a lot. But there really isn't a whole lot of diversity and much of the south is being ruined by F.I.B.s.

Wyoming: B. Lots of parks and recreational opportunities, but the 2nd reddest of the red states loses points for destruction of environment by natural gas drilling and the general pro-Bush demographic that seems to permiate the whole state.

Oh jeez Dude... get ready to run. I'm still feeling the burn from the last time I knocked America's Wang.

Colorado is expensive though, but we do have a Dem governor as well as Dems in both houses. But keep rating it as a "C", too many people here.

I should point out that these are grades for the state overall. Indeed, every state probably has areas within that I would assign an A or and F. For example, Key West would get an A in low graded Florida and suburban St. Louis would get an F in otherwise A Missouri. My grades are just an "averaging" of a lot of different factors that apply to that particular state.

Hmm, perhaps I should grade every county.

[dandy_warhol]

Hawaii: C. Never been there, but my perception is one of just a bunch of high-rises along the beach.

i think you need to up this grade. the high rises are really only on Oahu in Waikiki and Honolulu. there are a bunch of other islands that don't have the high rises. plus it seems like all the islands have a multitude of recreational opportunities - can you say Ironman? the remoteness and high cost of living related to its remoteness would lower the score. not that you care but i would give it a strong B+.

[Dan]

Missouri: A. Visited there last year, the first time I had really spent a lot of time in the state. Great recreational opportunities in the southeast including the Mark Twain National Forest. Decent state park system. St. Louis is fun including the Gateway Arch and the Zoo. Will visit again. Absolutely hate suburban St. Louis however.

I'd give Missouri a D. If you're a geologist, I could understand giving it a C-, with the Karst and all. So much potential. The Kansas City area is the high point of the state; if it stood alone, it would be a B+ or even an A- if it had better public transportation. The urban sprawl in St. Louis is frightening; on I-70 40 miles from downtown you'll still encounter subdivisions marketing to whites leaving North St. Louis County. Dysfunctional state politics, very redneck beyond KC/Columbia/St. Louis, and if you've ever driven down I-70, it's an unbroken succession of billboards from Illinois to Kansas, even in the most isolated rural areas. There's a reason why one of the names for a mullet is the "Missouri Compromise."

[Super Amputee Cat]

[

I'd give Missouri a D. If you're a geologist, I could understand giving it a C-, with the Karst and all. So much potential. The Kansas City area is the high point of the state; if it stood alone, it would be a B+ or even an A- if it had better public transportation. The urban sprawl in St. Louis is frightening; on I-70 40 miles from downtown you'll still encounter subdivisions marketing to whites leaving North St. Louis County. Dysfunctional state politics, very redneck beyond KC/Columbia/St. Louis, and if you've ever driven down I-70, it's an unbroken succession of billboards from Illinois to Kansas, even in the most isolated rural areas. There's a reason why one of the names for a mullet is the "Missouri Compromise."

Yeah, we saw a lot of that when we were down there. It's also some of the "whitest" areas of the country which is a deficit. There has too be some diversity. And I haven't forgotten that this state went to the dark side in the 2004 election.

However, my criteria gives highest marks to recreation (especially camping and canueing) and quality and diversity of the physical terrain. I like heavily forested lands with low rolling hills and lots of clear streams. I also give a lot of weight to bicycle oriented recreation. Missouri has one of the best trails in the country: The Katy Trail which runs almost the entire width of the state.

We were in St. Charles last year and rode part of the Katy Trail. We only rode about 9 miles round trip (my eight year old son and six year old daughter were with me) because it got up to 100F that day and I was worried that my son would collapse from the heat. I kept having to pour water on him. (My daughter was fine, I had her on the trail-a-bike!)

Here are some pictures from that day.

[jmello]

Rhode Island: B-. Only really been to the coast. OK but too much growth

The whole state is on the coast. It has 400+ miles of shoreline. As far as growth, I don't know what you are talking about. The state's population has hovered around 1M for decades and the new housing starts are some of the lowest in the nation. All of the "growth" happened almost 100 years ago.

A stagnant economy, graying population, out of reach housing costs and a terrible tax burden would be more appropriate negative factors for Little Rhody.

Great ocean access (miles of state- and town-owned beaches), easy access to Boston, New York and the mountains of northern New England, healthy and diverse cities, a socially progressive government, the Family Guy and the Farrelly brothers would be the positives.

As my home state, it gets an A+

[Clore]

PA gets a D. Sorry- our state's planning code is sooooo vague and weak, leading to haphazard development, local officials who are caught between wanting to do the right thing and not being empowered to, to those who don't care and aren't held to any standards. Meanwhile, the Governor authorizes brownfields projects that rip down National Register eligible buildings in the interest of bringing manufacturing jobs?! And this in a heritage tourism area.... sad sad sad. We're lucky we've got the recreational and natural resource assets. Let's see if we can step up and keep them...

