Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 26 to 36 of 36

Thread: S.A.C. rates the states

  1. #26
    Cyburbian prana's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    SERA Architects-Portland
    Posts
    565
    Damn- you are a glass is half full person , aren't you? The lowest score I think was a C-. Way too generous in my opinion but that's cool.

    I'll have to read all of the reasoning later as I just scanned the scores.

    The cost of living in Colorado really isn't that bad compared to much of the US, especially when you factor in the environment.
    "You can measure the health of a city by the vitality and energy of its streets and public open spaces.-- William H. Whyte..

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered
    Jan 2004
    Location
    New Haven + Amherst
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally posted by Super Amputee Cat View post

    Connecticut: B-. Nice small towns and forested terrain are giving way to way too much suburban growth. A blue state to be sure, but one populated by "limosine liberals"
    While I agree that you hit the most important points, it should be noted that the CT is also home to 5 cities with populations over 100,000 (Bridgeport, New Haven, Hartford, Stamford, Waterbury) which are collectively home to 600,000+ people who differ vastly in demographics from there neighbors in the suburban majority.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    Well-said. Why doesn't South Carolina get downgraded because of the existence of Myrtle Beach? There are plenty of states with tacky tourist waterfronts. Florida is much more than the Disney corridor. And Key West is a s*it hole. Overpriced, totally touristy. Not a place I care to visit anymore. You wanna go there, you are a sucker! (They don't even have a good beach!) Visit the rest of the Keys! Everytime somebody on here slams Florida, well, they've only been to the tourist places (and every state has those!) so I get defensive, it is just sooo not fair to rate a state on a few square miles of tackiness.
    If this were 1990, I would probably have given Florida at least a B-, and even higher the further back you go. (But then again, this would apply to all the states). I've seen too many places go to Hell in the past 15 years and seen to many Hurricane's that I will have to pay for. You're probably right about Key West. I was last there in 1993, which is ancient history.

    I have been to Orlando (Disney), Daytona Beach, Tallahasee, Miami Beach, Miami, Homestead, the Keys, Ft. Meyers, Naples, Marco Island, Sanibel Island, Seaside, Silver Spring and St. Augustine, plus a few points in between those places. I also visited Busch Gardens in Tampa and drove though the Everglades on I-75 and U. S. 41. Not too impressed with any of it except the Keys and St. Augustine. Marco Island was especially bad. But Busch Gardens was pretty cool too I guess. Miami Beach had some nice Art Deco hotels, but I wonder how many of them have been torn down since I was there in 1991? And could I afford to stay in one? Absolutely not.

    I went to Florida five times between 1990 and 1993 including three years in a row to Daytona Beach. Just the changes in that place between 1990 and 1992 were mind-boggling and depressing. Ranch style beach houses south of town had been replaced with huge 20 story condos. 1992 was fifteen years ago. I don't even know what that place looks like now.

    I also visisted Florida in 1998, which is the last time I was there. My wife took the kids there in 2004 and 2006 to Daytona Beach with her parents and I absolutely wanted no part of it.

    So while certainly there are some places that would get As and Bs, they are weighed down heavily by all the D and F places like Marco Island, Daytona Beach and Orlando. But if there is some place in the state that isn't a tourist trap and is affordable, I'd be happy to hear about it.

    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    I get the sense you haven't spent much time in California and haven't seen the entire state.

    Based on your criteria....
    Recreational opportunities: unparalleled. Name it. It's there....camping, surfing, snow skiing, golf...all on a long weekend.
    Terrain: Mt. Whitney to Death Valley to Mt. Shasta to the Central Valley to the Mojave Desert to the most beautiful coastline in the world.
    Culture: As diverse as it comes.
    General affordability: Got me on that one.
    Political leanings: The bleeding edge.
    Growth: And your point is?

    And you give it a B-. You wanna share some of that crack with the rest of us?
    I like California a lot more than I used to. 20 years ago I would have probably rated it a D.!

    I've never been to Southern California except just to say I was in the state when we drove west on the interstate from Las Vegas. I guess I'm basing a lot of my opinion on my bias against L. A.

    But as I mentioned and as you agree with, affordability is a big factor in my gradings.

    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    Might want to re-evaluate South Carolina. Charleston - nice; Myrlte Beach - yuk.
    I forgot about Myrtle Beach. Even worse - Hilton Head. Eck!

    But I just can't see dropping S. C. below a B-

    Quote Originally posted by cololi View post
    It's just SAC's opinions. I am sure we would all rank them differently. I haven't been to all of them so couldn't rank them all, and certainly wouldn't put politics high on the ranking list (I am a bleeding heart liberal in the furnace of conservativism)

    I do agree on some of the rankings, and not on some of the others.

    I do think CA has to be ranked pretty high based on SAC's criteria. There really isn't a recreational activity that you can not do in CA.
    Cololi is right. It's just my biased opinion. I hope anyone wasn't reading into it any more than that.

    Quote Originally posted by Tranplanner View post
    A liberal who has more money than SAC does...

    Heh. That would cover just about everyone.

    My definition of a limousine liberal is one whom may have voted the right way in the 2004 election and may live in a Victorian Mansion downtown and listen to NPR but has the same expensive tastes and insatiable appetite for material goods as those in the throwaway suburbs. Their high maintenance lifestyle plays a role in the destruction of the environment and helps to drive housing prices right through the roof.

    Yeah places like and Ann Arbor and Madison may be a nice place to visit, but just try and buy a house there. Why can't a place be progressive and affordable? I'm beginning to think no such place exists anywhere in America.

    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra View post
    I can see my office in your pics. The street that you see in those pics is North Main Street, that riverfront and that street are the primary focus of my job. It is authentic, beautiful, somewhat corrupt, and makes me proud f my job. All of Missouri? I am not sure how I would rate it, I am biased it's my home.
    Its nice to see those pics, it shows some of the beauty outside of downtown STL. Beyond this area, there are some of the most beautiful places in southwest Missouri and throughout the state...glad you likde St. Chuck, the summers are tough here!!

    Yeah we were there on the hottest day of the year: July 2. Didn't get to ride much as a result. Can't really complain though. We had a great time.

    Here's the entire album if you care to see it. http://drewsager.tripod.com/Sagerland/missouri5.html

    BTW, thanks for telling me about St. Charles, that "recommend me some places" vacation thread I wrote last year. Have you ever drove up Route 79 to Hannibal? What a great drive. Love those river towns!

    Quote Originally posted by prana View post
    Damn- you are a glass is half full person , aren't you? The lowest score I think was a C-. Way too generous in my opinion but that's cool.

    Believe me, I'm the last person you would call "glass is half full", but maybe in this case I was guilty of "grade inflation". Certainly if I were to grade on a curve, there must be Ds and Fs.

    It's just that I've been to all the Lower 48 and have found worthy places in all of them. Some just more than others.

    And my grades are by no means fixed and could change at any time. We visited Missouri and Iowa last year and no doubt my high grades of those two states reflect that great vacation. On the other hand, places like North Carolina and Florida continue to slide down the scale as I have not visited them in years and hear nothing but bad news (high home prices, Hurricanes (and me having to pay for it), sprawl, environmental destruction, etc).

    The cost of living in Colorado really isn't that bad compared to much of the US, especially when you factor in the environment.
    Well, it's one of my least visited states. Of the 48 states I've been to, it probably ranks 47th in terms of days spent there (More like minutes actually) I've only been down to the state line south of Laramie (just to say I was in Colorado) and years later down old U. S. 666 (before it was changed) east from Four Corners into Farmington, NM.

    My grade therefore is based almost entirely on my perception of the unaffordabily Boulder/Denver/Aspen, horror stories that I've heard about Greeley and the Neocon Hellhole that is Colorado Springs. Perhaps if I was was to spend a week in the mountains away from the ski resorts and James Dobson then I might give it a higher grade.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 21 Feb 2007 at 8:39 AM. Reason: sextuple reply !?!