[planning_chick]

Clore I am right there with you. I think the areas that have been pressured with development need to be looked at too. Although PA does have wonderful rec opportunities, those were 'god' given and not thanks to anything the commonwealth has done.

[JNA]

Maryland: B Nice in the Panhandle
New Jersey: B+ I hear good things about the Pine Barrens.
New York: B+ Great recreation in the Adirondacks.
Utah: B+. the National Forests around Logan.

Good points.
The Jersey Shore where I grew up is changing too.

[DetroitPlanner]

Michigan has deficits???

Which Bois Blanc are you speaking of, the one in Detroit is actually in Ontario. If you mean the one in Lac Huron, thats cool. Say hi to my cousin Joe, he has an office next to the Ferry in Cheboygan!

[Super Amputee Cat]

The whole state is on the coast. It has 400+ miles of shoreline. As far as growth, I don't know what you are talking about. The state's population has hovered around 1M for decades and the new housing starts are some of the lowest in the nation. All of the "growth" happened almost 100 years ago.

A stagnant economy, graying population, out of reach housing costs and a terrible tax burden would be more appropriate negative factors for Little Rhody.

Great ocean access (miles of state- and town-owned beaches), easy access to Boston, New York and the mountains of northern New England, healthy and diverse cities, a socially progressive government, the Family Guy and the Farrelly brothers would be the positives.

As my home state, it gets an A+

The only area I was in was Matinuck, plus the main road from the Connecticut border leading to it (I don't remember the route number.) It seemed Ok, but a little sterlile. I saw a bunch of beach cottages there but I can't remember if they were just modernized old cottages or brand new ones. After all, it was almost fifteen years ago I was there, another dimention of time. If the cottages were old I will give them credit for retaining them rather than replacing them with McMansions. But I suspect a lot was lost in the 1938 Hurricane.

The growth I saw was more like 1960s and 1970s stuff, which compared to the pretentious crap they churn out today, is OK. But nothing really charming. I really didn't see a whole lot of unsullied downtowns like you would find in Vermont.

We did see the outskirts of Providence, but not in the city itself. Perhaps if I did, this would have elevated my rating, I was supposed to go there in 2001 for the National Preservation Conference, but it was just after the terrorist attacks and I was unable to go.

PA gets a D. Sorry- our state's planning code is sooooo vague and weak, leading to haphazard development, local officials who are caught between wanting to do the right thing and not being empowered to, to those who don't care and aren't held to any standards. Meanwhile, the Governor authorizes brownfields projects that rip down National Register eligible buildings in the interest of bringing manufacturing jobs?! And this in a heritage tourism area.... sad sad sad. We're lucky we've got the recreational and natural resource assets. Let's see if we can step up and keep them...

Like I said earlier, I give heavy weight to recreation and physical terrain. The parts I have visited (Clarion/Allegheny N. F., Pittsburgh, Uniontown/U. S. 40 and Raccoon Creek S. P.) were enjoyable. Of course this is only small section of this elongated state. They also have some cool tunnels along the PA turnpike but expressways shouldn't count.

I really know nothing of the planning standards of the state, and save a few mentions about rampant sprawl in other states, did not weigh this heavily. Of course, if I was to see some of the crap that I see around St. Louis or Chicago, then perhaps I would give PA a slightly lower grade.

If what you say is true about ripping down National Register Properties then that is indeed a huge black mark on behalf of the state.

Michigan has deficits???

Which Bois Blanc are you speaking of, the one in Detroit is actually in Ontario. If you mean the one in Lac Huron, thats cool. Say hi to my cousin Joe, he has an office next to the Ferry in Cheboygan!

It was the big Bois Blanc Island up there in Lake Huron way in the north of the L. P. Awesome place, and a perfect counterbalance to the overcrowded, yet still wonderful Mackinac. I would certainly visit there again.

Can you're Cousin Joe give me a discount on the ferry?

[Budgie]

We were in St. Charles last year and rode part of the Katy Trail.

Jaxspra and I stumbled along this very riverfront one Sunday morning. Dood, I had to pee.

Jaxspra will sing the praises of the Katy Trail and will likely be confused by your rating.

[jmello]

The only area I was in was Matinuck, plus the main road from the Connecticut border leading to it (I don't remember the route number.) It seemed Ok, but a little sterlile. I saw a bunch of beach cottages there but I can't remember if they were just modernized old cottages or brand new ones. After all, it was almost fifteen years ago I was there, another dimention of time. If the cottages were old I will give them credit for retaining them rather than replacing them with McMansions. But I suspect a lot was lost in the 1938 Hurricane.

Matunuck is a working class beach resort primarily composed of trailers and 1940s-50s cottages. Next time you are there, check out Newport, Wakefield, Wickford, Pawtucket, Bristol, Warren and Providence. They all have intact historic downtowns. But, keep in mind, Rhode Island is the second most densely populated state in the union. Don't expect Vermont.