  4. #29
         
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    3,519
    Those are some great shots of Main street. You have a photo of a building that wass under renovation at the time you took the shot, I need to go down to the street and take a photo of the building now that its completed, its perfect. Some of the buildings (St. Louis Bread Co.) are new structures, but even those seem to fit in pretty well. I see mostly pics from North Main Street, that is more of the business/office end of the street, a little further south is the more touristy district with quaint restaurants, a winery or two and much, much smaller structures.
    Nice pics, I am glad you liked the area, its finally growning on me 7 years later

    And Highway 79/Hannibal area is one that I have yet to get to....I need to get out that way and explore a bit, i think the kids might enjoy it as well. In the immediate vicinity (St. Charles) you can go down highway 94 (to the north) and get on a ferry that will take you across the river over into Illinois, and over in there is a lot of boating, swimming, etc....another area I am not too familiar with but an area that a lot of people from the area frequent each weekend.

  5. #30
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 1998
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,468
    Louisiana: B Only been to Lake Charles and Vidalia. Would have liked to have visited The Big Easy before Katrina.
    I'd lower this grade to a C- based on the huge coastal erosion problem in the state.
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  6. #31
    Cyburbian gicarto's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Jeffstantinople
    Posts
    267
    Quote Originally posted by Planderella View post
    I'd lower this grade to a C- based on the huge coastal erosion problem in the state.
    No offense but after living in New Orleans and Baton Rouge I would have to give Louisiana a D in terms of the way government operates (my yankee opinion). In terms of cultural resources, I give Louisiana an A-. The food is great and the music is great.
    Trying to get my grubby hands on as much stimulus money as I can.:D

  7. #32
    Cyburbian prana's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    SERA Architects-Portland
    Posts
    565
    So, we know SAC has been to all of the lower 48. I have also plus Hawaii.
    Anyone else? Just more curious than anything.

    I think grading all the states would be very difficult and certainly applaud the effort.
    Still need to find time to read more of the reasoning though.

    And in regards to the two pieces of Colorado that you have seen, while I love the 4 Corners area and despise most of the Colorado/Wyoming border, you have definitely not seen even 1% of what Colorado offers.

    Cheers
    "You can measure the health of a city by the vitality and energy of its streets and public open spaces.-- William H. Whyte..

  8. #33
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 1998
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,468
    Quote Originally posted by gicarto View post
    No offense but after living in New Orleans and Baton Rouge I would have to give Louisiana a D in terms of the way government operates (my yankee opinion). In terms of cultural resources, I give Louisiana an A-. The food is great and the music is great.
    None taken, and I agree with your assessment. There's not enough time in the day to talk about the political culture, particularly in a post-Katrina environment.
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  9. #34
    Cyburbian Howard Roark's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Where ever you go, there you are
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    I'd give Missouri a D. If you're a geologist, I could understand giving it a C-, with the Karst and all. So much potential. The Kansas City area is the high point of the state; if it stood alone, it would be a B+ or even an A- if it had better public transportation. The urban sprawl in St. Louis is frightening; on I-70 40 miles from downtown you'll still encounter subdivisions marketing to whites leaving North St. Louis County. Dysfunctional state politics, very redneck beyond KC/Columbia/St. Louis, and if you've ever driven down I-70, it's an unbroken succession of billboards from Illinois to Kansas, even in the most isolated rural areas. There's a reason why one of the names for a mullet is the "Missouri Compromise."
    As far as SAC criteria I would say the Confluence Greenway http://www.confluencegreenway.org/ is probably one of the most progressive park/trail initiatives in the country (and a good show of bi-state regionalism) that along with the spectacular views along the great river road in the Illinois side (I know it’s a different state) and the rolling hills southwest of St. Louis, make it a nice place despite the lack of major mountains or useable water feature (the rivers are limited)

    KC is a nice enough place, I think it sprawls just as bad (worse if you count the KS side) but lacks the texture, functionality (political and physical) and architectural richness that I would like to see.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 21 Feb 2007 at 7:49 PM. Reason: fixed quote tag
    She has been a bad girl, she is like a chemical, though you try and stop it she is like a narcotic.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally posted by Jaxspra View post
    Those are some great shots of Main street. You have a photo of a building that wass under renovation at the time you took the shot, I need to go down to the street and take a photo of the building now that its completed, its perfect. Some of the buildings (St. Louis Bread Co.) are new structures, but even those seem to fit in pretty well. I see mostly pics from North Main Street, that is more of the business/office end of the street, a little further south is the more touristy district with quaint restaurants, a winery or two and much, much smaller structures.
    Nice pics, I am glad you liked the area, its finally growning on me 7 years later
    We actually went to St. Louis Bread company for lunch. I had no idea until then it was Panera Bread. Now usually, I usually stay away from the chains when I'm on vacation, but in this case, it's local, isn't it? Plus it was downtown and not off the highway somewhere, which is a plus.

    It ended up being a real blessing. Still worried about my son overheating from the hot bike ride, we just sat in the wonderful air-conditioned store for a while and cooled off while eating bagels with cream cheese.

    Those pictures of them riding on the downtown sidewalks were taken after lunch so the heat didn't effect them that bad after all.

    And Highway 79/Hannibal area is one that I have yet to get to....I need to get out that way and explore a bit, i think the kids might enjoy it as well. In the immediate vicinity (St. Charles) you can go down highway 94 (to the north) and get on a ferry that will take you across the river over into Illinois, and over in there is a lot of boating, swimming, etc....another area I am not too familiar with but an area that a lot of people from the area frequent each weekend.
    Those last half-dozen or so pictures are on Route 79, including the tiny hamlet of Annada and the sleepy town of Louisiana. (The second to last one shows our tan van and pop-up camper). I actually liked Louisiana even better than St. Charles. I'm fascinated by dying river towns. If you haven't been up there I would highy recommend seeing it.

    Quote Originally posted by prana View post
    So, we know SAC has been to all of the lower 48. I have also plus Hawaii.
    Anyone else? Just more curious than anything.

    I think grading all the states would be very difficult and certainly applaud the effort.
    Still need to find time to read more of the reasoning though.

    And in regards to the two pieces of Colorado that you have seen, while I love the 4 Corners area and despise most of the Colorado/Wyoming border, you have definitely not seen even 1% of what Colorado offers.

    Cheers
    Yeah, I've been to all the states but Hawaii and Alaska. I finally got Arkansas and Mississippi in 2003. I really don't see myself ever getting Hawaii; too expensive and too far away just to justify getting another state. I'd rather spend that money racking up the provinces of Canada, which I am woefully lacking in (I've only been to Ontario).

    I would also spend it to visit the parts of states that I have visited, such as Colorado, which I have only seen a nominal part of. Other states I have barely visited include Idaho, Washington, New Mexico, North Dakota, Massachusetts and Rhode Island. I really haven't spent a whole lot of time in Alabama or Louisiana aslo. Plus it's been so long since I've been to northern New England that it's definately worth another visit for a fresh perspective (though I would be careful not to tread near the places I visited in 1977 for fear of obliterating those fragile memories)
    Last edited by Super Amputee Cat; 21 Feb 2007 at 9:31 PM.

  11. #36
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Northwestern Ohio
    Posts
    9,327

    Bear Rates A Few States

    Following in SAC's footsteps.....

    Michigan.....My favorite state, perhaps because I know so much about it and have traveled through most of the state....spending considerable time in some of the state's nicer spots. Downtowns I like include Marquette, Kalamazoo (thanx to The Stans, and Ann Arbor. Metro Detroit is fun to explore.

    Ohio.....My home state.....good people, friendly cities and tons of great small towns. One of my favorite spots in Ohio: Approaching the tiny community of Idaho, Ohio.....in the hilly southeastern portion of the state. Cleveland's Cuyahoga Valley (those industrial mills are awesome!) is very interesting.

    Minnesota.....This Bear has been to Minnesota a number of times. A true "sportsmen's paradise". The Twin Cities are awesome.

    Pennsylvania (western PA and Pittsburgh) are cool. The mountains of West Virginia are awesome. Indiana's history is fun. Illinois, especially Chicago, is great. Wisconsin is so much like Michigan it is scary.

    Obviously, the Great Lakes are tops for me.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

+ Reply to thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

More at Cyburbia

  1. Acceptance rates 2013
    Student Commons
    Replies: 1
    Last post: 11 Jul 2013, 1:12 PM
  2. Replies: 17
    Last post: 21 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM
  3. Trip generation rates
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 8
    Last post: 03 Dec 2007, 12:33 PM
  4. GIS Consultant Fees/Rates.
    Career Development and Advice
    Replies: 0
    Last post: 07 Sep 2006, 8:54 PM
  5. Planner charge-out rates
    Make No Small Plans
    Replies: 8
    Last post: 02 Feb 2003, 4:02 PM