I forgot to add one planning tid-bit: RI requires horizontal and vertical concurrency.

[hilldweller]

I will assign a letter grade to each state based on the following criteria: Recreational opportunities, physical terrain, culture, general affordability, political leanings and growth. (States that are growing too fast or are too red get lower grades in my book)

Florida: C-. My worst state. Too many overblown, Disneyfied hellholes like Daytona Beach, Orlando and Miami. This state is going to suck America dry if another big hurricane wipes out all those $10 Milllion McMansions along the coast and these people's sense of entitlement makes me sick. Key West gets an A though.

Florida draws somewhere like 57 billion dollars a year in tourism, far and away more than any other state. I guess it depends on what recreation opportunities you prefer but Florida's fishing and golf are awesome and there are great state parks/campgrounds. There is more fun to be had in Orlando and Miami than in most of the states on your list. Disneyfied? Disney doesn't even define Orlando (which has a kick-ass downtown), much less a world-class city like Miami.

[DetroitPlanner]

Can you're Cousin Joe give me a discount on the ferry?

Sorry, He don't work for the Ferry, but his office is on the Black River!

[Zoning Goddess]

Florida draws somewhere like 57 billion dollars a year in tourism, far and away more than any other state. I guess it depends on what recreation opportunities you prefer but Florida's fishing and golf are awesome and there are great state parks/campgrounds. There is more fun to be had in Orlando and Miami than in most of the states on your list. Disneyfied? Disney doesn't even define Orlando (which has a kick-ass downtown), much less a world-class city like Miami.

Well-said. Why doesn't South Carolina get downgraded because of the existence of Myrtle Beach? There are plenty of states with tacky tourist waterfronts. Florida is much more than the Disney corridor. And Key West is a s*it hole. Overpriced, totally touristy. Not a place I care to visit anymore. You wanna go there, you are a sucker! (They don't even have a good beach!) Visit the rest of the Keys! Everytime somebody on here slams Florida, well, they've only been to the tourist places (and every state has those!) so I get defensive, it is just sooo not fair to rate a state on a few square miles of tackiness.

[Richmond Jake]

California: B-. Overrated, but nice parks in the north. If I were to divide the state in two I would give the north half an A- and the south half a C-

I get the sense you haven't spent much time in California and haven't seen the entire state.

Based on your criteria....
Recreational opportunities: unparalleled. Name it. It's there....camping, surfing, snow skiing, golf...all on a long weekend.
Terrain: Mt. Whitney to Death Valley to Mt. Shasta to the Central Valley to the Mojave Desert to the most beautiful coastline in the world.
Culture: As diverse as it comes.
General affordability: Got me on that one.
Political leanings: The bleeding edge.
Growth: And your point is?

And you give it a B-. You wanna share some of that crack with the rest of us?

[Planit]

Might want to re-evaluate South Carolina. Charleston - nice; Myrlte Beach - yuk.

[kovacs]

"Might want to re-evaluate South Carolina."

Might want to reevaluate the entire thread. I like planning and generally like planners but sometimes this liberal bias creeps a little too far for my comfort. Are there any free-market planners out there? Anyone?

[jmello]

Might want to reevaluate the entire thread. I like planning and generally like planners but sometimes this liberal bias creeps a little too far for my comfort. Are there any free-market planners out there? Anyone?

The thread is really nothing more than an opinion.

I consider myself a free-market planner, especially when it comes to the provision of infrastructure and zoning and parking requirements.

[cololi]

It's just SAC's opinions. I am sure we would all rank them differently. I haven't been to all of them so couldn't rank them all, and certainly wouldn't put politics high on the ranking list (I am a bleeding heart liberal in the furnace of conservativism)

I do agree on some of the rankings, and not on some of the others.

I do think CA has to be ranked pretty high based on SAC's criteria. There really isn't a recreational activity that you can not do in CA.

[gicarto]

Connecticut: B-. Nice small towns and forested terrain are giving way to way too much suburban growth. A blue state to be sure, but one populated by "limosine liberals"

What is a limosine liberal?

[Tranplanner]

What is a limosine liberal?

A liberal who has more money than SAC does...

[Jaxspra]

Jaxspra and I stumbled along this very riverfront one Sunday morning. Dood, I had to pee.

Jaxspra will sing the praises of the Katy Trail and will likely be confused by your rating.

I can see my office in your pics. The street that you see in those pics is North Main Street, that riverfront and that street are the primary focus of my job. It is authentic, beautiful, somewhat corrupt, and makes me proud f my job. All of Missouri? I am not sure how I would rate it, I am biased it's my home.
Its nice to see those pics, it shows some of the beauty outside of downtown STL. Beyond this area, there are some of the most beautiful places in southwest Missouri and throughout the state...glad you likde St. Chuck, the summers are tough here!!